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Defence playing is very hard ???

 
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3/20/2013 12:37:10   
santonik
Member

Yes i noticed some class can attack Every turn and can doing strong debuff. Then they doing even more damage.

Now this game is too hard to play defencive ways. because bot/buff cost that 1 turn.

Attackers doing more critical than defence player. Why? Because attacker can attack every turn. Defencive player need buff himself and some times heal
too. Critical happen very often even support is equal.

What about healing, that cost 1 turn and attacker can attack and gain rage.

And who gain faster that rage. Ofcourse that attacker player. normally 3-5 turns. defence player gain normally 4-7.

1 critical change too much 1 battle + rage. Yes i remember criticals making against tank, rage too. but those is extreme effecitve now.
Those is better than (some) max lvl skills.

I dont mean rage+skill. I mean pure skill. When you doing critical that not give you rage, that is good. 1 thing i think myself. I see very much criticals. I dont believe cores not doing that alone.

I know buffs is bigger than depuff rigth? What about that assault bot. Cost 1 turn and take away only 65% that debuff. (very weak my opinion)

Yes some says that bot is fine now but that needing buff. 70-75% + (5-10) healt when using bot special.(my opinion and suggestion)

And what about those energy training moves then. 1 strong emp( normally 1-4 lvl taking 0ver 32-40) can destroy yours build totally. Tech mage Assimilation
is too madness now.

That Infernal android, that is MAD bot in 10+ round. No matter what yours defence is. That kill too easy even Ultratank (+50 defence). Pure damage is too
high those rounds. (i mean beam move)

I nerfs debuffs skills expect intimitade.Because Malf/Smoke MULTI ways weaken enemy and no ways evaded. But Intimitade can easyly totally evaded.(bot, aux, skill move).

Smoke works TOO many ways. Rising hit% , take out some dex(-40 dex is too much),rising attacker blocks changes.Lower defence players block change. And reduce some skills and you gain rage.

Malf works TOO many ways. Rising attacker deflection changes, take out energy defence( -40tech is too much),Lover defencive player deflection change, reduce some skills and gain rage.

Those Skills kill anybody VERY easy and FAST.

This game need help to defence playing some class

Tell yours opinion freely i dont bite (so strong)








Epic  Post #: 1
3/20/2013 12:57:42   
Ranloth
Banned


Rage is against tanks, not Criticals. They are right to get more rage when they attack you, especially if you have tank defences. Rage was made to get through tanks so you cannot minimise their damage and still deal good damage, without them being able to counter it.

quote:

Now this game is too hard to play defencive ways. because bot/buff cost that 1 turn.

Attackers doing more critical than defence player. Why? Because attacker can attack every turn. Defencive player need buff himself and some times heal
too. Critical happen very often even support is equal.

Is it really hard? I can do it well. Perhaps it depends on a class? But of course it takes a turn, but buffers are stronger than nerfers when you use them hence why they take a turn. Although, they won't be stronger if you don't intend to train them to an adequate level.
In terms of Crits, no, attackers don't have more crits than defensive players. It's either they have the cores or higher Support. Nothing else. And sure, they need to heal but glass-cannons can do so to, just isn't worth it - they are called so because they deal high damage and take in high damage, so they are easy to beat. If Crits are so powerful then get Nanosteel Core. They ignored 50% defence and it was bumped down to 45% defence & lower damage boost on Crits compared to before. With Nano, you can get that to 37% instead which does make a difference.
quote:

know buffs is bigger than depuff rigth? What about that assault bot. Cost 1 turn and take away only 65% that debuff. (very weak my opinion)

Make it higher and what will be the purpose of using Malf/Smoke/Intimidate. 80% rendered them useless, likewise with Azrael Bot which did the same (80%) and was put down to 65%. Some of the effect SHOULD remain, and it's your choice whether you want to use - so called - "weak" Bot or not. If it's weak then change the Bot to a different one? >.> Devs put it at 65% and it will remain at such. How about you use Intimidate more and lower their Primary + Gun damage instead? And then they use Assault Bot to debuff 80% of it (prior to the change), how would you feel? Surely 65% is better so Intimidate still does something, no?
quote:

And what about those energy training moves then. 1 strong emp( normally 1-4 lvl taking 0ver 32-40) can destroy yours build totally.

This is why you have Atom Smasher.. Sure it's blockable but has lower EP cost to compensate for it. Tip: Don't rely on Energy and have strategy in case they do drain it.

Hmm. You can evade Intimidate, is that so? Aux, Bot and a Core, you say? FYI, damaging cores rely on Strength so cross that out. Aux has cooldown after an use and so does the Bot. Skills remain, but you can do exactly the same. If they are going to use a skill so Intimidate won't take much of a toll on them then you can use Atom and stop them from doing so.
If Smoke and Malf have such impact then try to get tankier build AND use Assault Bot. You think 65% reduction is nothing yet players still use it. Would you rather have -40 Tech/Dex or -14 instead? Surely the latter because you will take in less damage. Furthermore, if they kill you fast then drain their EP or use Assault Bot to reduce the impact or make them unable to use it. Intimidate of yours can also make a difference, but using it on, say, Support build is pointless so save the Energy for something else. Your choice to make out from what you have, not ours.

"This game need help to defence playing some class" - sure, because players aren't already tanks and doing well. Intimidate is a defensive debuff since you will take in less damage. If they don't use Strength then use Assault Bot to debuff possible debuffs. You can always invest in Blood Commander + have a tank build so turn loss won't have as big impact and you can get some HP back when you use it.
AQ Epic  Post #: 2
3/20/2013 12:58:44   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


Two problems with playing defensively.

1. Debuffs pretty much all apply on a damaging attack. This means you could have 40+ resistance, I could use Malf, get some damage and also rage while you lose out on defenses for the next attack. You can either take that or use a shield to just further help rage gain.

2. There's no incentive to making a battle last long. You get no extra damage, you get nothing. If there were a way to promote a longer battle, via specials like IA or perhaps a Stamina stat, where dex and tech improve it, that could lower damage or rage gain or even health, then perhaps we wouldn't see offense builds running rampant all the time.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 3
3/20/2013 13:24:06   
Drianx
Member

You cannot play defensively all the match and still win. At some point you have to turn offensive and outdamage the opponent.

So, there are builds which deal high damage for first 5 turns and then are weak. And there are also builds that tank good for the first 5 turns and then deliver high damage - using a maxed Surgical Strike or Infernal Android for example.

In the end it is all a matter of how a build performs over a specified number of turns.
AQW Epic  Post #: 4
3/20/2013 13:32:08   
santonik
Member

What about that assault bot. Cost 1 turn and take away only 65% that debuff. (very weak my opinion)

Yes some says that bot is fine now but that needing buff. 70-75% + (5-10) healt when using bot special.(my opinion and suggestion)
Epic  Post #: 5
3/20/2013 14:31:45   
Mother1
Member

The bot used to have 80% debuffing ability but they nerfed it because it effect was too useful. it made debuffs almost worthless and back in old days it made fighting jugs near impossible since jugs used to have this bot almost all the time. The point of this nerf was to make debuffs somewhat useful again while having this bot still be useful.
Epic  Post #: 6
3/20/2013 17:54:47   
santonik
Member

I remember when assault bot is 80% special. It work tanks pretty well (beta time, if i remember rigth) That time mercenary rules.
Then coming that nerf 65%. All mercenary gone.
Now we are omega time when almoust eveything is nerfed (stat ,healt,energy)
Debuff is almoust same(very little nerf)
Now is cores what can do extra damage too

What about that assault bot. Cost 1 turn and take away only 65% that debuff. (very weak my opinion)

Yes some says that bot is fine now but that needing buff. 70-75% + (5-10) healt when using bot special.(my opinion and suggestion)



This is other thing

Attackers doing more critical than defence player. Why? Because attacker can attack every turn. Defencive player need buff himself and some times heal
too. Critical happen very often even support is equal.

example. Attacker can put debuff (smoke/malf) the opponent that making enemy very weak.Defencive player must heal or buff someway.That heal or buff taking always 1 turn out. And if defencive player healing after buff that give 2 free turn attackers what they can do critical. This is what i mean attackers advanced.

And i dont talk 1 class now i talk every class now.

Defence playing is very hard ???

Epic  Post #: 7
3/21/2013 6:08:18   
nooooooooob
Member
 

trans remove that annoying blue color and for satonik why did you spell depuff on purpose?
Post #: 8
3/21/2013 8:11:35   
Ranloth
Banned


quote:

Attacker can put debuff (smoke/malf) the opponent that making enemy very weak.Defencive player must heal or buff someway.That heal or buff taking always 1 turn out. And if defencive player healing after buff that give 2 free turn attackers what they can do critical. This is what i mean attackers advanced.

So you expect to debuff Smoke/Malf and attack? <_< You lose one turn, they start first from what you've said so raise your Support. If you don't wanna lose that turn, don't debuff Smoke/Malf nor Heal? Smoke is likely to be used with Strength build so use Intimidate and then debuff Smoke. Malf is more by Casters and Str CHs too, therefore Intimidate CHs and debuff Malf if Casters (or/and drain EP with Atom so they won't do much damage).

quote:

And i dont talk 1 class now i talk every class now.

Defence playing is very hard ???

No it isn't. It's probably just you. Crits happen to everyone. Rage is designed to crush tanks. If you find Crits too much then Nanosteel Core is for you. Raise your HP instead at cost of damage or some defence, etc.
AQ Epic  Post #: 9
3/21/2013 21:57:55   
Wootz
Member

Well, I can only give an example of a Cyber Hunter tank.
You got two options:
a) tank both Defense and Resistance, via this option you can get 28-34+10 in both defenses, which can include even some points going into HP
b) go low on Dexterity, raise that Technology, via this build you get a modest Defense, and absolutly high Resistance of atleast 30-36+10 which results in a 16-20 Bot damage boost.

However, the problem with tanking as a CH, is that if you want to have any high defenses or minimum offense, you sacrifice all of the stats, and your Health becomes 72, aka base level cap Health. Now, that wouldn't be a problem if defenses could sustain those attacks thrown at you. Players HP is drained very quickly. And, yeah a Field medic can fix that, but you barerly scrape the Energy for a level 1-3 FM because you lack skill points.

So, thats it about tanking as a Cyber Hunter. Horrible build, can get a good percentage which depends on what you're up againts, most strategy used there, any burst damage build owns ya 80% of the time, just because there is no passive Health regen.
In short, hard but has potencial.
AQW Epic  Post #: 10
3/22/2013 0:59:22   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


Just saying something, playing defensively requires the most skill/strategy, so I favor it. If you don't like to think as much when playing, or you just want to play casually with less strategy and more carefree decisions, then playing with less defensive builds such as strength merc is more for you. To make a point, since there's diminishing return, the tankier you are, the less resistance/defense will be removed when you are debuffed. Also applies to intimidate, making it almost useless when used against strength builds.
Epic  Post #: 11
3/22/2013 7:24:41   
nooooooooob
Member
 

resistance should be removed in the next phase and put it all on defense
Post #: 12
3/22/2013 20:48:42   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


@nooooooooob: Try to at least give some reasoning for your suggestions; so far you've been contributing minimal amounts if not at all to this section of the forums with your unexplained suggestions which are typically, and obviously inapplicable.
Epic  Post #: 13
3/24/2013 21:18:39   
Trifire
Member
 

As a mercenary, it is hard to be a tank these days because mercenaries do not have a shield or reroute. Mercenaries do control rage, however, but it is very hard to gain rage if you play defensively. The only viable builds for a merc that I can think of is a str merc, a support merc, and a 5 focus merc.
Post #: 14
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