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RE: =OS= Beta Release Thread 110 - READ THE FIRST POST

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4/2/2013 0:12:41   
Shards Superior
Member

@The Jop... Hmm... I consider Mark to be a DaT (damage after time) instead of a true DoT.
While no doubt Defensive types use more efficient attacks than do offensive attacks, I believe there are 2 main advantages in offensive over defensive.
1. Faster kills mean that the opponent doesn't have enough time to damage you significantly enough to require a shield. YOU control the battle, not the opponent.
2. Easier to level. It's easier to level when your 606 battles are much shorter.

And, higher levels have eaiser battles because the monster AI tries to do damage early, while you charge. At lower levels, the AI may damage you enough to secure a win. However, at higher levels, the extra mana shows.

Defensive: The extra HP gives you time to start your DoT and to shield without worrying as much about mana.
Offensive: The extra HP means you can have time to ensure that 5 mana per turn, which becomes vital.
Regardless of playstyle, battles are always easier as you level.


Shadow offensive is better than shadow defensive because, while the poison have higher damage, most Shadow characters have no shield to back up the time needed for Poison or Mark.
Shadow offensive, on the other hand, has Sacrifice, Life Drain (with its own sort of defense) and lots and lots of 5 damage cards.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 676
4/2/2013 0:16:09   
Megadragonknight
Member

@Jmagician
There won't be character inventory limit confirmed by Rolith. So, the "Gotta possess them all" theme is endless.
Post #: 677
4/2/2013 0:29:39   
The Jop
Member

@Shards
Life Drain isn't something you can use often because of its high energy cost, and 5 damage doesn't count for as much at higher levels (over 15, I mean in this case). If you use too many Sacrifices the opponent gains the upper hand. Defensive character types are much more reliable because they don't have to risk health with Sacrifice or energy with Life Drain. An example of a potentially defensive shadow character is Lich, who has 3 DoTs and 3 shields. Void Knight also has 3 DoTs but only two shields in his deck.

@Dragonknight
Yes, but I don't like the high cost of Void Reflection.

< Message edited by The Jop -- 4/2/2013 0:33:53 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 678
4/2/2013 0:33:23   
Megadragonknight
Member

Darkondrago is another defensive shadow character.
Post #: 679
4/2/2013 0:36:07   
The Jop
Member

It's a lot of fun beating things with Goblin. Now that I don't have to catch anything I can use all the characters I've neglected.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 680
4/2/2013 1:00:35   
Shards Superior
Member

@TheJop: Defensive characters are so much slower. Offensive types might risk HP through Sacrifice, but aren't Defensive types risking HP though basically sitting and waiting for DoTs to kill the enemy?
It goes back to the idea of control in a battle. Defensive characters let the opponent control the battle, with a bit of delayed damage. If the opponent attacks furiously, you've got no choice but to use more mana on defending yourself (given the choice of 2 shields or a poison when the opponent is very offensive, which would you choose?). If the opponent decides to turtle it out, you have to wait to break his (or probably her) shield.

But offensive characters... they control the battle. The AI isn't good enough, but you can definitely see it in PvP.

When I PvP with Pyre Witch (Master), people are more likely to shield than to try and deal damage, especially once I start hitting 15, 20 damage every 2 turns.
However, when I PvP with Barbarian (Master), I feel like a poor turtle, having to sit there and take it.
I still win the same, but it's different. When playing Barbarian, which is probably one of THE defensive classes, I don't feel like I win on my own terms. Rather, I win when my DaTs finish, or I draw Ice Orb.
With Pyre Witch, it isn't the same. While I still have to draw the Fireballs and such, there's a different sense when I burn through 10 shield in one turn for game.

Therefore, I think it really is just matter of personal preference.

I haven't really taken any of my Shadow characters into PvP yet, but I'll let you know.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 681
4/2/2013 1:04:04   
BJEBLE
Member

Also, I don't think there IS a defensive Fire character. Apprentice Witch is probably the closest, with 3 shields.
EDIT: I like offensive characters usually, but with Shadow I prefer defensive because of those DoTs.

< Message edited by BJEBLE -- 4/2/2013 1:06:47 >
DF  Post #: 682
4/2/2013 1:07:17   
The Jop
Member

@Shards
I'm able to get at least one DoT and one shield up every turn, which is basically like more health because you can't kill someone without breaking through their shield/with only unblockables at higher levels. I've used these characters before, and shields are much more reliable and energy efficient than things like life drain, at a low cost of 3 energy. Shadow just isn't made for offense the same way elements like energy and fire are.

< Message edited by The Jop -- 4/2/2013 1:09:39 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 683
4/2/2013 1:08:47   
BJEBLE
Member

Until they fix Life Drain with a cost of 6 instead. Then people will take it more seriously.
DF  Post #: 684
4/2/2013 1:10:32   
The Jop
Member

They may not fix it though, maybe it's there to balance the low costs of shadow's DoTs.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 685
4/2/2013 1:15:07   
BJEBLE
Member

DoTs have a low cost because they aren't immediate, that's why Burn has the 2:1 ratio like other DoTs.Besides, bad cards shouldn't balance out OP cards, they should all in the middle.And DoTs aren't OP.
DF  Post #: 686
4/2/2013 1:16:07   
Lemonus
Member

It really depends, if you're fighting against Earth or Ice, ShadOff is the way to go but for nasty dealers like Fire and Light, ShaDef is the way to go. That's what it is for me anyway.

@above Burn does 2 for 3
DF AQW  Post #: 687
4/2/2013 1:19:25   
The Jop
Member

@BJEBLE
Sorry, I meant to say a low cost for DoTs compared to things like Storm and Cat Reflex.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 688
4/2/2013 1:22:19   
Lemonus
Member

IMO Life Drain should be 7
4 for the 5
3 for the heal
DF AQW  Post #: 689
4/2/2013 1:34:50   
Megadragonknight
Member

Having Life Drain cost 6-7 instead of 8 is reasonable. I can't say the same for Void Reflection since its cost is really high.
Post #: 690
4/2/2013 1:35:33   
BJEBLE
Member

No Storm is fine because it has a really short duration, so it's more like a double attack than anything else. An Cat Reflex is weak.
@Lemonus then it would be 7 charges+1 health cost for Life Drain and Sacrifice.
EDT: Good night, I will be seeing some of you on the forums or in-game, in about 8 hours on the forums, or in-game.

< Message edited by BJEBLE -- 4/2/2013 1:37:01 >
DF  Post #: 691
4/2/2013 1:38:17   
Lemonus
Member

Void Ref is like 2 CS -1 Energy cost...

and Cat Refx is basically a delayed 5 attack increased by 1 in both cost and power.
DF AQW  Post #: 692
4/2/2013 2:57:04   
megakyle777
Member

I wonder if Nulgath read any of the complaints about the hands...

Anyway, gonna train up my Ogre while looking for that Maiden, then go get a second one for the quest.
DF  Post #: 693
4/2/2013 3:47:00   
Megadragonknight
Member

@megakyle
We haven't seen Nulgath posting new comment on the forum since he must be evry busy with the Oversoul Beta Revolution and other stuff. But I think he did read the forumites' complaint secretly but doesn't have time to reply back. Hope Nulgath will respond or take in consideration and implement ghost hand instead of white hand.
Post #: 694
4/2/2013 7:52:37   
Shards Superior
Member

Defensive, slow cards are invariably for efficient.
But defensive Shadow types are at least twice as hard to train. Starting at lower levels, defensive charatcters have a more difficult time winning due to low HP. They don't have time to finish the DoT's course. And the battles that they do win take much longer.
Perhaps you'e more patient than I am, but I favor offensive over defensive.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 695
4/2/2013 9:21:21   
Lemonus
Member

Someone give me an Offensive Shadow char to train that isn't Rev, Vampy or the bosses! I already have the deffy ones. Most preferably Non-SG that isn't Shadow Pikey, but it varies.

< Message edited by Lemonus -- 4/2/2013 9:22:00 >
DF AQW  Post #: 696
4/2/2013 9:22:53   
Vagaran
Member

@Lemonus
Black Dragon or DD!

Non SG?

...

Shadow Priest or Poison Drake!

< Message edited by vagaran123 -- 4/2/2013 9:23:29 >
AQ DF MQ Epic  Post #: 697
4/2/2013 9:26:18   
Megadragonknight
Member

Honestly, this discussion about Shadow offense or defence is quite pointless since everyone have their own style/skill/interest/knowledge of playing in offense or defence.
Post #: 698
4/2/2013 9:26:26   
jack antler
Member

Hey guys, I don't want to sound like a nub, always asking these questions, but please bear with me as I am a new player of OS. So, which character is better, Pumpkin Lord or VK? I have both, but I want to see the pros and cons of each. So far, I think that PL is a tad bit better because of it's offensive and defensive capabilities. What do you think?
AQW  Post #: 699
4/2/2013 9:26:30   
Lemonus
Member

@vagaran If you're gonna suggest something to someone, assume it isn't BD nor VR.

AND DD IS CLEARLY DEFFY AS EVERYONE HAS ESTABLISHED THAT FACT
3x Block
2x Void Ref
2x Poison
2x MoD

PD IS DEFFY ALSO *coughNeutra-Hidecough*

And also, as I said, the Non-SG part is optional.

@above VK and PL are COMPLETELY different characters! You can't compare them D;

< Message edited by Lemonus -- 4/2/2013 9:30:28 >
DF AQW  Post #: 700
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