It should be possible to get a +90% winrate


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4/12/2013 19:18:06

Midnightsoul
Member

Guys, it's absolutely ridiculous how it's no longer possible to get high winrate. Honestly, it's because so many PvP factors nowadays kinda hides away who is actually skilled and smart versus the ones who don't know how to think.

I mostly blame luck and the lack of stats.
Yes, I know the decreased stats was part of Omega, but I barely know anyone who asked for that. Even I didn't like the decreased stats because the big amount stats showed the build diversity between others.

Luck, it may not be as bad as it seems, but it is too effective when it happens. Even first strike basically determines the outcome of the winner. There has to be a way where it can happen without making it too big of a deal to winning.

Finally, cores. There's too little of them.
Here are some rough ideas of what I'd like to see.
There are two passive cores I would like to see for armors.

Regrowth
30% of your armor points will heal you every turn. (So basically, if you're a level 35 with a +10 armor, you will get 3 health per turn)

Reenergize
30% of your armor points will be added to your energy pool every turn. (Same concept)

Anyways, my argument is...
"A decent winrate should only be accessible for people who like to play it smart."

Now, you guys may complain it can cause OPedness, but remember, you can only equip one passive armor core and also, if it can apply for everyone, not only will it make keep the balance, but I think it can also make things more strategical.

< Message edited by Midnightsoul -- 4/12/2013 19:28:29 >

DF

Post #: 1

4/13/2013 0:23:21

King FrostLich
Member

You know what needs to be done? Get rid of the valentines promo. That ends it.

Post #: 2

4/13/2013 1:15:56

Exploding Penguin
Moderator

@King FrostLich: I don't know what your view on it is, but I feel that it actually requires skill to use in many build types. In lots of focus builds, you must time it correctly so that the opponent wastes rage, particularly if you have a high block rate. Unfortunately, lots of less-experienced players abuse it with BH/TM and deadly aim or smoke, making it lose much of its tactical appeal.

I agree that it should be possible to get a 90-93% win rate, but it should never be 95%. I always want skill and strategy to reflect one's record and win rate, not something scrappy like luck factor abuse with shadow arts and cores.

Post #: 3

4/13/2013 1:21:54

Trae
Member

KingFrotlich i do own the gun but this is an honest question what would you have the azreal promo be replaced with?

Post #: 4

4/13/2013 1:29:44

ansh0
Member

The azrael promos are more powerful than anything.

Free turn? Waste opponents shield?

That's got to be the most OP idea ever.

Compare azrael cores to other gun cores.

Azrael wins by a LANDSLIDE.

Varium wasn't supposed to give you an advantage, just be a shortcut.

Don't go flaming me for being a f2p, I bought the Omega pack since the eaasy-mode Azrael promos are disgusting.

Post #: 5

4/13/2013 2:15:53

King FrostLich
Member

quote:

i do own the gun but this is an honest question what would you have the azreal promo be replaced with?

How about the devs read the ones Xendran made in the suggestion forums. It's a bit more complicated but more diverse than this one. I'm fine with the gun and aux if only they weren't placed together on the promo or at least one of the cores existed but having them two included in the promo is ridiculous. If I'd want it replaced well then what about sticking up to the dress-up feature or adding more cores or add MORE health for everyone to survive.

quote:

you must time it correctly so that the opponent wastes rage, particularly if you have a high block rate. Unfortunately, lots of less-experienced players abuse it with BH/TM and deadly aim or smoke, making it lose much of its tactical appeal.

That mostly exists in a merc's case. In 2v2, this ruins every match especially if 2 users are fighting with 2 players who both have the promo.

Post #: 6

4/13/2013 16:43:40

kittycat
Member

Azrael's Promo just makes F2P or former "varium-buyers" a little bit disadvantage, but there are ways to counter it 50% - 70% of the time.

AQ

MQ

Post #: 7

4/13/2013 17:25:43

ansh0
Member

But even then, they are still too strong compared to other Weapons

Post #: 8

4/13/2013 21:28:22

Demon Emperor
Member

I think the nerf Azraels Will got was good enough. The core takes strategy to use, and it doesn't work with the Bunny bot that sprays paint. I beat people with it all the time.

Luck though is a big problem. The luck cores like Primary/side/aux Mastery and Ninja reflexes need to go or be replaced.

Edit: Regrowth and Reenergize are good core ideas, but if a battle is long it gives you a huge advantage. Ex: 10 round battle. With +10 armor you get 30 HP/EP back depending on the core. I say it should only give you back the HP/EP if you're hit for more than 15 dmg that round.

< Message edited by Demon Emperor -- 4/13/2013 21:32:22 >

Post #: 9

4/13/2013 21:35:10

The Incredible Hulk
Banned

quote:

Guys, it's absolutely ridiculous how it's no longer possible to get high winrate. Honestly, it's because so many PvP factors nowadays kinda hides away who is actually skilled and smart versus the ones who don't know how to think.

Yeh obv, you can't get high win rates since the skilled players were Npcing before, not actually PVPing

Epic	Post #: 10

4/13/2013 22:04:40

Mother1
Member

People had these win rates in 1 vs 1 and juggernaut due to their being NPC in 1 vs 1 along with enhancements and Juggernaut anyone with Varium could get a good win rate due to enhancements. Now that NPC and enhancements are gone win rates aren't as easy to keep high.

Epic	Post #: 11

4/13/2013 22:20:14

Dual Thrusters
Member

Well not everyone can have a high win rate. It is the same logic as everyone having a 100% rate. Only a skilled few probably have a 90% win rate e_e. Players may play smart in this game, but also many others play smarter. Then there's luck, but I can't really say anything about that.

MQ

Post #: 12

4/13/2013 22:52:20

Master Smasher
Member

quote:

Yeh obv, you can't get high win rates since the skilled players were Npcing before, not actually PVPing

I agree 10000000000000%, ever since the stat and power gap has been washed away, skill factor has increased tremendously, we are now facing waves of players who are very skilled, so win rate decreasing is just something you have to get over, pretty much the only way to get high win rate again is by getting huge advantages over your opponents

< Message edited by Master Smasher -- 4/13/2013 22:53:35 >

Epic	Post #: 13

4/15/2013 20:06:54

Exploding Penguin
Moderator

@The Incredible Hulk: I had a 93-94%% win rate one day when I got on the 1v1 LB, where I was NPCing 10 NPCs per hour, and I got a total of about 60 NPC kills and a cumulative 400 wins before I quit. Considering I wasn't using boosters (I've never supported their existence), I'm making an estimate without NPC kills I would have just a little less than 90% of a win rate...maybe 88-89%. If I used boosters 90%+ win rate is easily attainable, so I wouldn't blame the reduced win rates on NPCs. I'd blame it on the luck factors and the fact that before, fighting lower levels were pretty much a guaranteed win, but now it isn't because of luck cores (particularly weapon mastery). I guess another factor is that varium vs. non-vars was almost a guaranteed win as well.

Epic	Post #: 14

4/15/2013 20:14:50

Sipping Cider
Member

Personally I like how win rates are so much more telling on the daily leaderboards now-adays. You know that those win percentages reflect skill much more then they used to. True, many people could get high win rates without NPCing, but many people did get high win rates through NPCing and I did not like how I did not know which of those players won honestly against other players and how many just took the time (and/or money) to fight NPCs. Plus:

quote:

I guess another factor is that varium vs. non-vars was almost a guaranteed win as well.

I think this could be a huge factor now.

Epic	Post #: 15

4/15/2013 21:54:53

goldslayer1
Member

quote:

Yeh obv, you can't get high win rates since the skilled players were Npcing before, not actually PVPing

thats not true.

my Surgical Strike focus TLM was 97.5%
there was a day when i got like 550-14 with 97.5%
300 of those were NPCs because the build was very slow. but the other.

that leaves 250-14 (pretty sure i lost to an NPC that day but lets say its still 14)
thats still 94.7 against real players.

the game is very luck based now. 1 crit and ur HP gets cut in half like butter.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 4/15/2013 21:56:20 >

Post #: 16

4/18/2013 11:38:24

XxKirachanXx
Member

Really, I think in a balanced game, a 70% winrate is fairly impressive. 80% and you either have insane luck, or you are one of those fellows that can solve a mathematical equation, and take in to account the possible variables to judge the best move in your short time.
I mean, this isn't Dynasty Warriors, guys, we aren't facing a bunch of faceless mobs that surround you and only attack every few seconds. This is a strategy-ish game, where two players must pit their wits against the other.
The two players are more often than not, equal in power, why should anyone even expect a 90% winrate?

Post #: 17

4/18/2013 11:57:07

goldslayer1
Member

quote:

Really, I think in a balanced game, a 70% winrate is fairly impressive.

except it isn't balanced.

Post #: 18

4/18/2013 12:41:53

ansh0
Member

quote:

I think in a balanced game, a 70% winrate is fairly impressive.

Balance... which game are you playing? I would like to play it too :)

< Message edited by ansh0 -- 4/18/2013 12:58:12 >

Epic	Post #: 19

4/18/2013 14:57:33

ScarletReaper
Member

okay if everyone wants a 90+ percent win rate....Who are the loses going to? I seriously believe a 70 percent win rate is just fine. means there aren't any UNSTOPPABLE builds which is what you need for a 90+ win percentage because the 1 in 10 times you lose will be due to luck, not strategy most likely.

DF

Post #: 20

4/18/2013 21:23:01

Exploding Penguin
Moderator

@ScarletReaper: Not everyone will get a 90% win rate. Only those who really know what they're doing and have a mastery (and understanding) of the battle mechanics. Right now a level 35 opponent who has more losses than wins can beat me with luck, but previously I could easily get an 85-90% win rate because I beat people with more losses than wins about 85-95% of the time... now I only win around 75-80% of the time. The losses are also going to the lower levels who can randomly win due to crits from luck cores and shadow arts.

Epic	Post #: 21

4/18/2013 21:28:26

ScarletReaper
Member

@penguin yes it's true luck still plays a far bigger role than we'd like, but I think 90+ win percent is still a bit much. Even with the right strategy there should still in an equal balanced game...be a build that yours is weak to.

DF

Post #: 22

4/18/2013 21:30:17

Exploding Penguin
Moderator

Previously, even if there was a build that my build was weak to, it was sometimes the case where the opponent just copied the build or lacked the skills to use it to win against me. In which case, they deserved the loss for their lack of skills.

Epic	Post #: 23

4/18/2013 21:35:46

ScarletReaper
Member

true enough, but while there are quite a few people who use poor strategy or build choice, there are a lot who employ good strategies and builds as well. For example I'm sure not everyone could use my plasma cannonbuild as effectively as I do. A lot of people tell me it's a bad build. I reply with "If you say so" as I deliver the killing blow. On the flipside, I know there are people with "good" builds who use them wrong, but I think in general it all would still balance out to maybe a 85 win percent with good strategy and build.

DF

Post #: 24

4/18/2013 21:52:27

Exploding Penguin
Moderator

@ScarletReaper:

I wrote an expose on that a while back, I don't know if you read it...
The general idea was the same. The way to determine a player's skill level in ED is not only their build, but their play style. This is also why build copying isn't that big of a deal, because those who aren't that skilled but copy good builds still don't win that much more, and skilled players who copy builds are perfectly capable of making their own good builds. Lots of people have also said my builds didn't work, but in the end I won... and they copied the build after they lost *cough*. After a few more fights later, they said my build suked and I beat them because of luck, where I beat them again once they switched back to their previous build.

Anyways, I guess that a player's play style (their understanding of battle mechanics, strategy, etc...) really determines one's win rate for the most part, and that the build is only a small part of one's win rate.

Epic	Post #: 25

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