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RE: Plasma Bolt Fix

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4/26/2013 15:39:59   
goldslayer1
Member

@melbourne
i think he was talking to xendran.
AQW Epic  Post #: 26
4/26/2013 16:35:51   
blade98
Member

It's too powerful,at level 5 it can hit up to 50 damage.They should make it usable 3 times per fight .
AQW Epic  Post #: 27
4/26/2013 20:08:10   
Midnightsoul
Member

@Xendran
you're right. it is really weird. i tried the class yesterday and it can be OP at time and really weak at other times. It really depends on if it gets first strike or not from my experience.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 28
4/26/2013 21:58:02   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Well, personally I said I didn't have a problem with it, so I was just considering the points I saw on the forums and tried to make a solution. Anyhow, TM without a doubt is a pretty weak class right now, but it's not because of the skills, it's because of the synergy. TM has a fairly strong ultimate, decent to good passives, a good EP remover, bludgeon, plasma bolt, and 2 strong defensive buffs. Honestly, all the skills are pretty strong, but I guess that just means TM has an inability to endure lots of hits when compared to other classes.
Epic  Post #: 29
4/30/2013 21:16:03   
NDB
Member

^Yep. Skills of very, very good. Just can't synergize.
Epic  Post #: 30
4/30/2013 23:56:51   
toopygoo
Member

here's is an idea: kinda drastic, but i believe it would be worth a test:

-you take the cooldown off of plasma completely, but add a warmup of 1 (you can repeatedly use it at a lower damage, but you run out faster)
-you change the damage up ratio to 5 like on fireball
-make minimum cost at 15-max cost at 30
-make assimilation relative to the amount of damage you do (e.g. 12-16+35=47-51: 33.3%=about 12-14 energy stolen)
-give assimilation a cost of 3, and block damage does 5 instead (you steal only 1 point)
-put assimilation warmup to 1, and cooldown to 3 still

this will make people once again more reliant of reroute
this should stop the problems with OP damage
stops problems with assimilation farming

if you dont like the idea, lemme know why, and offer changes. Please dont just go ripping on "its a bad idea, cause that wouldn't work"
thank you
AQW Epic  Post #: 31
5/1/2013 0:34:21   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 @toopygoo: Interesting, but it would make the skill vastly underpowered. While the cooldown is zero, most casters function without starting EP being much higher than the base EP. A single EMP would destroy all caster builds, and would only allow for one use of the skill (which in your case would also be very weak because of the humongously reduced scaling).
Epic  Post #: 32
5/1/2013 4:47:52   
Thesoulweaver
Member

@Too whatever -


Interesting Idea, but you forgot those poor little level 1 - 20s. TM will become impossible for them.
MQ AQW  Post #: 33
5/1/2013 4:50:04   
King FrostLich
Member

1.) Nerf a few damage points and increase its mana cost by 2 mana.
2.) Nerf 7 damage points off it.
3.) Make it scale like Fireball.



Those are 3 options to nerf them for me.

< Message edited by King FrostLich -- 5/1/2013 6:10:50 >
Epic  Post #: 34
5/1/2013 5:35:57   
Blitzex/Sr. Zeph
Banned
quote:

They should make it usable 3 times per fight .

The damage is than already done.
Taking the average amount of damage it deals, it would still hit around 120-150 damage per battle.

Not very much of a nerf if you ask me..

quote:

Make it scale like Fireball.

Yes.

quote:

The skill itself is overpowered, but mage is in a really weird position right now, so i'm not sure if right now is the appropriate time to nerf it.

I'm doing fine without this skill.
Besides, this is not a legitimate reason to let it stay untouched..

< Message edited by Blitzex/Sr. Zeph -- 5/1/2013 5:39:42 >
Epic  Post #: 35
5/1/2013 7:33:18   
toopygoo
Member

@ exploding penguin+ Thesoulweaver

in my opinion. it would teach people to be more creative with their builds. add better a defensive scale. personally i would like to see all non-blockable attacks have a 1 turn warmup. i mean id rather have some berserk on my frist turn for 85 damage, then plasma for 77. the reason is, you know that if they have high strength, they gnereally have lower defense, an thus you can block with the right build. I feel there should be a gernal rock-paper-scissors feeling to this game: there is not ultimate build, it just has a weakness to different things
AQW Epic  Post #: 36
5/1/2013 18:13:51   
arthropleura
Member

Er mah flying god, buff all the other skills instead of nerfing or we'll have absolutely no skills left D:
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 37
5/1/2013 18:43:42   
toopygoo
Member

im not saying nerf it alone. nerf all unblockable attacks with warm up period.
AQW Epic  Post #: 38
5/1/2013 18:44:07   
Dual Thrusters
Member

quote:

It's too powerful,at level 5 it can hit up to 50 damage


Yes it can.....if you put most of your stats into tech :P
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 39
5/2/2013 7:22:56   
Zue3
Banned
quote:

Blitzex/Sr. Zeph:
Go eat a twinkie as you have no idea..
Taking the normal caster, a lvl 4 PB deals 65 raw damage, minus the average resistance is already a secured 40 hit.
Then, malf on before hand, increases the damage to around 46-48 which is quite alot for a lvl 4 skill.

To top it off they use an unblockable energy taker that even deals damage and returns energy making it possible to PB at any given moment.

If anything, TMs need a nerf.
And we arent even talking about the ridicolous Sup-Str TMs which are even worse then casters.

TRizZzCENTRINO:
i agree with this, it definitely needs a nerf, i mean seriously, it is even more powerful and useful than super charge or surgical strike. casters without the assimilation buff is fine but now they have a effective energy steal/drain skill they are almost unstoppable.


Wow have you people even played as a TM? The TM class is completely unbalanced. The only tech based skills they have are PB and Super Charge which are placed so far apart that they can't even level them both properly. Also to level assimilation TMs have to put points into technician and malf as well, so that they can only have a 4-5 assimilation which only takes 9-10 energy. Basically making a PB build is the only option they have of inflicting any appreciable damage. If it was nerfed TMs wouldn't be able to do ANY damage. TMs cant even have high defense and resistance cause then they wouldn't be able to do much damage with their skills.
Post #: 40
5/2/2013 7:28:22   
Zue3
Banned
quote:

Trans:
I was a TM since the Class Change was put into the game all the way until late Delta (November) + TLM in-between when it had Smoke + pre-nerf Frenzy but I've switched back soon after. So I have played as TM for quite a long time, although mainly Support TM, I've enjoyed playing around with Caster a lot (whether it was Dex or Tech + prior and after the change of Multi and SC; when they've scaled with Tech and Dex).

Rage needs adjusting, yes, but that doesn't stop a Lvl 5 skill from doing around 70 damage before defences for a mere cost of 21 EP. CHs can get around 40 Res but other classes will usually have 30-35 Res instead at most. That's still 30-40 damage going through for 21 EP. Of course Shield can nullify it even further but a Caster will wait until Rage and cut through it instead - unless, of course, it wears off by then. EP draining works but with low EP cost, even double EMP won't do much due to Reroute + low EP cost. Assimilation will make it even worse, but looping is possible with and without Assimilation.


What are you talking about? I have a TM with 98 tech and 7 plasma bolt and I do 30s against someone with 20-25 resistance. Also, it's impossible to use the PB more than 2 times per battle. Stop making stuf up to support your claims. I don't know if you've recently played as TM but nowadays PB is pretty average and it's the ONLY skill TMs have that does ANY real damage.
Post #: 41
5/2/2013 7:33:34   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


 ^

This guy is sounding like Hun Kingq.

Good sir, Casters are extremely powerful, if not overpowered, and the only thing keeping them in check is EMP. If you're not doing as much damage as is described, there's something wrong with your build if it's meant to be a caster build. TMs regularly hit 35+ damage with a level 5 PB on my 37-43 res. I don't know how you're playing, because the caster TMs I play against somehow manage mid-high level Assimilation, high-level Reroute, mid-high level SC, mid-level FM and low-mid level PB.

And it's not like caster builds are TMs' only option. Have you seen the resurgence of the deadly strength-support abuse TM builds lately? And 5 focus TMs aren't any worse than 5 focus Mercs, BMs, CHs, TLMs, or even, to an extent, BHs.
Post #: 42
5/2/2013 7:36:58   
Zue3
Banned
quote:

Blitzex/Sr. Zeph:
The damage is than already done.
Taking the average amount of damage it deals, it would still hit around 120-150 damage per battle.


120-150 average damage with PB? Are you dreaming? AT MOST(with 90-100 tech) it does 60-80(after 2 casts) against someone who has 20-25 resistance(and hunter have an energy shield and EMP too). It's the ONLY damage dealing skill TMs have right now and frankly it's nowhere NEAR as powerful as you say it is. Stop making random stuff up to support your impossible claims.
Post #: 43
5/2/2013 7:44:27   
Zue3
Banned
quote:

Silver Sky Magician:
Good sir, Casters are extremely powerful, if not overpowered, and the only thing keeping them in check is EMP. If you're not doing as much damage as is described, there's something wrong with your build if it's meant to be a caster build. TMs regularly hit 35+ damage with a level 5 PB on my 37-43 res. I don't know how you're playing, because the caster TMs I play against somehow manage mid-high level Assimilation, high-level Reroute, mid-high level SC, mid-level FM and low-mid level PB.


LMFAO You people are dreaming.. 37-43 res and you're getting hit with 35+? I don't know what game you're playing but it cant be Epic Duel cause that's impossible. With 90-100 tech and 7 bolt I hit low 30s against 20-25 res builds. If you had 35+ res then bolt would do 20s AT MOST.

And the build you described at the end isn't possible to make. You cant have high assimilation AND high reroute, or high PB AND high SC. It can't be structured that way. And along with all of that a TM can have at most 3-5 FM, which would be impossible to use if you used all your energy on the aforementioned skills like a high PB and SC...

Actually play as a TM before you make incredible claims like that.
Post #: 44
5/2/2013 7:46:14   
King FrostLich
Member

^Have you been reading what Blitzex said? He quoted a statement from someone about if plasma bolt being only usable thrice in one match that it deals 120-150 if calculated by plasma bolt alone if used three times.

quote:

60-80(after 2 casts) against someone who has 20-25 resistance(and hunter have an energy shield and EMP too)


So that's 120-160 average in two casts compared to 120-150 in three casts. What are you saying now?

< Message edited by King FrostLich -- 5/2/2013 7:48:04 >
Epic  Post #: 45
5/2/2013 8:30:26   
Melbourne
Member

Silver Sky. We have found our replacement of Hun but as a TM not BM. On topic ;)
And for you're record I made a level 26 TM with high heal, decent reroute, high plasma and high heal, about 5-7 on each.
Now add about hmmm. Say 9 skill points til you hit level max and there ya go.
High reroute, SC, plasma, and high assimilation and heal. Veerrrryyy easy build to make.
Plasma is one of the only things keeping TM alive other than the now infamous str/support combo. Nerf maybe a little bit of its damage to have it scale a bit closer to fireball.
AQW Epic  Post #: 46
5/2/2013 8:43:29   
Ranloth
Banned


 'Tech/4' instead of 'Tech/3' would really solve all the problems with the skills, for levels to come. And nerf it at lower level where it poses quite a threat; I've played as BH throughout the low levels since very late Delta until now, currently Lvl 25; basically, unless you Tech abuse or have decent way to get a lot of Resistance, you're done for.

People will think Assimilation is that OP due to the way in which Bolt can be looped for very high damage, even at Lvl 3-5 Bolt. One good Assimilation would probably give you enough EP for low-level Bolt hence why people think it's that bad. If you use a Focus 5 TM as an example who does not use damaging skills such as Bolt, Overload, etc., then what are they gonna use EP for? Most likely Malf, Heal, Bludgeon (last resort?), and possibly either of the Shields. On the other hand, Casters will loop Bolt as soon as possible due to low EP cost (Lvl 3-5) and high damage, with no drawback (no, requirement doesn't count since Lvl 3-5 Bolt has a joke requirement...).

What you can then look for is a defensive buff to TMs. Yet I still think they are fine, it's perhaps Smoke and Malf taking off too much - as Goony has stated few times - which leaves them defenceless. If these two were to get nerfed a bit, it'd be indirect buff to defensive skills. Unless, these were to be brought down a little as well but it'd still be better; less taken away = lower impact on the player = weaker but for the better.
AQ Epic  Post #: 47
5/2/2013 8:51:56   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


 @Zue3

quote:

LMFAO You people are dreaming.. 37-43 res and you're getting hit with 35+? I don't know what game you're playing but it cant be Epic Duel cause that's impossible. With 90-100 tech and 7 bolt I hit low 30s against 20-25 res builds. If you had 35+ res then bolt would do 20s AT MOST.

And the build you described at the end isn't possible to make. You cant have high assimilation AND high reroute, or high PB AND high SC. It can't be structured that way. And along with all of that a TM can have at most 3-5 FM, which would be impossible to use if you used all your energy on the aforementioned skills like a high PB and SC...

Actually play as a TM before you make incredible claims like that.


Dude, 90-100 tech and you call yourself a caster mage? The caster mages the rest of us are fighting have 136 tech. And if you haven't fought one of those mages, you haven't played the game enough to be saying anything. The build I described at the end is entirely possible to make. 3 SP to FM, 1 to Technician, 1 to Malf, 6 to Assimilation, 1 to Bludgeon, 8 to Reroute, 4 to PB, 1 to Overload, 1 to Plasma Rain, and you still have 8 for SC. Rearrange it any way you wish.

In fact, I have no idea how you even manage to find 20-25 res builds. The majority of builds have at least 30 res. Just what level are you, anyway? 25?

So, sir, the question has to be asked. What game are you playing?

< Message edited by Silver Sky Magician -- 5/2/2013 8:56:17 >
Post #: 48
5/2/2013 10:09:57   
Striker44
Member

quote:

High reroute, SC, plasma, and high assimilation and heal. Veerrrryyy easy build to make

Right, easy to make and very effective ; Plasma bolt & heal looping
Post #: 49
5/2/2013 15:36:37   
toopygoo
Member

@ zue:
i have a 37-43 Defense. getting hit with 28 is regular, getting hit with 35 is rare but it happens. (in jugg... not even mentioning 2v2) so yeah.. you must definitely be doing something wrong if your numbers arent adding up.
AQW Epic  Post #: 50
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