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Posion changes

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6/26/2013 17:24:20   
Mysterion.
Member

2 possible changes can be made to prevent abuse and mistakes.

First one is regarding the Botanical hazards.
Their special can be used on rage, yet only deals 3 damage all the time (excluding critical hits).
This special should be made unable to rage, as it prevents huge mistakes (misclicks especially).
Their is pretty much no downside on this, since, well, who the hell even rages there special? You must be one bad strategist if you ever do this.

So, unable to rage, prevents terrible mistakes.
Anyone any issues with this?
Please provide feedback, not just ''not supported''.



Second one is regarding clearing poison with field medic and then immediatly poison again.
This should not be possible, since field medic can only be used once in 5 turns, this is one hell of annoying system.
It is pretty much unstoppable and gets abused all the time.
Make it, that after you have just healed, you cannot be poisoned for 2 turns.

Prevents terrible abuse.
Anyone any issues with this?
Please provide feedback, not just ''not supported''.
Epic  Post #: 1
6/26/2013 17:37:02   
The Incredible Hulk
Banned

 
quote:

This special should be made unable to rage, as it prevents huge mistakes (misclicks especially).

What about other bots also? I have mistakes with the new bot where it shoots two people at once. I miss-click that too.

quote:



Second one is regarding clearing poison with field medic and then immediatly poison again.
This should not be possible, since field medic can only be used once in 5 turns, this is one hell of annoying system.
It is pretty much unstoppable and gets abused all the time.
Make it, that after you have just healed, you cannot be poisoned for 2 turns.


Not supported in the least. The devs have tried to make it balance as possible. Remember when you healed; you would still get poisoned? Well if you heal the poison goes away, I do not think they need another balance change for this. And I haven't seen many complain.

I'm afraid Blitzex but I'm not supporting this idea; I do not have that bot my self either.
Epic  Post #: 2
6/26/2013 17:41:25   
Mysterion.
Member

quote:

What about other bots also? I have mistakes with the new bot where it shoots two people at once. I miss-click that too.

Except for the fact that those deal 60% damage, whereas the Botanicals deal 3 damage regardless of rage..

quote:

Remember when you healed; you would still get poisoned?

And when you have just healed to cleanse the posion, they use it again making you unable to counter it for 5 turns, that right there is the problem.

quote:

I'm afraid Blitzex but I'm not supporting this idea

Huh?
Blitzex didn't even post here?
Epic  Post #: 3
6/26/2013 17:44:20   
Mother1
Member

Number one

I have seen people use the poison with rage and they did use it on me. I was surprised as well and I even asked the person did they misclick and they said no. As for reason 2 I don't support for the following which has happened with me and my partner.

My partner poisoned one of our opponents. the opponent who wasn't poisoned turn came. He used field medic and boom my partner's poison was rendered worthless without even activating once. This change which you want to bring to prevent abuse will only be a bad nerf to poison builds especially in situations like that.

Epic  Post #: 4
6/26/2013 17:49:37   
Mysterion.
Member


@Mother1
Even though some actually use it (terrible strategists probably), it is something that has completely no use.
I've seen many people who misclick this and it probably outwages those who actually do it on purpose mayorly.

quote:

My partner poisoned one of our opponents. the opponent who wasn't poisoned turn came. He used field medic and boom my partner's poison was rendered worthless without even activating once. This change which you want to bring to prevent abuse will only be a bad nerf to poison builds especially in situations like that.

More then deserved.
These builds are out of control, especially those who have the Hazards and a Poison skill at the same time, it gets abused non-stop and needs to be changed immediatly.
Epic  Post #: 5
6/26/2013 17:55:45   
The Incredible Hulk
Banned

 
quote:

These builds are out of control, especially those who have the Hazards and a Poison skill at the same time, it gets abused non-stop and needs to be changed immediatly.


No it does not. Just because you lose to a poison build doesn't mean you should nerf it. There are counters to stop getting poisoned again if your really good at the game; but I'm guessing you will complain till you get what you want.

Edit:
I abuse STR; why doesn't that get a nerfed?
I abuse support; why doesn't that get nerfed also?
I abuse plasma builds; why doesn't that get nerfed also?

< Message edited by The Incredible Hulk -- 6/26/2013 17:57:22 >
Epic  Post #: 6
6/26/2013 18:00:10   
Mysterion.
Member

quote:

No it does not. Just because you lose to a poison build doesn't mean you should nerf it. There are counters to stop getting poisoned again if your really good at the game; but I'm guessing you will complain till you get what you want.

Situation:
He poisoned you, you heal, his turn.

Name one counter, i double dare you.
You cannot counter it, Hulk.

quote:

I abuse STR; why doesn't that get a nerfed?
I abuse support; why doesn't that get nerfed also?
I abuse plasma builds; why doesn't that get nerfed also?

Abuse =/= OP
Epic  Post #: 7
6/26/2013 18:01:07   
The Incredible Hulk
Banned

 

 EMP before he poisons you.
Epic  Post #: 8
6/26/2013 18:02:15   
Mysterion.
Member

^ Can't, it is his turn. >_>
He simply poisons you again.
Epic  Post #: 9
6/26/2013 18:25:58   
Mother1
Member

@ mysterion

No offense but that had to be one of the most biased responses I have heard in a while. Just because certain people are using something that is effective doesn't mean it needs to be nerf.

Poison is used to combat tanks and this nerf would only buff tanks (Which most people play as due to the current balance) and will make it even harder to combat tanks.
Epic  Post #: 10
6/26/2013 18:31:48   
King Helios
Member

quote:

He poisoned you, you heal, his turn.

Name one counter, i double dare you.


High HP. If you have 80 HP, 8 DPT will take 1/10 of your health per turn. With 120 HP, it will take 1/15 of your health per turn.
AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 11
6/27/2013 3:45:23   
Mysterion.
Member

^ Poison grenade takes 42 damage.
A normal Hazard would take around 32 damage.

And, having high health isn't even countering....

@Mother1
quote:

Poison is used to combat tanks and this nerf would only buff tanks and will make it even harder to combat tanks.

I'm not a Tank, yet find these builds OP, says enough doesn't it?

The situation I described earlier makes their poison hit 42 at minimum, Mother1, at a low cost of 33 energy.
Or, if they use the hazard it deals 32 damage, no energy cost at all.

Do you realize how much ensured damage that is?
All the class specials only deal 20 damage at minimum, these poison attacks deal 32 at minimum, unstoppable.

These poison attacks are unstoppable once you healed yourself, no player actually got them to counter Tanks, they got it to counter either High health or just to get high damage, or even force them to heal early on..
quote:

(Which most people play as due to the current balance)

Dunno which game you are playing, but all I see is TLMs with max Poison, high str-sup TMs and high STR-Smoke BHs nowadays.
I rarely ever see a Tank in 1vs1...
Epic  Post #: 12
6/27/2013 12:40:18   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Using rage on a bot special such as exploding chomp and botanical borg can actually be very helpful because it is unblockable and undeflectable with only a small damage penalty.

I agree with not being able to rage on botanical hazard's special. It's annoying when I want to poison that turn but I also have rage and end up having to waste it or delay 1 turn of poison.

Secondly, the idea of a poison bot is absolutely ridiculous because you can deal massive damage and repeat poison multiple times without even consuming any energy. As a tech focus build, I'm using level 4 bunker, and it hits on average 30-35 damage without crits, and costs 21 energy when I have just over 100 tech. When I poison with the same amount of tech, I actually get more total damage and I can reuse the skill with only 1 more turn of cooldown and no energy cost. The poison bot should be disabled/removed until a balanced version of it is actually made, because it's also abusable at 0-2 focus on tech-abuse casters to still get 6-ish poison damage per turn, resulting in an extremely dependable damage type for caster builds. I would partially blame the overuse of high HP builds these days on the ridiculous concept of the poison bot, because there's simply barely any other way to get around the bot.
Epic  Post #: 13
6/27/2013 15:35:56   
Necromantres
Member

quote:

Name one counter, i double dare you.


Wasn't it: I dare you, I double dare you ************?

As for the first part.. i've also seen 1 person raging it but because i'm a caster build and if he raged anything else. i would've had enough energy to heal...

As for part 2..i strongly agree..it's like when you take antibiotics for your poison ,your corpse should have the antibiotics with the imunity sistem ready to counter it for some time (until the antibiotics effect caries off, and the imunity sistem isn't strongly enough to counter the poison itself)

And shouldn't the poison have a % number to be effective? to be affected by it? I Mean i can get be blasted by a thunder from the sky and only lose 1 turn in the process SOMETIMES even that turn isn't lost...i'd like to think my body it's strong enough to cure a flawless poison...or let's look at the mercenary..The "Hulk" type class (big, muscular,melee type shouldn't it be immune to poison unless it is as hell as strong?)

And about the robot were does that poison come from, his stomach? why isn't the robot poisoned as well?
Epic  Post #: 14
6/27/2013 16:21:26   
Mother1
Member

@ Necromantres

Making poison luck based isn't a good idea in the least. A core to weaken the effects to DOT poison per turn maybe, but making a tactical decision change based like this no just no.

But on another note this problem became an issue the moment they made field medic cure poison. If you couldn't cure it with field medic like it was originally it would make poison harder to loop since they would have to wait until the poison wears off before they could put it back on again. Doing this would effectively weaken double poison builds and would make those who use field medic to heal themselves won't be so hard pressed against poison either.

Cause as I said before option 2 would make poison worthless in two vs two. Especially if one person poisons someone only for their partner to heal them and remove. That poison would have done nothing and they will get 2 turns of immunity to boot.
Epic  Post #: 15
6/27/2013 23:00:18   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator
quote:

And about the robot were does that poison come from, his stomach? why isn't the robot poisoned as well?

Well, why aren't we poisoned from the hydrochloric acid in our stomachs? I believe it has a pH of 2.
Epic  Post #: 16
6/28/2013 11:08:02   
Mysterion.
Member

quote:

But on another note this problem became an issue the moment they made field medic cure poison.

It became a problem when they buffed posion builds terribly.
And now even worsen the already broken system with a devastating Robot that is OP at even 0 focus..
Epic  Post #: 17
6/28/2013 11:16:21   
Mother1
Member

@ mysterion

They buffed poison to compensate for the fact it could be cured. Also why do you think they can loop it so easily anyways? Because field medic can cure it.
Epic  Post #: 18
6/28/2013 11:37:54   
The Incredible Hulk
Banned

 

 I remember back in beta, you could heal after 3 rounds instead of 5
Epic  Post #: 19
6/28/2013 12:26:04   
Mother1
Member

@ hulk

It is 4 turns now now 5 for field medic.
Epic  Post #: 20
6/28/2013 17:56:41   
Mysterion.
Member

^ Which makes it nearly impossible to counter after a heal.
Regardless of making it less effective in 2vs2, it is way and way OP in 1vs1.

It needs to be changed, not all moves are good in both battle modes, Posion should be one of them.

Making Regenerator cleanse it would make Posion UP.
Lowering the DOTs still leaves it uncounterable.
This is the only possible solution.
Epic  Post #: 21
6/28/2013 19:41:48   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 I would suggest special armor cores that cleanse poison and frost effects, as well as assault bot's cleanse also clearing up these effects because right now the bot is vastly underpowered, especially compared to botanical hazards. Another suggestion I would make is that if the full effects of poison spores occurs (it lasts all 4 turns) then you can't use it again, but if it is healed you can use it until it's reached its 4-turn end. This is better than making it just a 1-use core, but it will still greatly help because it will reduce the amount of damage the bot can deal in the endgame when either player can't heal, especially in fights with tanks.
Epic  Post #: 22
6/28/2013 19:44:47   
Mother1
Member

@ exploding

The staff doesn't want one bot to be a counter to another so I highly doubt they will buff the assault bot to cleanse poison unless they make it unable to touch the hazard's poison. Otherwise they will be doing what the azreal's borg did to the bio borg once again.
Epic  Post #: 23
6/28/2013 19:57:34   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 However, back then, the bio borg wasn't anywhere near being OP. I would classify botanical hazards as the best bot currently in the game because of its cumulative damage potential. Maybe make cleanse reduce the poison effect by 65% as if it were a normal debuff?
Epic  Post #: 24
6/28/2013 20:03:54   
Mother1
Member

@ Exploding

The bio borg was never OP to begin with. Plus that would be doing the exact same thing the Azreal's borg did to the bio borg which the staff already said no to since the azreal's borg originally took 80% of the thorns debuff away.

Regular poison from the other moves would be one thing but the bot no due to that rule they made themselves.
Epic  Post #: 25
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