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RE: Op Bounty Hunter builds

 
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7/12/2013 11:13:20   
Midnightsoul
Member

^Who are you talking to???
I'm a Cyber so... O_o
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 26
7/12/2013 11:29:15   
I Underlord I
Member

Ah; I'm sorry about that, In this thread, I was talking to NDB, but I was really speaking in general as response to those who want EMP nerfed.

_____________________________

"Memories and thoughts age, just as people do. But certain thoughts can never age, and certain memories can never fade."
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AQ  Post #: 27
7/12/2013 12:28:43   
lionblades
Member

i dont have a problem with beating BH with high health but
the only OP part about them is the azraels alux which takes away buffs
other BH are pretty easy to beat
AQW  Post #: 28
7/12/2013 13:26:18   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


Made a similar build for merc:
181 HP
60-65 strength
55-ish dex
30-ish tech
36 support

1-1-8
M-7-0
0-2-1
0-7-0

Absolutely ridiculous build, mainly because it works extremely well (celtic cleaver is the way to go for this build, otherwise you'll get blocked way more often). Against other glass cannons, blood commander just rips them apart while healing almost 10 HP per round, where I take around 30-40 damage per turn. I can also use intimidate to mess up strength glass cannon BHs so I can outpower them. Azrael's will does nothing bad on this build because all I do is strike anyways. Against tanks, I hit around 15-20 damage per turn, healing around 4 HP. Tanks can barely damage me with their basic attacks, and they'll pretty much never hit over 45 on me, even on rage. I rage faster than them because of adrenaline, and I can pull a zerker in case I need it, otherwise I rage meteors. My point is that blood lust/life steal + massive HP and high damage output is extremely overpowered because it can easily cut the cumulative damage taken per turn by a strong quarter or so, while dealing extremely massive amounts of damage. Here are some solutions I suggest:

-Make all lifestealing effects part unit-based and part %-based. For example numbers I arbitrarily came up with, let's say 27% damage to health at max bloodlust would now be changed to 3 set health per attack and 15% damage to health. So, if I hit 100 damage on an opponent, the old blood lust would return 27 health, but the new blood lust would return 3 + 15, or 18 health. This would also apply to blood commander. Not sure about supercharge and surgical strike though.
-Make rage less affected by strength. This is a humongous thing because no-support builds that have lots of strength can very easily gain rage, which normally results in the glass cannon beating the tank unless the tank has devised a strong counter or gets lucky.
-Nerf smoke base amount, but increase its scaling rate. This will keep focus/tank BHs fairly strong because their smoke was never really nerfed, but it will weaken those with little tech that can still get fairly large amounts of dex removed with smoke.
-Increase base stat amount of malfunction, but reduce scaling rate. This is because malfunction is pretty useless on caster builds and other tanks with no support, but it's simply way too useful for glass cannons because it increases with an offensive stat.

Epic  Post #: 29
7/12/2013 13:56:54   
ED Divine Darkness
Member

quote:

Made a similar build for merc:
181 HP
60-65 strength
55-ish dex
30-ish tech
36 support

1-1-8
M-7-0
0-2-1
0-7-0

Absolutely ridiculous build, mainly because it works extremely well (celtic cleaver is the way to go for this build, otherwise you'll get blocked way more often). Against other glass cannons, blood commander just rips them apart while healing almost 10 HP per round, where I take around 30-40 damage per turn. I can also use intimidate to mess up strength glass cannon BHs so I can outpower them. Azrael's will does nothing bad on this build because all I do is strike anyways. Against tanks, I hit around 15-20 damage per turn, healing around 4 HP. Tanks can barely damage me with their basic attacks, and they'll pretty much never hit over 45 on me, even on rage. I rage faster than them because of adrenaline, and I can pull a zerker in case I need it, otherwise I rage meteors. My point is that blood lust/life steal + massive HP and high damage output is extremely overpowered because it can easily cut the cumulative damage taken per turn by a strong quarter or so, while dealing extremely massive amounts of damage. Here are some solutions I suggest:

-Make all lifestealing effects part unit-based and part %-based. For example numbers I arbitrarily came up with, let's say 27% damage to health at max bloodlust would now be changed to 3 set health per attack and 15% damage to health. So, if I hit 100 damage on an opponent, the old blood lust would return 27 health, but the new blood lust would return 3 + 15, or 18 health. This would also apply to blood commander. Not sure about supercharge and surgical strike though.
-Make rage less affected by strength. This is a humongous thing because no-support builds that have lots of strength can very easily gain rage, which normally results in the glass cannon beating the tank unless the tank has devised a strong counter or gets lucky.
-Nerf smoke base amount, but increase its scaling rate. This will keep focus/tank BHs fairly strong because their smoke was never really nerfed, but it will weaken those with little tech that can still get fairly large amounts of dex removed with smoke.
-Increase base stat amount of malfunction, but reduce scaling rate. This is because malfunction is pretty useless on caster builds and other tanks with no support, but it's simply way too useful for glass cannons because it increases with an offensive stat.



no, just no. no need for lifesteal nerfs. ur build is countered by zerker blocks(celtic doesnt effect this) and very tanky tanks with strong shields.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 30
7/12/2013 14:11:53   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


Actually, blood lust is the superior passive and I have made an analysis before that proves it is better than hybrid armor and arguably better than plasma/mineral armor. If anything, I'd say blood lust is the strongest endurance-based passive in the game. The "nerf" I suggested will really only nerf those who focus solely on offense rather than having defensive options like focus builds and tanks, where the blood lust change would not be a nerf at all.

I rarely use zerker and only pull it out in clutch moments because I'm afraid it'll get blocked, and very tanky tanks with strong shields do almost nothing to me with their 20 damage hits, whereas with blood commander I can still hit higher than 10 each turn and gain 3+ health back. This also doesn't mention how fast I would rage considering I have 7 adren and they're extremely tanky, plus I could simply use my gun and meteor shower for physical damage if they go hardcore on resistance, and vice versa with strikes. The build I showed can only be beaten by a thought-out counter build, luck, and very few select other situations.

Well, on the topic of EMP, I'd have to say it isn't OP. It takes a fair amount of energy to use and you normally only use it once per fight, making the skill points invested in it almost worthless because you use the skill once per fight. If you were to use it again, you'd probably only be taking around 20 EP or less. You don't gain rage with its use either. It's simply a dependable defensive tool that costs a fair amount of energy.

Also, I'm inclined to say you're being extremely biased toward BH; although I can't necessarily see what class you are, I'm supposing you are one right now.
quote:

db gone, massacre nerfed, whatnot. they hav aleady recieved their share of nerfing man. they are fne as it is right now. the builds you talk about are easy to counter. just build tank or have a strong physical shield. or just go focus 5 tank with a high emp or energy taking skill. trust me, the builds you are talking about arent op dude.


diamond blades was vastly OP and deserved a nerf. So was massacre, and even if it wasn't I would support its nerf anyways since all those mass BHs were ruining the game by using a monotonous build that destroyed the fun of build variety in 1v1. A strong physical shield can help, but they can just wait you out or use azrael's mark. A tank build honestly doesn't help that much because debuffs cut through defenses like they're nothing in Omega with the reduced stat total.
Epic  Post #: 31
7/12/2013 15:40:13   
The Basic Instinct
Member

I really don't think Its possible to get a build with so much health and so little strength. Also the only debuff mercenary have is intimidate which due to lack of stats that are going to health will be weak.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 32
7/12/2013 16:28:45   
vordalthe2nd
Member

I think everyone is forgetting that any merc with a toxic poison grenade build or even a botanical hazard based build can destroy all types of bounties.
If a merc has a somewhat tank build, smoke is useless and if they use a poison type skill, preferably toxic grenade, it can slowly take down bounties.
ADDITIONALLY, not all bounties are strength- high hp bounties. There are many other bounty builds that have high percentage wins but can still be taken down easily.
Post #: 33
7/12/2013 16:44:58   
VanitySixx
Member

quote:

Your probably getting offended because your a bounty hunter.....yeah I looked at your character page. Anyway I SPECIFICALLY said that bounty wasn't OP. I said that the BUILD was ok?


Really??? Well if you knew me, you would know I play equally on three separate accounts. A Tactical Mercenary named SaneSixx. A Mercenary named SanitySixx, and a Bounty Hunter (Previously a Tech Mage not too long ago) VanitySixx.

I've been all classes besides Blood Mage more than 3 times. I know for a fact that this build is not overpowered because my Mercenary and Tactical are level 30's and they still win against Bounty Hunters like this. If you really just need help on a build I'll be more than happy to help you in the game.
AQW Epic  Post #: 34
7/12/2013 16:48:58   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


@vordal: Poison = useless on high HP. Apparently you haven't tried playing as a tank against a glass cannon BH, because smoke rips right through a tank's defenses unless they completely abuse dex until their minimum base defense is in the 30s.
Epic  Post #: 35
7/12/2013 17:16:10   
The Basic Instinct
Member

How exactly am I supposed to know that the LOWER leveled characters that you played against had a similar build that I had posted in my previous message. I'd have to see some proof; otherwise that paragraph you typed up is irrelevant.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 36
7/12/2013 20:53:09   
VanitySixx
Member

It's not irrelevant. I'm going to have to see some proof that the build you mentioned was overpowered because I didn't see many people saying it was. There is only one overpowered thing in this game and that is Azrael Weapons (in my opinion). Let me ask you, the bounty hunters that you face with builds like this, did they have Azrael Weapons?
AQW Epic  Post #: 37
7/12/2013 23:07:24   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


Basic Instinct is a merc, which would explain a lot. Mercs have a weakness to glass cannons because they have no real way of countering the debuff, except for intimidate which only works on BHs and not on TMs because of their aux. Azrael weapons aren't even needed for a glass cannon to have an advantage over a merc.
Epic  Post #: 38
7/12/2013 23:19:15   
VanitySixx
Member

Which again brings us to the real overpowered thing about the game. Everything linked to a player or build being overpowered traces back to those weapons. It'd be much better if the weapons only had a 50% chance to make you strike or debuff you. These weapons can make any class have a lot of power.
AQW Epic  Post #: 39
7/12/2013 23:51:27   
The Basic Instinct
Member

Of course they did they also had Platinum's Pride to go along with it; a majority of them. But some of them also don't acquire these weapons and I still feel the same way about them.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 40
7/13/2013 0:02:35   
Dual Thrusters
Member

@van

That would make things more luck-based ._.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 41
7/13/2013 0:07:48   
Mother1
Member

@ Van

if they changed it to make it 50% chance of working people will scream "FALSE ADVERTISING" Why? because when it first came out they paid for a weapon that make your opponent strike you no matter what after you use the core not use the core for a chance to make your opponent strike you. Of every nerf they ever did to any promo item they never nerfed something to the point to where it doesn't do what it was advertised to do.
Epic  Post #: 42
7/13/2013 11:20:43   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


I honestly don't think azrael's will is overpowered, mainly because it's so blatantly predictable that unless you're in desperate times in the endgame you can almost always predict when it's coming. Azrael's mark, however, is vastly OP because of its decent damage and the fact that it can nullify a large portion of buffs. I'm a merc (which has no strong defensive buffs) and no debuffs for people to rebuff against, so I'm pretty sure my opinion on this would be the least biased, but that's just my thinking. However, nerfing azrael's mark won't really make things better for certain classes such as TLM and CH as BH glass cannons could still handle TLMs normally, and TM glass cannons could do the same to CHs since the buffs aren't the same damage type.
Epic  Post #: 43
7/14/2013 14:23:48   
kittycat
Member

They are quite a pain of if they inflict a critical strike or two.
AQ MQ  Post #: 44
7/14/2013 19:23:56   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


I've found that rather than going tech-based tank (which is right now the more popular one), dex-based is much better because the max block chance is far higher, and there are more options for forcing your opponent to use blockables rather than deflectables such as yeti's chomp and azrael's will.
Epic  Post #: 45
7/15/2013 14:25:29   
ED Divine Darkness
Member

emp doesnt need a nerf. merc can beat those BH builds IMO. loadsa Bounties cry to me that merc is OP, especially with my tank build and an assault bot.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 46
7/15/2013 14:27:46   
ED Divine Darkness
Member

quote:

I've found that rather than going tech-based tank (which is right now the more popular one), dex-based is much better because the max block chance is far higher, and there are more options for forcing your opponent to use blockables rather than deflectables such as yeti's chomp and azrael's will.

its actually the same block chance because higher tec reduces more dex with smoke, increasing your block chance more. and a better smoke increases damage output more.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 47
7/15/2013 15:04:14   
Ranloth
Banned


quote:

emp doesnt need a nerf. merc can beat those BH builds IMO.

Not everyone are Mercenaries.
AQ Epic  Post #: 48
7/15/2013 17:18:25   
BadWitch
Member

Do something about bounty class ...extremely oped..
Epic  Post #: 49
7/15/2013 17:42:16   
ED Divine Darkness
Member

do something about tec mage... extremely op...
any1 can say that about any class.
back your point up with why you think this.
i think all classes are blanced right now, except CH. CH is a little weak.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 50
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