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RE: =DF= Necromancer Armor Discussion Thread

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9/22/2014 8:02:15   
crabpeople
Member

I'm bumping this because I noticed that my precious necromancer has been nerfed. I got suspicious when yesterday I couldn't 1 shot 400hp mosnter with champion.

So I checked necromancer armor page and voila:

-S.Champion: from 3x70 crit 100% to 3x60 crit 100%.
-Dark boon duration from 5 turns to 3 (I could use elemental unity trinket and dark intent during boon buff after the seed combo. Now you can only finish the seed combo).
-Inspire terror enemies being more likely to hit you (not sure about this. Maybe I'm just more unlucky, but this used to be a reliable 1 turn stun).


The Paladin skill updated information has to come out today but I have the imprssion than pally is more powerful than necro while they should be in equal terms.

Master is not amused

< Message edited by crabpeople -- 9/22/2014 8:04:28 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 51
9/22/2014 8:41:20   
Ash
Member


 Yes, I stated it a little bit to high and had to bring it down just a tad. Inspire terror was no touched so you're just having bad luck on that one. I figured while I was data basing the DeathKnight weapons, working on the updated Artix guest, getting the Necropolis town adjusted for the DK shops, and fixing a few bugs in that area I might as well fix the two things that needed to be and be done with it so I don't have to go back later and do it.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 52
9/22/2014 8:52:49   
crabpeople
Member

So let me get this clear... Is this a small mistake that is going to be reverted once dk revamp is out for testing? or is it a "permanent" change?

Edit: Didn't know it was something that had to be fixed.
And now if you excuse I'm going to cry myself to sleep (drama queen mode on).

< Message edited by crabpeople -- 9/22/2014 9:02:47 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 53
9/22/2014 8:56:26   
Ash
Member


 No, this is a permanent change as Necro was stronger than it should have been. You're a defensive class, not an offensive one so having the crit skill of an offensive class wasn't correct. My bad for not fixing it sooner, I have a ton of things on my plate and I don't remember to fix EVERYTHING that I need to immediately.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 54
9/22/2014 9:02:00   
DarkLore
Member

I know this is a bit off topic, but we finally are going to get a scaleable Artix Guest?! OMG! We've waited ages for that! Too bad Malifact guest is out of the question. We realize you do indeed have a lot to don after reading that list! WHEW!
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 55
1/30/2016 18:50:11   
Eris Blackwood
Member

The Necromancer got nerfed? Oh noes! Oh well... at least the new design is nice

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AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 56
1/30/2016 20:00:02   
ergotth
AQW Lore-titician


 nerfed? I don't think so, its quite thepowerhouse when it comes to durability and DoTs. Sure its not strong in dmg, if you don't use the DoTs,ind this class able to even kick all avatars in the card shoppe.
DF AQW  Post #: 57
1/30/2016 20:16:15   
dark garuda
Member

Yeah, Necromancer's a damn solid class. Its final got nerfed by quite a few percent, but it's still a good attacking ability with everything considered, perhaps better than Necromancer deserves with its myriad of other advantages! Yes, it's not great at turn one wipeouts, but that isn't what the class is made for, that's quite deliberately its worst aspect.

I've always been of the opinion that the class is knocking on the door of Tier 3, actually outperforming certain T3 classes in certain areas, if likely not across the board. Even its closest relative of Dragon Lord doesn't look too favourable when judging offensive capability (Necromancer plays an excellent game against bosses with only average HP, but good damage, and is also excellent at taking the fight to enemy groups), although I'd say DL is almost always even better when on the defence... though, that's only noticeable in a few (admittedly key) cases such as When. But do you know any T2 which has a good to decent chance of dealing with that guy?

< Message edited by dark garuda -- 1/30/2016 20:17:12 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 58
1/31/2016 17:31:08   
dragon_master
Member

Easily one of the best classes available in-game.
Zorbak's Staff (the one doing Ebil damage,bought in Book 3 Rosewood) just goes so perfectly with armor itself.

Another weird thing: There appears to be a bug when fighting Ultra Merged Akriloth,(not sure about Merged Akriloth),when using Ward,your def is increased ''forever'', i.e. negative turns:
Could be other bosses too,but i haven't figured it out.
EDIT: (This isn't supposed to be exploiting a bug,but showing it.)
http://i.imgur.com/VnW3RrE.png

Image tag removed. Please avoid posting images in the forums, use the link feature instead.

For more information, please check your board rules using the Forum-Specific Rules & Complete Forum Index. ~Gingkage


< Message edited by Gingkage -- 1/31/2016 17:56:52 >
DF  Post #: 59
1/31/2016 18:18:44   
dark garuda
Member

^ I'm glad it's not just me who has encountered the issue in the past! It happened to me in the combat for Riftwalker armour versus 3 Rifters... I must admit it really saved my bacon there (they hit rather heftily). I have no idea what triggers it. For me, it ended up going to -6 odd turns.

< Message edited by dark garuda -- 1/31/2016 18:19:08 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 60
2/25/2017 6:54:27   
Keridan
Member

Ah, Necromancer. Offensive wise, it's an amazing class; the fact it's considered Tier 2 makes no sense to me, as with the right set up, it can do some MASSIVE damage, as well as have some good survivability to it with its health leech and resistance shield. Plus, it has somethings that Death Knight doesn't have, which is considered a Tier 3 class; a Mana heal and rather low MP consumption. But still, it's considered Tier 2, even if it hits like a Tier 3.

It's an amazing class, though personally I'm not a huge fan of the design. It looks too bulky to me, looks a bit too much like armor over robes. I mean, it's MUCH better now than what it looked like when it was first released; but still, I'd rather have something more gothic elegant. Oh well, guess Death Knight can help satisfy those needs of appearances.

Overall, amazing class, personally a fav of mine.
AQ DF  Post #: 61
2/25/2017 7:41:58   
Kaika
Member

I'd honestly say the class tier list is pointless in the game's current state. So many classes do different sorts of nonsense, and that can't quite be ranked on a tier list.
DF  Post #: 62
2/25/2017 10:46:03   
Sakurai the Cursed
Member

quote:

Ah, Necromancer. Offensive wise, it's an amazing class; the fact it's considered Tier 2 makes no sense to me, as with the right set up, it can do some MASSIVE damage

Erm... I mean, it can hit pretty hard, but it takes 4 turns of setup and has 9 turns of CD, and outside of that (buffed Seed+Familiar) it has rather low damage on most skills. So while it has good (but slow) burst, its average damage over time is low compared to offensive classes, and it has no large first-turn ability to quickly kill quest mobs either, so it's kinda low on the list of "best offense."

< Message edited by Sakurai the Cursed -- 2/25/2017 10:47:21 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 63
2/25/2017 11:43:25   
Skullkyopi
Member

@Kaika

I wouldn't say the tier list is useless. I think of it more in terms of RPG character stat building. Imagine SoulWeaver (Tier 2) having a base stat total of 20 when you create it and then Master SoulWeaver (Tier 3) having around 25 or 30.

The higher the tier, the more effects/power/utilities Verly can put into a class. I'm kinda excited with how the upcoming classes get built/balanced. I always did enjoy the class revamps we had with Ash.
DF MQ  Post #: 64
2/25/2017 11:46:20   
Kaika
Member

I dunno, some of the tier 2 classes seem more busted than a few tier 3 classes. Soulweaver also has access to Baltael's Aventail.
DF  Post #: 65
2/25/2017 11:58:41   
HwarangxDxArcher
Member

The tier only gave a general idea on how strong a class is. But depending on build and playstyle, a lower tier class can be more effective than a higher tier class. So, while it's not exactly useless, it's not exactly useful either.

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DF Epic  Post #: 66
2/25/2017 12:53:25   
Skullkyopi
Member

The reason I used the two SoulWeaver classes as examples is because they're essentially the same class but better in the case of the Tier 3 class. You can't really compare Riftwalker and Technomancer in a completely fair way, can you?

They each serve a different purpose. It's basically apples vs. grapes. Though, I don't like oranges...
DF MQ  Post #: 67
12/2/2017 17:10:41   
Greyor_42
Member

okay, since necro paragon just came out, i decided to do a little math(cue the screams of horror) based on the seed skill when used with raise:

okay, say your weapon damage(including STR/INT/DEX and LUK allocation) is 109-117 like mine, and your target has a resistance of 0 to the element your using. and like my stat build, you have a total of 193 LUK from stats and gear (that increases your crit damage multiplier from 175% to 194%) and from a total of your LUK and gear, you, like me, have a crit stat of 58. now, say you use dark boon, and on the turn that seed's delayed effect activates, you use raise minion get both the three-hit attack from seed, and the three hit attack from raise minion, while under the effect of boon, and by some miracle all six hits land as crits(you would have a 0.26851851851% chance of this happening, by the way, assuming my math is correct). you would deal a whopping 2144-2302 damage. and this is a defensive class.

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 12/2/2017 17:17:57 >
DF  Post #: 68
12/2/2017 18:14:31   
Sakurai the Cursed
Member

Yeah but that takes 4 turns of setup and 10 turns of CD lol... Asc for example can do like 3.5k every 5 turns if we're assuming all crits. And that's only counting Wand, but Asc also does good damage on the other skills before and after that. Just 'cause Necro can do high damage on 1 turn out of 10 doesn't mean they're a good offensive class. :p

Also, just a side-note, but using Seed with Raise is inefficient. If you get the 3-hit summon twice in a row it does the most damage in one turn, but you're still wasting damage. Using it with Familiar will do 160% per hit with Seed so you do less damage on that turn potentially but you'll always gain more damage overall, as you can just use Raise on another turn instead.

< Message edited by Sakurai the Cursed -- 12/2/2017 18:18:43 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 69
12/2/2017 18:47:22   
Greyor_42
Member

@sakurai the cursed

quote:

Just 'cause Necro can do high damage on 1 turn out of 10 doesn't mean they're a good offensive class. :p


i know. that's why i said THIS:
quote:

and this is a defensive class.


obviously there's going to be no comparison between necromancer and an offensive class. ESPECIALLY a tier 3 one like ascendant. but, as my point WAS, for a strictly defensive class like necromancer, being able to do that much damage in one turn is absurd.

quote:

Also, just a side-note, but using Seed with Raise is inefficient. If you get the 3-hit summon twice in a row it does the most damage in one turn, but you're still wasting damage. Using it with Familiar will do 160% per hit with Seed so you do less damage on that turn potentially but you'll always gain more damage overall, as you can just use Raise on another turn instead.


again, i know. like i said:
quote:

you would have a 0.26851851851% chance of this happening, by the way, assuming my math is correct


there's not even a 1% chance(0.26851851851% is just slightly better than 1 in 500 odds). of this happening. and yes, i know that familiar is overall a superior skill to use when seed procs. i use that strategy all the time.


i wasn't trying to say that necromancer/paragon is a borderline offensive class, or that seed+raise should be the go-to strategy for it. it was simply a bit of TRIVIA based on my curiosity of what the highest amount of damage i could potentially deal in one turn after noticing that a single crit when seed procced would deal somewhere around 480 damage when boon is active. i simply wanted to know just how far i could take that damage with my current set-up, and share that info. nothing more.

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 12/2/2017 18:49:50 >
DF  Post #: 70
12/2/2017 21:13:30   
Sakurai the Cursed
Member

Sorry, my mistake then. But it's because you said
quote:

and this is a defensive class
that's exactly why I thought you were saying it was strong offensively; the implication being that it's impressive or it shouldn't be able to do this since it's defensive.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 71
12/2/2017 21:54:48   
Greyor_42
Member

^

okay. see where you're coming from now. i mean, it IS pretty impressive for a tier 2 pure-defensive class to be able to deal more than 2,000 damage in a single turn, but it REALLY isn't worth the effort of trying to pull off. especially since, like you said, the attempt can only really be done every 10 or so turns. not to mention, it's very possible i flubbed the math on the chance of it happening and it might actually be even LESS likely to pull off than i said.



still an awesome class at what it does though. very solid defensive class, and paragon will be getting an artifact at some point so i can't wait to see what that changes.

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 12/2/2017 21:56:13 >
DF  Post #: 72
12/3/2017 19:15:57   
Sakurai the Cursed
Member

I think it probably is the defensive class that has the best offense though, since Pyro got incidentally nerfed by the change to DoTs which are the majority of its damage. And DragonLord could only ever compete if it was <20% HP so it could go berserk mode and spam Soul, but now that it has a BPD shield instead of MPM it can't even do that any more because an unlucky crit or two = dead.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 73
12/3/2017 20:11:15   
Greyor_42
Member

@sakurai the cursed

i mean, patience does give it an offensive presence, but yeah, of the purely defensive classes, necro does seem to be the strongest offesnively. though i haven't used ninja at all since long before the revamp, so i don't really know how THAT plays anymore.
DF  Post #: 74
12/3/2017 20:30:02   
Raviel193
Member

I've noticed with the Necro Paragon that Shroud summons a minion the turn after Seed's effect has already activated and it attacks for the last element I've been hit by. Is anyone else seeing this?

< Message edited by Raviel193 -- 12/3/2017 20:34:57 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 75
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