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RE: =DF= Necromancer Armor Discussion Thread

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12/7/2017 14:00:19   
elixxon
Member

Things hit too hard for that. Book3 quests require to blow defensive skills because the enemies just hit so ridiculously hard.
Were playing the Energy Orb questline for example and one hit dealt so much damage as the entire heal of a life tap, and Inner Will only recovers 64 mana with 35 WIS, which only slows down my mana burn.

Since Life Tap and Inner Will is % based building tanky stats could be an option, but then I'd just hit like a wet noodle which makes the game tedious and could potentially make the problem worse with longer fights=more hits taken with the already hard hitting enemies...
DF  Post #: 101
12/7/2017 14:21:23   
Greyor_42
Member

@elixxon,

quote:

Things hit too hard for that.


like i said, use dream, or fear ward. don't have to worry about losing health if the enemy can't hit you. remember, the player gets the first turn. that means that they get to set the pace in most non-boss fights. and with necromancer, said pace tends to lead to you ending a fight in pretty much the same condition you started it in.
DF  Post #: 102
12/7/2017 19:37:22   
Steel_King
Member

@elixxon

You said you were struggling with Book 3, but isn't Energy Orb in Book One?
Post #: 103
12/8/2017 3:02:23   
elixxon
Member

The damage is really amped up in that chapter for some reason. Mobs weren't so strong in Wind, Darkness, Light, and Fire chapters, nor in the Ravenloss arc.

In Book3 they hit so hard I have to open with the defense move and sometimes even the blind(except if the enemy has any bonus. In this case blind is useless.) of a class every fight or I'm down in three-four encounters max. Pretty much the reason why I can't use Shadow Hunter in those places(Who even thought it's a good idea to have a defense move that's effect activates the turn AFTER it was used??? How is Symone not dead already? Did she just trolled us?).
DF  Post #: 104
12/8/2017 3:06:15   
Centipede
Member

Overall i like the Necromancer, i only have 1 issue, and that is a personal gripe. I dont really like that the summon undead skill is as RNG reliant as it is. You either summon the berserker to hit 3 times for good damage, or the dog to hit once and practically have wasted your mana. I cant say this fit the (in my mind) pragmatic nature of a necromancer. But this is a personal issue and luckely not a big one :)
AQ  Post #: 105
12/8/2017 18:18:20   
Dark Lord Urmi
Member

@Baron that's assuming everyone is the kind of player who...well plays that way i've made it a point to point out how not great i am at the game i die all the time (probably because i can't stand how boring rotations are) as necro so obviously not everybody has this experience :/


I just don't see the point in messing with this class as its still going to be tier two it will just be less useful and reliable.

< Message edited by Dark Lord Urmi -- 12/8/2017 18:26:06 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 106
12/8/2017 18:30:17   
ArchNero
Member

Ok, so far, the shroud cooldown nerf seems to only apply, on the original necromancer. Necro Paragon however retains the original 11 CD on Shroud. I also cleared my cache just to make sure, and it still says 11 CD with shroud on Necro Paragon. Not sure if intended to make Necro Paragon, seem worth while but I highly doubt that.
Post #: 107
12/8/2017 18:35:21   
  Verlyrus
DragonFable Boxcat


 Necro Paragon's cooldown has been fixed.
AQ MQ  Post #: 108
12/8/2017 20:25:59   
Cherubic Card
Member

Verly why, I trusted you with the Shroud interaction and you betrayed me.

I'm hurt.
Post #: 109
12/26/2017 14:32:45   
King of Zards
Member

Necro Paragon looks pretty cool but that much teleshard grinding for a mere reskin is not exactly something I'd call "rewarding".
Post #: 110
12/26/2017 16:44:26   
Greyor_42
Member

@king of zards

a "mere reskin" whose also getting an artifact. and the teleshard hunting isn't actually that bad, assuming you just stick to the small mazes.
DF  Post #: 111
12/26/2017 17:43:17   
rater202
Member

Where can I find out about this Artifact that Paragon is getting?
AQ DF  Post #: 112
12/26/2017 19:00:05   
Luma
Member

You can get the Legion Bracer, which is speculated to give Necro Paragon changes in the future and is currently the best bracer in-game along with Eternal Locket (since they have the same stats), by beating the double challenge battle of the Abomination and Crawler at The Inn at the Edge of Time.
DF AQW  Post #: 113
4/22/2018 20:01:58   
Greyor_42
Member

So, I found out a thing with shroud that I never knew before. If you use it against an enemy that can also attack your mana, if they use the attack that targets mana afterwrds, it will heal your mana just like it would your health. However, it only works like this if you use it in response to an attack it does to your health. If done in response to an attack to your mana, it will give you a +140 resist to undefined instead.
DF  Post #: 114
4/22/2018 21:27:56   
Chaosweaver Amon
Friendly!


 @Greyor_42: So you have to first take a hit to HP, then to MP, then use shroud for it to heal mana? Or did I read that wrong?

EDIT: Or are you saying you have to have it activated before they attack your mana?

< Message edited by Chaosweaver Amon -- 4/22/2018 21:28:56 >
DF  Post #: 115
4/22/2018 22:57:09   
Greyor_42
Member

Before they attack the mana. If mana is the last thing they hit before you activate shorud, you gain resist to undefined, not the element they hit you with, so it becomes useless. But if say, the Magi Sentry(which is actually how I found this interaction), were to hit your health, and you activate shroud immediately after, then they attack your mana while shroud is still up, since they still attack with fear either way, it will heal your mana.

So the order it needs to go in for it to work is this: Enemy successfuly deals damage to health->necromancer immediately uses shroud->enemy will now heal either health or mana if they can target mana with their attacks.

This actually makes necromancer especially useful vs. manaphages if the last thing they do before your turn is the claw attack, because you can then shroud yourself, and if they do their drain attack, you just heal everything.

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 4/22/2018 23:01:12 >
DF  Post #: 116
4/23/2018 0:09:49   
Luckyjazzt
Member

Is Necro Paragon ever going to be updated to differ from Necromancer? It looks a lot cooler, but I would have liked if it was a like a tier 3 version of the class, sort of like the Atalean Classes or Master Soulweaver.
DF  Post #: 117
4/23/2018 1:20:00   
dragon_master
Member

That would make it broken tbh.
Best to leave it,as is.
DF  Post #: 118
4/23/2018 7:42:31   
BluuHorseOfficial
Member


 Actually, how would that break the class? They just told that they wnat it to be in a given power range and didn’t suggest anything more, so...
DF  Post #: 119
4/23/2018 10:17:03   
dragon_master
Member

It can already nuke for 1000-2000, what do you want it to be? a free Kathool Adept?

more heals by making Shroud give 200 resist to last attack's ele?

Necromancer, unlike Pyromancer, can nuke,and it's a tier 2 class,mind you.

< Message edited by dragon_master -- 4/23/2018 10:25:24 >
DF  Post #: 120
4/23/2018 10:33:25   
BluuHorseOfficial
Member


 No, it does nuke that much and stuff, but Seed and Shroud aren’t the moves I feel buffing is necessary for. Those are good. However, for the amount of work (not really, actually, the challenges are quite easy with DeathKnight) you do to get them, it could be made as strong as DeathKnight with the Legion Bracer equipped. My little thoughts (NOT SUGGESTIONS pls dont ban me plsplspls) would be Corruption being just as bad as the Abomination’s version of it, kinda like IBR’s long winter and Summon familiar doing (listed to make it easy)

  • 1 hit of 160% damage with the first use
  • 2 hits of 120% damage with the second use
  • 3 hits of 100% damage with the third use
  • 4 hits of 80% damage with the fourth use
  • X hits of 80% damage with X number of uses (where X is any natural number and X<4)
reminiscent of you-know-what.

And maybe Domination having a chance to insta-OHKO the target, why not?

Edit: Actually, then Familiar should have a 4 turn or 7 turn CD.

Post edited, see your inbox. ~Starflame13


< Message edited by Starflame13 -- 4/23/2018 13:44:04 >
DF  Post #: 121
4/23/2018 11:09:34   
Greyor_42
Member

@dragon_master

Yeah, but to get the upper numbers on that nuke, it has a chance of less than 1%(maybe a bit more at higher levels, but still not worth the effort, since it takes 4 turns of buildup, and 10 turns of cooldown each attempt to get the stronger nuke), as I pointed out with some math earlier, since it requires using raise instead of familiar, which horribly reduces the effectiveness of seed due to the fact that it has a 50% chance of giving something weaker than familiar.

@BluuHorseOfficial

So, you want to turn Necro Paragon into an Inn Challenge fight? That is terrifying. Especially considering the "Seed->Boon->Familiar" combo that we already have, alongside Familiar's already small cooldown. Chances are, the first time Seed procs with Familiar, you're already using the 3rd or higher use of Familiar, which would mean that you're doing either 5 hits of 100% damage, or 6 hits of 100% damage, assuming you're only on the 3rd use(and here's an example of how to do just that. Turn one use Familar, turn 2, use seed, then use familiar, then use boon, then use familiar, seed procs). On 4th or higher it's 6 or 7+X(X being any number from zero to infinity) hits of 80%. If you want to go that route, it needs to have a cap on how many hits it can deal. Then giving it a skill with a chance of OHKO-ing on top of that, and yes, it is kind of broken. A pure defensive class should never be able to contend with the offensive capabilities of BaltaelWeaver.

Making it as strong as deathknight is something I agree with. Making it as offensively powerful(over time) as BaltaelWeaver while keeping its defenses, however..........

< Message edited by Greyor_42 -- 4/23/2018 11:15:22 >
DF  Post #: 122
4/23/2018 11:24:01   
BluuHorseOfficial
Member


 I’d say the solution to that would be
A) Familiar’s cap would be 7 hits, so 560% damage
B) Familiar cancels Seed

Then again, we are talking about said Bracer being an artifact, so we can compare it to the Patience DL, which in 51 turns, grants a 102% PowerBoost per skill, so that means your skills will be 102% stronger. That easily makes up for the 7 turn cooldown of BaltySynchro and Valour Impact together, without which, the class isn’t too extraordinary, due to not having an infinite 30% PowerBoost (that regular SW/MSW gives via SoulSynch). And Necro Paragon deserves to be a few steps below PDL because my stupid meddlesome little hooves had to dig up a gu— the challenges are really easy, actually. So, NParagon in tier 3 but somewhat weaker than Pyromancer?

Post edited, see your inbox. ~Starflame13


< Message edited by Starflame13 -- 4/23/2018 13:45:42 >
DF  Post #: 123
4/23/2018 12:06:35   
Greyor_42
Member

^Well, artifacts tend to either bump a class up to the next tier, or bring it to the top of its current tier if it isn't already. Since regular SW and Necromancer are already at the top of Tier 2, NParagon's artifact would probably bump it up to Tier 2 in power/potential, like Baltael's Aventail did for SW. Not quite to the degree that BSW is, but still Tier 3.

quote:

A) Familiar’s cap would be 7 hits, so 560% damage
B) Familiar cancels Seed


So, you could either have a ramping nuke with familar, or an RNG burst nuke with raise? That works. Alternatively, one could remove a small amount of the RNG on Raise to make it more worthwhile to use with seed. Maybe make it 3 possible outcomes with two 1 hits and one 2 hits, instead of 1 hit, 1 hit, 1 hit, 2 hits, 2 hits, or 3 hits, and in exchange, slightly increase the damage of the hits based on which one you get. That way even the 50% chance of getting the 1 hit effect doesn't completely ruin the strategy(Let's see, it already does 130% damage per hit, so maybe buff it to 150% or 155% on a 1 hit, and keep the 130% for the 2 hit? That way, it will still deal a decent amount of damage on the nuke on the weaker version, and also make you more willing to try for the stronger version).
DF  Post #: 124
4/23/2018 23:39:06   
dragon_master
Member

Used Raise all the time,not sure what you're talking about.
DF  Post #: 125
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