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RE: 2vs2

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7/30/2013 22:27:44   
Mother1
Member

On another note I had a partner without any gear but his primary weapon just recently so I thought I would post this here. However this time around I me any partner won. they didn't see him as a threat and came after me. By the time they realized it it was too late.

wish I was recording it, however this experience is proof that you can win even with a partner like this if the factors and planning are on your side.
Epic  Post #: 51
8/1/2013 10:19:20   
lionblades
Member

Mother1: It is possible to win with a person with partial gear, but those are just cases not an all-rounded proof. In nearly every argument there will be an exception, but this will not account for the MAJORITY.
Besides, I have yet to see a player than can consistently win even around 40% of the time at high levels with a no geared partner in 2vs2.
Also, your partner most likely had upgrades to damage in the primary.
I have seen players in 2vs2 at the level 35 range with only a primary that is NOT upgraded whatsoever. Those players should be restricted until they have the gear.
AQW  Post #: 52
8/1/2013 17:45:44   
SKRALL213
Member

Wow cant believe this thread is still open xD

ANYway. Players with no gear lose 8 time out of 10 depending if their partner is good or not. Players don't bother to buy gear to save up credits or the fact they cant afford it. Maybe a battle mode players with no gear can play that does not count to the win/loss record but they can still earn credits like battling NPC's but it would be PvP. That I would support but since there is no such thing there cannot be a restrict.

In all honest I love this idea and would support it if it wasn't for the fact it forced to play 1v1 which destroys the win/loss ratio.. I have said all I can here.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 53
8/1/2013 18:14:59   
Dual Thrusters
Member

Maybe the game could warn the player if they were to sell their last of a kind of item. Like:

Warning! It is not recommended to sell your last auxiliary weapon!

Or something like that, just to make newer players afraid to sell their weapons.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 54
8/1/2013 19:02:24   
lionblades
Member

@Dual Thrusters
Thats a good idea. Many times I see newb players that have sold ALL their gear just for a rare weapon like the exile/legion battlegear. A warning could go a long way to prevent this.

This could guide newer players so they wont be forced into playing 2vs2 with no gear ruining other players battles. No geared players are really a pain to be partnered up with!
AQW  Post #: 55
8/1/2013 22:12:57   
SKRALL213
Member

@Dual Thrusters
That is a nice idea indeed. Some players don't do things that says its a bad idea. But allot of players (Like me for one) wont care if its a bad idea to sell a item for a better one. As I said there are some players who would listen to the warning and not sell there items. In this case the lower levels.

< Message edited by SKRALL213 -- 8/1/2013 22:13:35 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 56
8/3/2013 20:56:29   
Queen brutella
Member

quote:

They should be able to afford it.



You cannot necessarily state that. There maybe many reasons to why they cannot afford gear ; somebody stated earlier that not everyone has varium and that's completely true. Although a lvl 35 with OP gear and a lower lvl with not so great gear have biggest chance of winning , you can't always blame the lower level. I personally believe its the way they match up teams. Also you can't just farm the npc's as you only have a limited daily so how can you afford money?



Epic  Post #: 57
8/3/2013 22:28:49   
lionblades
Member

@Queen brutella
There are only a few ways a person cannot earn gear:

1. Newer players sell all there gear for a cool looking rare item (eg. Exile/Legion Battlegear) in game
-Solution: Dual Thrusters suggested a warning for selling their last gear

2. To low level that you can not earn up the credits
-My suggestion excludes lower levels until a certain level where have earned a lot of credits (around 100k)

Also, courtesy to Mother1:
quote:

100 NPC wins a day which adds up to 2200 credits-3700 credits

Farming NPC's even with the limit adds up to quite some credits; 3-4 days of this can earn you a full upgraded sword with JUST NPC's.
AQW  Post #: 58
8/3/2013 22:38:41   
Mother1
Member

@ lionblades

Ok So forcing players to farm NPC for credits for 3-4 days which as I said before lowers the player pool even more so they can get gear at a slower rate might I add just because of the chance you might get paired with them which you want gone is fair? Yeah that sounds right.

If you don't know this they cap rewards at 100 wins per pop for NPC because farming NPC too much would do harm to the game in the form of lag. I myself have actually done that one (fought NPC for 100 wins) and I can agree with it since I was lagging more since I was fighting them more often.

If players are forced to farm NPC for 100 wins because 2 vs 2 is restricted for them it will hurt the game health since there will be huge lag from all those people who are trying to farm NPC so they can actually play 2 vs 2.

So my reasons for not supporting are this

1 It cuts into the player pool which is already small
2 It forces players to play modes they don't want to play
3 It will cause player to NPC more which was proven to cause extra lag which will harm the game overall.
Epic  Post #: 59
8/3/2013 22:47:38   
lionblades
Member

@Mother1

1. Once they players earn the gear they can play 2vs2 again; this pays off in the long run where players can actually fight 2vs2

2. You previously stated, people have a better chance to play 2vs2 because 1vs1 is a "sure" loss for them; with your logic NPCs are the best option for people with no gear because it is easier to win

3. It will not cause many players to NPC more; many capped players (or close) have all the gear they need; this is for the very few with no gear.

AQW  Post #: 60
8/3/2013 23:30:42   
SKRALL213
Member

Why not just give new players more credits when they start off besides 1000? Also just to note that this idea has a "Loop Hole" (Or what ever you wanna call it) because I know there is two auxiliary that can be bought for 1250 credits and a sidearm that can be bought for 500 credits. Most likely players will just buy the cheapest gear and not upgrade it just for 2v2 till they make enough credits to buy the ones they want. Meaning even with gear they will just buy it just to play 2v2 and not upgrade it at all or use it. Once new players fine out how to 2v2 or if it tells them how, they will save up to buy the cheapest auxiliary and sidearm they can fine.

I do agree farming a NPC isn't hard at all. With my TM alt I did that till I could get it a auxiliary. True 1v1 is a "Sure" loss for every player if they don't got a counter to Glass cannon builds and BM's with or without Azreal. But I do agree that NPC farming can make anyone bored and not want to play. 1v1 is boring and fast (Which is why I play 2v2) leading to what I said, they will buy the cheapest sidearm and auxiliary.

< Message edited by SKRALL213 -- 8/3/2013 23:33:03 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 61
8/4/2013 10:16:40   
lionblades
Member

I don't really think that is a "loop hole":

Even if player have the cheapest alux or gun, they still have to upgrade it

I personally made a mistake on selling my gear, and had no gear in 2vs2. I quickly realized I was a burden and decided to NPC so I could be useful (this was before the NPC limit but I rarely went over 100). After only 2 weeks I had all my gear with some cores as well.

I still use the "cheap" weapons even though I have around 130k because I am saving up for the Azrael weapons next year.
AQW  Post #: 62
8/4/2013 12:26:22   
ED Divine Darkness
Member

i got an idea. give new player no starting credits, but basic gear. an energy gun, physical aux, and the basic primary of their class. they get free upgrades till level 10.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 63
8/4/2013 14:23:19   
SKRALL213
Member

@Lionblades
True but like I said they might not upgrade it and just have to play 2v2 and save up to buy the stuff they want. I just battled someone with gear but they had no bonus stats and the player had low damage on their gear. As in they never upgraded the damage on them. I admit I use a cheap auxiliary knowing I can get one easy like you can but why waste credits.

The thing is some players don't care if they got no gear or not and they complain when they lose. (One player called me a noob because I used my auxiliary on him)
You are right its not much of a loop hole but its something.

I kinda like how new players get starting credits. It is their choice if they wanna waste it on a armor or use it for gear.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 64
8/4/2013 14:37:31   
Mother1
Member

@ skrall213

unlike in delta and before you start out with armor. The basic armor. It may not look like much, but it is still armor that you can power up. Omega already is an improvement over delta and before because you start with a primary item, and an armor not just the primary like back in delta and before.

But yeah I mentioned that loophole as well about getting the cheapest armor just so they could play back when people made this suggestion back in delta.
Epic  Post #: 65
8/4/2013 23:12:56   
lionblades
Member

Hey Skrall,
quote:

The thing is some players don't care if they got no gear or not and they complain when they lose. (One player called me a noob because I used my auxiliary on him)

Most players in 2vs2 do care if you dont not have any gear. Also, if the player with no gear calls you a noob for having gear that is funny because it is so ironic lol

Also, like I stated before this loop hole does not exist as even with the cheapest gear, upgrades are still needed...
AQW  Post #: 66
8/4/2013 23:32:46   
SKRALL213
Member

Hmm should of made my self more clear xD When I meant "they" I mean the players with no gear. I know the players who got gear and get a partner with no gear care. ALLOT. It is ironic but (Off topic) there are players of level 3 to 10 that challenge me and say easy win for them and then get mad when they lose. I tell them that's life. Point being some low level players think their all that and wont want gear. (I met some players like that though they did end up getting gear at level 27 or higher.)

And no upgrades aren't needed. They are but its a choice to players if they wish to upgrade it or not.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 67
8/5/2013 10:04:21   
lionblades
Member

^ That is what I am suggesting; upgrades are to be needed to play 2vs2, which makes the loop hole invalid.

Quote from you: "Point being some low level player think their all that and wont want gear"

My suggestion is not to restrict lower level players, but only higher levels where they have already earned there gear; at lv35 there is no reason why you should not have gear.

Also, you state a lot of players end up with having gear at lv27 or higher.

I agree with this, at higher levels more players tend to have full upgraded gear which makes the player pool decreasing by a large amount invalid.
AQW  Post #: 68
8/5/2013 13:24:57   
SKRALL213
Member

Hmm I can support that, that a player has to have upgraded gear. Get a auxiliary or sidearm for a short amount of credits but cant use it till they upgrade it. That would be a smart idea.
4 out of 10 of my battles in 2v2 I get a partner or I battle someone with no gear or just a sidearm. I can name five reasons of to why players don't have gear. (That I might have listed or some already have)
1) They cant afford it.
2) They don't want gear.
3) They sold it to get something else they want.
4) Maybe got hacked and lost all their stuff gear.
5) They think they don't need it and end up not getting it till a certain level.


I do agree that its not decreasing the player pool. It is decreasing but not because of that.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 69
8/5/2013 13:33:43   
lionblades
Member

Thanks for supporting my idea Skrall213 :)


< Message edited by lionblades -- 8/5/2013 13:45:31 >
AQW  Post #: 70
8/5/2013 13:36:00   
Dual Thrusters
Member

some players don't upgrde for more reasons.

-I don't have any strength. Full support build. I'm not going to upgrade my gun's damage, just the stats.
-My glass cannon need more firepower. Ill upgrde the weapon's damage instead of the stats first.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 71
8/5/2013 13:43:47   
lionblades
Member

@Dual Thrusters
Those are not real reasons to not upgrade gear unless one is lacking the credits which is highly unlikely if one is at the high end of the level spectrum

For your example on glass cannons, glass cannons do need the stats to play competitively in 2vs2 or otherwise they will die way to easily without additional skill points

Furthermore, your quote:"I'm not going to upgrade my gun's damage, just the stats"
A support build utilizes the damage of the alux and the skill points of support thus support builds do use both upgrades
Upgraded stats and damage points will only help the player play more competitively in 2vs2.
AQW  Post #: 72
8/5/2013 13:59:57   
Mother1
Member

@ lionblades

If your build doesn't need something to work why should the person be forced to get something for it or be banned from playing a battle mode?

If I do use a support build, why should I be forced to update the damage for my gun when I am not using it? Or if I am using a full strength build why should I be forced to update the damage for my aux when it is going be worthless to my build when I only need the stats of the item?

That is what Dual is getting at.

You can't just tell people they need to update something that they don't need to update or you can't play a certain battle mode especially if it is not needed for said build.
Epic  Post #: 73
8/5/2013 14:13:03   
lionblades
Member

@Mother1
Why should you be forced to upgrade?
That's flawed logic, the reason you upgrade is so that you won't be a burden in 2vs2. If you don't want to upgrade in 2vs2 because you dislike being forced by any reason that is being selfish for your own gains.

Sure, play with no gear in 1vs1, it won't affect anyone besides you. And ONLY you. Not anyone else.
In 2vs2 it is a whole different story, you are playing with a teammate that will be affected your actions one whether or not you choose to have gear.
It is called 2vs2 for a reason, the actions of a person without gear affects the whole team.
That is why gear is important in 2vs2.
AQW  Post #: 74
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