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RE: A balanced ED; Is balance what we want?

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8/6/2013 17:36:42   
Chosen 0ne
Banned


 I think an important question to ask is wether or not we actually want 100% balance.
I changed the title to reflect this.
Would you play epic duel if everybody hit 20 damage each turn with no diversity? No luck factors, just a long boring and gratuitous battle. If everything in Epic Duel was balanced 100%, I would quit.

Things just need to be reasonable. At the moment things are not reasonable. This is what we should try working on.

< Message edited by Chosen 0ne -- 8/6/2013 17:39:04 >
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 26
8/6/2013 17:44:15   
Dual Thrusters
Member

I personally think the game is balanced right now.

We just need more diversity from players, and in order to do that we need to make skills more flexible.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 27
8/6/2013 17:50:29   
Chosen 0ne
Banned


 I think the only thing that needs to be balanced is skill cores.

It's mostly the azrael set. (Did I spell it right?)

Those 2 weapons are game breaking.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 28
8/6/2013 17:54:34   
Ranloth
Banned


 Power comes at a price. It's "overpowered" because we don't see cores - yet - with power similar to that of Azrael's Set. We could classify vast majority of in-game cores + promotional ones at a Basic stage whilst Azrael's Will/Torment could fall under more Advanced.

If it's "overpowered" and will not be once we have more cores and likely more advanced ones (read: better effects, more variety), then Azrael's Set isn't overpowered at all. It'd be unjust to nerf it now and possibly want to buff it later on, and having the rare buffing policy get in the way. :/

Also, I'm seconding Dual's statement. Balance is quite good right now. It's not perfect but it's pretty good.
AQ Epic  Post #: 29
8/6/2013 17:55:19   
Mother1
Member

@ chosen

Take a look at the choice of cores we have now. If you look at them you will see we have very few new cores. With so few I am not surprised Azreal's will and heart attack in an aux are running a muck.
Epic  Post #: 30
8/6/2013 17:56:19   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 @Trans but isn't that the point of the balance tracker? To watch over the battle results of the public servers so we can be the balance testers while the testers make sure other more important things work; shops, quests, cores and the battle mechanics.

A balanced ED would be were nothing is blowing people out of the water in terms of power but there is in fact a defined power gap so things aren't balanced perfectly. In fact what I think all of us want is something close to balance with some imbalance left over because as Chosen kindly pointed out true balance would get boring
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 31
8/6/2013 18:04:13   
Dual Thrusters
Member

Hmm... so the solution is make more strong aux cores?

I'll whip a few up in the suggestions.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 32
8/6/2013 18:06:22   
Ranloth
Banned


 Indeed, stronger cores. Power comes at price, and price here will be Credits/Varium. In other words, you could translate it to temporary Varium advantage in case of Azrael's Will/Torment because there aren't any alternatives nor anything as strong in power - effect wise.

The lack of cores shouldn't be a subject to nerf either. Only because there is nothing now, it doesn't mean it'll be left empty in the future. Nerfing now and buffing later is just double the work when you can just leave it alone and focus on new stuff.
AQ Epic  Post #: 33
8/6/2013 18:07:27   
Chosen 0ne
Banned


 @dual
That's not the way to go.

What happens after that? Even more powerful cores? Then what next? Even more powerful cores? See where I'm going here?
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 34
8/6/2013 18:11:39   
Ranloth
Banned


 If you make three categories, say "Basic, Intermediate and Advanced", you could make cores for each category. Basic ones are all the ones currently in-game available for everyone to purchase. Azrael's Torment could possibly fall in the Intermediate section, but Azrael's Will is stronger when you look at the effect thus falling in Advanced.

If it's going to be done in such way, the power could be kept at bay and you could get cores depending on your available funds and get appropriate power for the price you've paid. Since we have the new consumable cores, players could get the temporary advantage and farm for the more advanced ones.
AQ Epic  Post #: 35
8/6/2013 19:23:31   
Lycan.
Member

quote:

you could get cores depending on your available funds and get appropriate power for the price you've paid.

I agree with Trans 100%
Epic  Post #: 36
8/6/2013 19:27:13   
sky222
Member

quote:

I think the only thing that needs to be balanced is skill cores.

It's mostly the azrael set. (Did I spell it right?)

Those 2 weapons are game breaking.


If so, that would mean that the game would be balanced without them. For that matter, let's just remove all cores and robots. I think we should have a balanced game to work off of from the start and then put cores and balance those, not try to slam cores and robots on immediately and balance it all at once which is much harder.
Is the game balanced without any cores? I don't know since I haven't played in a while.

And to those who say the game is balanced right now: would you also say the game is fun? If no, how would you make it fun without making it imbalanced?

@below it was a thought experiment

< Message edited by sky222 -- 8/6/2013 21:06:36 >
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 37
8/6/2013 20:06:36   
Dual Thrusters
Member

I'm actually having a lot of fun with the game right now.

And I would never support the removal if robots. I guess I could if it was needed...


Post edited to remove unnecessary content ~M4B

< Message edited by Melissa4Bella -- 8/7/2013 17:35:42 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 38
8/7/2013 17:06:17   
newtena
Member

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEES!
every thing was perfect in the first place we just needed a couple health per level and a little defence in the game. you nerfing the epic things and we have to rely on strength we also need mor mana to devastate opponent. if we put our stat points health our rate of health depletion increases due to less defence. if our health were 170 at level 33 and mana replenish 10 per turn each round THEN IT WILL BE EPIC FUN AND STRATIGIC DUE TO ACCESSIVE RAGE AND COMBOS. increase the level points caps on skill trees a bit.

< Message edited by newtena -- 8/7/2013 17:07:39 >
Post #: 39
8/16/2013 13:52:09   
Archlord Raistlin
Member
 

 It is no longer possible for this game to be enjoyable overall, unless ED gets back to some basics.

Quickly tired of the game setting up constant impossible matches, 35 + 29 vs 35 + 35, etc...
I have played for a very long time, I make the right move most of the time, but it matters not...
1. Matches can be set up so poorly, maybe 5 or 6 times in a row.
2. In-game luck or random chance is not random at all.
3. Low level players can block 2 or 3 times in one match while critting twice.
4. Scenarios repeat over and over when the same strokes of bad luck occur, allowing someone to
stay alive or causing a loss.
5. Whatever has been changed to allow legion to be more competitive in the war might sound like
a good idea, but has made so many of the battles a joke.

I have not commented for 2 weeks, to really consider luck versus in-game battle engine tampering.
The state of the game is terrible, and the dev's do not seem to understand that there's a difference
between losing and being "forced" to lose. No one minds losing good battles, but there are rarely
any good battles anymore...all are governed and feel totally predetermined by the battle engine.

Sure, luck goes both ways, but it does not go "equally" both ways in my experience. All this tampering being
done to cover up the fact that the latest war idea was poor, balance has been lost and they are trying to make it
work. The missle idea was a good feature to add and has some entertainment value, but does it really have
to be such a credit drain on everyone? Why can't it be 200 credits to fire a turret? Then you're not losing
600 credits each time.

Hopefully there is some group who is benefitting from these ill-conceived changes and can actually enjoy the game.
Post #: 40
8/16/2013 14:23:31   
Sensei Chan
Member

Nope I hate ED now since all this nerfing and balance I miss Delta so bad I remember being a blood mage with over 160 HP winning 84% of battles and being second on the LB!
Epic  Post #: 41
8/16/2013 16:51:42   
Actual
Member

My beliefs on why EpicDuel can and will never be a balanced game?

1. The matchmaking system is not skill based whatsoever, 30's go against 35's all the time, it is almost impossible odds.
2. Build copiers ruin the game making it a non diverse game now days, back in Beta and Gamma, people actually tried to make new builds.
3. The new Core system is just total garbage, there is too much of luck factors in this game, no more skill. The person with the most cores wins...


I believe since this game has ended its testing phases, it has just gone downhill overall. I still enjoy playing it, considering I have payed hundreds of dollars on this game.
It is a fun game still, I just don't know where it is going from here, the luck in this game is ridiculous. Since Gamma, my W/L ratio has gone from 85% to like 64%. I don't
know what everyone opinions are, but I believe my time on ED is going to come to an end here shortly.
AQW Epic  Post #: 42
8/16/2013 19:56:22   
Predator9657
Member

^

1. They don't stay 30 for long.

quote:

The person with the most cores wins...

So if both people have 8 cores, does the battle result in a draw?
Epic  Post #: 43
8/17/2013 11:29:15   
kosmo
Member
 

 People here expressed alot of opinions but offered very few solutions, I have an idea.What game really is lacking of these days is variety, but totally reworking balance isnt the only way to solve the problem and not the best way either.Imagine new fresh and powerful weps with a new requirment, that doesnt allow you to use them together with other specific weps, forcing you to play differently.For example I might not use a wep together with arzel will, or poison bot forcing me to do a brand new build with its own flow.In my opinion this would help them keeping the game fresh, having variety in builds and not badly affecting balance.What do you think?Would you accept this requirment?Maybe next time we can have something better than 3 different animations of the oldest core ever made.
Epic  Post #: 44
8/19/2013 1:50:49   
Archlord Raistlin
Member
 

 @kosmo

There is alot of variety of gear, yet it all has the potential to be the same. But I know what you mean
about the few OP weaps in the game. There could be a restriction on multiple equips of azreal items,
forcing you to use only one at a time, etc... This would be a nerf and you know how ppl like nerfs...but
I think its an idea worth considering.

The problems are obvious and the dev's have dug a deep hole that I doubt they can get out of now.
Someone said Epicduel is becoming a dress-up game, and really that is not far off the mark. Gear is
mostly all the same, battles are so messed up that it's barely fun even to win a 2v2 match anymore.

I am not sure what strategy ED is following, but when your best customers think it suks...maybe there's
a problem. Apparently we are all replacable...I just wonder if the replacements are everything the dev's
hoped they would be.

Post #: 45
8/19/2013 2:47:33   
kaiseryeux21
Member

@archlord, i agree with your last statement there. It maybe hard to accept. But its very obvious the devs are trying to attract new customers. Yes, they did obviously attract new customers but it might have been fine if they did not loose old and loyal players. I myself was a non var player since beta, but i am now starting to doubt if removing enhancements was definitely necessary. I know lots of complains arises during delta with all the so-called "GAP" between non var and varium players but atleast some things were avoided. Example is build copying. During Delta, only few players are able to copy a certain build because others can't afford to fully enhance their items especially non var. As a result, non vars usually tend to change to other class or create a certain builds to counter what is slightly OP build. Meaning, more variety of builds are coming out. But now in Omega, its very much easy to copy a particular build because of the equality of stats. More players are becoming lazy to create their own unique build. Well, you can't blame them. "Why should i create my own build when i can just copy a certain OP build without putting a lot of effort"? Plain and simple.
The way i see it, things will remain the same in this game. Balanced will never be achieved, lets be realistic. But the dev's can focus on other features that can make this game still enjoyable and fun to use. Just look at the suggestion forums, theres a lot of ideas that if only given the chance, can make this game rise to its current state. Goodluck devs.
DF Epic  Post #: 46
8/20/2013 9:07:17   
kosmo
Member
 

 @Archlord Rustlin, what I suggested is not a nerf to existing weps but a requirment to apply to future gears, so new powerful and fresh cores can be broght in to the game.I want some fresh stuff, not just expensive costumization and players would accept some limitation for it to happen.
@Kaiseryeux, build copyng always existed, even in beta; what tyhey majority of players can t copy are strategic builds that require knowlage and many different strategies and uses in battle, like some focus builds that people would never be able to copy.This game isn t finished at all, devs are taking their time with this war, but once its over I m sure they are working something out with balance, that at the moment isnt so messed up like people think.
Epic  Post #: 47
8/20/2013 9:44:22   
Tri Phoenix
Member

hey guys i was thinking and if the admins cant depower the op classes how about we make other classes which are up op and make all classes op so that some classes wont be op and up all the classes will be op.
ik that some of u will think this is a bad idea but i think that this is the only way ed can be balanced.
AQW Epic  Post #: 48
8/20/2013 10:04:23   
Chosen 0ne
Banned


 @tri Phoenix

That goes along with my theory that if everything is OP nothing is. I like it.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 49
8/20/2013 10:21:22   
Tri Phoenix
Member

@Chosen One
Well if the staff and the mods cant balance the game this is the only choice
AQW Epic  Post #: 50
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