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9/14/2013 4:22:23   

Do you think they're too powerful? Too weak? Or just right?

Explain/ justify your answer.
AQW Epic  Post #: 1
9/14/2013 4:35:59   

too lucky.

on more than 1 occasion i was stunned twice in a row.

and i seen partners get stunned alot aswell.

and exile leader was extremely hard to beat. i had to get a heal loop focus merc and a heal loop focus tlm in order to beat him. his damage output + his defense is just insane.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 9/14/2013 4:38:49 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 2
9/14/2013 4:44:19   

just right very hard but better that way
Epic  Post #: 3
9/14/2013 4:44:27   

certainly a BOSS. They are not too powerful instead, too many moves with chance to stun and oftentimes, they really stunned players. Admin. 10 even stun my partner twice a row using overlord and stun grenade. we were able to beat admin. 10 with a focus ch partner and me as a focus bm. it was a close battle but admin became dumb on the last rounds of the fight. My partner has 4 hp left and he kept on hitting me while im having 78 hp. I guess we are just lucky. Try my luck on exile later. goodluck.

P.S, its virtually impossible to beat these bosses with 2 bms. May it be str, focus, or tank.

< Message edited by kaiseryeux21 -- 9/14/2013 4:45:43 >
DF Epic  Post #: 4
9/14/2013 5:05:26   

My BM friend got slaughtered, so how do you beat them?
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 5
9/14/2013 5:59:03   

im using focus bm with infernal android. I must say we also have a couple of blocks since my partner is a ch with pretty decent defenses and shadow arts. my partner got killed and i manage to have a 42 hp left.
DF Epic  Post #: 6
9/14/2013 6:51:01   

Using full Physical is the way to go, for both, Exile Leader and Admin 10. I've tried both set-ups yesterday and they seem to have around 4-6 less Def than they have Resistance. If we take into account a long battle, this will make a significant difference.

I've used Focus 5 BM but didn't change my build, so I've had mid-high DA and mid-high BL, as well as Lvl 4 Heal and other skills which were useless (could've maxed likes of DA and BL). All I did with Spartan was Smoke + Heal loop. Twice Smoke and rest was heals from both of us + Generator for EP and HP. Smoke isn't necessary, instead you can invest in high Heal which can do as good. I'd say Mercs may have a bit more luck due to Static Smash + HA to get high defences and keep stealing EP for Heal-loops but I haven't tried it myself. Likewise with TMs, minus HA but Reroute.
AQ Epic  Post #: 7
9/14/2013 7:33:04   
King FrostLich

The bosses are the most challenging NPC's I've faced. They're however quite overpowered and actually require a few blocks to win. Still, I think their hybrid armor should be removed because they have such high defenses. I'll comment later about what builds each class needs.
Epic  Post #: 8
9/14/2013 9:30:36   
Bionic Bear

Fighting Admin 10 and he stuns twice in a row with stun grenade/plasma grenade combo. Used overload also but he didn't stun, thankfully... I wouldn't mind one of those skills being removed from them.
Post #: 9
9/14/2013 9:37:19   

Quite challeging boss. I like it that way. I had some really fun time trying to defeat those bosses.
AQW Epic  Post #: 10
9/14/2013 10:41:42   

They are strong I will give that. Energy draining and heal looping are a must to beat these guys. However they get too lucky for my tastes at times. Then stun and crit more than any other boss I fought.
Epic  Post #: 11
9/14/2013 10:48:50   
Silver Sky Magician

Formidable. I don't think I'll try my hand at them again until level 36.
Post #: 12
9/14/2013 10:52:09   

I got stunned by Exile Leader's Plasma Grenade and then when I was still stunned, I got stunned by a Stun Grenade. My friends we laughing so hard at it.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 13
9/14/2013 11:00:47   

^ am i the one u referring laughing hard at it?? :-)

the only problem is the stun rate which is ridiculous. perhaps the chance to stun is nearly 80%. i hope the dev's can confirm if they intentionally increase the stun rate of the new boss coz its really ridiculous. double stun is is insane. Just saying.
DF Epic  Post #: 14
9/14/2013 11:02:15   

It's 30%, just like our skills. They have the same skills as we do, problem could be our Support and we don't know their Support either hence why they may get "crazy" Crits so often. Likewise with Dex and Tech, really.
AQ Epic  Post #: 15
9/14/2013 11:08:07   

@trans, perhaps its more than 30%. based on experience, its definitely more than that percentage. And with support, i highly doubt they have that high support because if they do, they must have high damage with their aux but they didn't. I know they are boss, im not complaining because i have already beaten them both with sheer luck. But the stun rate is definitely not normal. a single stun every other round might be fine, but double stun coupled with crit sometimes??? virtually impossible to recover. Just saying.

< Message edited by kaiseryeux21 -- 9/14/2013 11:11:00 >
DF Epic  Post #: 16
9/14/2013 11:17:02   

I know. I've fought them both but wasn't Stunned as much, not at least double stun. You could say I was stunned every second use, sometimes every third. So higher than 30% but that's anecdotal data for you - not always a reliable sample unless it's a high number of times (i.e. 100 stun uses).

If anything was to be changed with the Bosses, I'd say take away one Stun skill (they have two). This will reduce the chance to get stunned so many times, because they can do it twice in the row. HA could stay, really, it just takes some skill to beat. Just that double Stun skill.
AQ Epic  Post #: 17
9/14/2013 11:25:34   
King FrostLich

Ok now that I'm back from my nap, here's some types of builds that can defeat the bosses:

1.) Two Strength Tech BH
2.) Strength Tank TLM and Strength BM
3.) Strength BM and Strength Tech BH
4.) 5 Focus BH and Strength Tech BH
5.) Caster Tech Mage and Strength Tank TLM
6.) 2 Strength Tank TLM
7.) Strength Tank TLM and Strength Tech BH
8.) Static Strength Tech Merc and Strength Tank TLM

So far, I've only seen one caster mage have both the achievements. The bosses' defenses have quite large defenses and they have 3 stun moves. It's indeed annoying that they have 3 stun moves but they happen to be the weakest attacks they do next to their gun and aux. I find it quite ironic that even though I had just 1 point of defense lower than resistance, their energy strikes deal more damage than their gun with deadly aim.(Admin 10 and Exile Leader both have energy primaries and physical guns and bazookas) I've calculated the defenses of Admin 10 and he's got about 36-44 defense and about 38 - 46 resistance. Exile Leader has about 33 - 40 defense and has 39-47 resistance at the same time both bosses having 55+ damage by their primaries alone. Their gun and bazooka is somewhat weak though in my theory, the devs coded their weapons to be at a lower damage but coded their stats at a higher point.

This means that it is possible that Admin 10 and Exile Leader can have about 19 - 23 + 33 auxiliary damage which explains their ability to crit alot and often stun players at a flat 30% chance. As for their guns, I think they simply coded it to be +32 base damage and left deadly aim at a lower or middle level. Their primaries however were to have +36 or +40 base damage with high strength stat since I noticed one moment that their power skills(berzerker and double strike) greatly increase their damage output at low levels(Both bosses use 33 mana for berzerker which is only 60% increased weapon damage)

As for the classes that try to beat them, having a strength tank TLM as your partner with high field medic(about level 6 does the JOJ right) is the best partner you can have. Though they do 18 - 24 damage per attack, rage does enough damage to last the entire match. Also, you can heal loop while you're attacking and a little luck factor is needed to win the match. As for me winning against 2 of these bosses, Admin 10 took 2 tries with a strength tank TLM and another 2 for Exile Leader. It's funny though how we won against Exile Leader, we were lucky that he spammed gun, aux, stun grenade instead of using his power skills and gave us enough time to beat him.

IMPORTANT NOTE: All bosses will IMMEDIATELY start healing themselves when reaching 300 hp or below.(30% of their hp) This should be helpful when you think your partner might die but the boss has almost less than 300+ hp. This can be advantageous as the boss will always skip a turn to heal(they only heal 38 hp) and you might trick them into having rage attacks all of a sudden.

< Message edited by King FrostLich -- 9/14/2013 11:45:40 >
Epic  Post #: 18
9/14/2013 12:07:16   

Focus Cyber and focus BH owns the bosses. Just keep a low level smoke on them and attack while the CH heals when necessary.
AQW Epic  Post #: 19
9/14/2013 12:32:05   

Here is other pairs that can beat the bosses:
1) 2 Tank medium str BHs
2) 1 Tank medium str BH with a 5 focus BM

Also bots can be helpful in this case. I always used Pyro Fly to beat both bosses. Its special became handy. With Rayman we tried using two pyros but it didn't work so he equipped gamma bot.
Going offensive rather than being defensive helps too, but that doesn't means you will dump every energy on smoking/malfunction. Equipping a primary and striking everytime you can, helps you gain rage faster and higher chances to block his attack.
The defense and resistance should consist and follow this for better effects:
Defense should consists of +30-36
and Resistance +25-30 +10(armor)
It is better than both partners have + 10 res in armor, that way generator gives you +25 energy when using it, meaning +50 recovering of energy which would be enough for two heals, and 1 more if you still have a bit of energy to complete the 3rd one.
Using full physical equipment will help you deal higher damage.
Good luck to the ones who haven't beat him yet.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 20
9/14/2013 12:35:06   

Permission from Mir to Upload: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0iw0AYKdFo&feature=youtu.be Their is a brief moment including the build. However, what YOU do in battle is your decisions.
AQW Epic  Post #: 21
9/14/2013 13:06:21   

i dont find the new bosses too difficult at all.. and im only level 34...

im tank/heal loop merc, and i paired up with a buddy of min, also a heal looping mage, against admin 10 and we won on the first try. basically, we were able to force him out of mana and health in about the same time... took like 15 minutes, but e never had a moment when we thought we would lose, and that was with a my weaker bot. also got admin 10 down to 100 hp with a bounty hunter, without heal llop, after which he got a crit stun and a crit berserk, so i'd say he got pretty lucky.. :/ we lost when he had 48 hp... but nonetheless, shoulda been doable..
exile on the other hand... i think his def is too high compared to his strength.. i think his def should be cut in half, and just give him bloodlust, instead. what has happened two times now, is him critting on berserk... which apparently deals about 80 damage, cause he did 56 damage in turn, with his energy weapons. my resistance was 39.. so cut that in half... you get about 56+20= 76 ... you see the big picture...

another option would be to lower his strength by 15%, and give him blood lust.

my main problem isnt that his stats are too high, but when his stats combine with any luck, he's overkill.
i Do love the challenge though, thank you for implementing these new bosses!


AQW Epic  Post #: 22
9/14/2013 13:13:44   

Bosses definitely aren't too hard, nor too easy. I'm a 5 focus BH, and I managed just fine to survive even though I can't really heal loop as much unless you count bloodlust as something similar.

Partner had to be able to regain energy though, otherwise we were quite screwed to say the least. I tried beating the bosses with different partners, yet the only times we actually won over the two, I had a partner who was able to regain energy and loop heal. From personal experience, they either stun a lot or they don't. Not sure if any of their stun attacks should be removed when they quite honestly are beatable already, with a bit of luck.
AQW Epic  Post #: 23
9/14/2013 13:21:49   
Tri Phoenix

this 2 bosses are great they are the most challenging thing this game has ever offered not even administrator 11 and armor hazard isnt as poweful as this 2 bosses they have alot of moves many are really special like hybrid which gives them alot of defenses reroute which allowes them to allways have energy and deadly aim for heir gun not to mention every kind of stun attacks.
this bosses are unlike anyother they have alot of attacks (really powerful that they did 38 damage normaly (no crit) with berserker on my tank build ) and really high defenses that are to hard to get through

But ifu ask me that Exile Leader is much more luckier that the admin 10 and harder if u ask me
i defeated the admin 10 in the first battle but exile leader is really lucky it took me 3 turns to win against it.

But without luck these 2 NPC's are equaled and the most powerfull thing this game has ever offered

If anybody wants an advice of defeating those bosses u should use
A tank Build with high resistance and like 32 or higher defense (4 focus) with hazard bot and a Str blood mage
that is how me and Sra.Tatimucai defeated him

< Message edited by Tri Phoenix -- 9/14/2013 13:25:09 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 24
9/14/2013 13:59:04   

can't say they are hard, took me 4-5 tries to defeat both. Combo of BM and BH does wonders.
Post #: 25
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