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RE: ED in its current state

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10/13/2013 20:49:18   
Ranloth
Banned


 They didn't fail to realise that it's inflated the advantage. That was the whole point of the change, for Varium to be a shortcut.
AQ Epic  Post #: 26
10/13/2013 21:06:20   
wireclub1990
Banned

 

 ^ In what way does varium help a 29 kill a 35 now '? The only true worth varium has had since omega started IMHO is to buy azrael for those who like that insanely op advantage other then that I see no reason to varium at all but that's a personal opinion and why I have not spent a dime on omega not even for azrael

< Message edited by wireclub1990 -- 10/13/2013 21:08:10 >
Post #: 27
10/13/2013 21:20:07   
Mother1
Member

@ Wireclub1990

Have you tried looking at this at from the lower level perspective instead of just the cap levels with the edge varium gives power wise? Before in previous phases varium users were mostly at the higher levels where promo's and most of the powerful stuff was abundant. However now it gives lower level players an edge.

Think about it at the lower levels most players don't by varium, and even though it doesn't give power from stats anyone who has brought a promo at the real low levels has a severe advantage over players who don't. How is this? Simple at lower levels most players are still building themselves up where as a player who uses varium doesn't have to worry about that since they already have the funds to power up. They also have access to cores that other players without it won't have access to without hard work.

That is where Varium gives power in the form of a shortcut now.

As for your other answer yes and no. When coming up as a non varium in delta I didn't start running into varium players until the higher levels which surprisingly is where most people are having fun until now. The vast minority or people in delta and before were varium players since they were mostly at in the later levels. The mass majority of players back then were non varium otherwise people would have been bumping into them at the lower levels in 2 vs 2 or 1 vs 1.
Epic  Post #: 28
10/13/2013 21:28:10   
wireclub1990
Banned

 

 I disagree with your point about varium giving a edge at the lower levels unless were talking about promo cores and honestly aside from azrael a lot of the recent ones have been pretty dismal on the power scale not that I am saying this is a bad thing . But back to the original point varium is pretty useless now as rather recently I got a merc up got all gear fully enhanced and skill cored by level 16 using credits and didn't really take much playtime either and didn't hurt my w/l either . so meh I cant agree on varium giving a advantage even at the lower end
Post #: 29
10/13/2013 21:34:12   
Ranloth
Banned


 You'd be surprised. I have a Lvl 19 TM and have been playing on him for past 2 weeks (when I've created him). I've bumped into few Varium players with Exile/Legion Battlegear and just having that + cores does help greatly, whilst normal players who do upgrade items, do missions, Arcade, etc., won't be able to afford a core until around Level 20 due to having to upgrade items much more often than at higher level.

Regardless, shortcut IS an advantage. You get something faster and other players either work for it or don't have it at all. Cores that early on are of great help. Otherwise, you're not supposed to see a major boost in power. An advantage that is time.
Whether it's "useless" or not, it's not something that Devs will care about. The point of Varium is to be a shortcut, not a power advantage like in previous phases. This is a business decision, not something they've thought of last minute - because ED doesn't call all the shots, since AE is above it and also has to approve of the changes.
AQ Epic  Post #: 30
10/13/2013 21:46:24   
wireclub1990
Banned

 

 Honestly I think omega seemed great on paper the idea was sound I wont deny that / However the implementation has been disastrous and speed of reacting and repairing poor judgement /mistakes has been slow some would say just hasn't happened . And its hurt the player base in a way ive never seen before .

I still disagree on the varium point nothing a varium can get now that a non varium user can't is hard to beat or game changing it gives them nothing that a strategy cant counter (not including azrael its game breaking but not available anymore ) And honestly its so easy to achieve the same amount of power playing casually with credits as I said I did it by level 16 in a matter of playing a couple of hours a day for less then a week I got a l16 merc fully geared all cored all fully upgraded with credits and plenty to spare as I level up now . The issues are fundamental with the game level matching allowing builds to linger that are clearly OP making the game very repetitive facing the same build consistently making this problem even worse with very little content being released.

I've mentioned in another thread that I think the reason content releases have slowed down you touched upon in your thread AE calls the shots and I think AE has seen the change with omega and is begging to lose confidence and is focusing its resources else where and I fear if things aren't fixed soon players don't start returning things are going to stay on a downward spiral
Post #: 31
10/14/2013 15:38:33   
nico0las
Member

Varium has become, just like Delta, the defining factor between a win and loss. Had I a dollar for every loss I had due to promo gear, I'd be able to buy more varium than I'd know what to do with. We've become completely dependent on gear to win our battles.

quote:

I've mentioned in another thread that I think the reason content releases have slowed down you touched upon in your thread AE calls the shots and I think AE has seen the change with omega and is begging to lose confidence and is focusing its resources else where and I fear if things aren't fixed soon players don't start returning things are going to stay on a downward spiral


Absolutely agreed. I think AE has noticed we're about to crash and burn here, and really we have to fix things NOW.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 32
10/15/2013 2:38:55   
Drianx
Member

quote:

Honestly I think omega seemed great on paper the idea was sound I wont deny that / However the implementation has been disastrous and speed of reacting and repairing poor judgement /mistakes has been slow some would say just hasn't happened . And its hurt the player base in a way ive never seen before.

Yeah and the fact that people blindly supported all ideas long before actually tasting them has encouraged developers' belief that they were going in the right direction.

Omega was not a great thing because it brought many technicalities but no new incentive to play. Getting wins has always been the only real incentive but that is not enough, because honestly after a while no one cares that you have 28635 or 45947 1v1 wins.

Epicduel was never a good game, but in its early days many people found it fresh and kept supporting it for its great potential. However when they lose faith, they leave. Omega was not much worse than past phases, it's just that many people got sick of it and lost hope all at once.
AQW Epic  Post #: 33
10/15/2013 16:22:34   
wireclub1990
Banned

 

 Sigh I desperately hope they fix stuff soon this game is to frustratingly awful for me right now . back to earth and beyond I guess . Take a few months break from this game again maybe a permanent one cause I cant see things changing and if they don't the player base wont either
Post #: 34
10/15/2013 23:40:40   
Pemberton
Member
 

 It is not pay to win anymore but it is now change class and copy build to win.
Post #: 35
10/25/2013 20:17:15   
ValkyrieKnight
Member

Why couldn't the Chairman event be more epic like it was when he first arrived, this seems too rushed, beaten already? Man I was so hyped when it was announced he was coming back, now I'm sad. He wasn't a challenge at all this time round.
AQW Epic  Post #: 36
10/25/2013 20:22:14   
Dual Thrusters
Member

@Valk

Because he was meant to be farmable this year..
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 37
10/25/2013 20:23:20   
Ranloth
Banned


 Not exactly farmable. He's meant to be beatable for everyone, so anyone can enjoy the new missions and such, as opposed to high level players only.
AQ Epic  Post #: 38
10/25/2013 20:36:03   
ValkyrieKnight
Member

Given that mindset if applied to future events everything is going to be lame for us who invested allot of time into the game.
AQW Epic  Post #: 39
10/26/2013 16:38:11   
nico0las
Member

@Above and that is exactly why we have problems with events nowadays.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 40
10/26/2013 19:01:58   
beaststyles
Member
 

 Omega has baught so much balance in game, only if you open your eyes to it.

The only before omega there was no balance at all.

I believe most would agree that before omega it was all about enhancements. Mostly people with enhancements won. And where did these enhancements come from? Clearly more than 90% of enhancements were baught using varium. Although enhancements were buyable with credits, it was definately a very long process to get decently enhanced equipment. A process that would take months if not years. During which time the player would loose most of their matches against players outstacked with their enhancements (unbalanced). This made the game very unappealing to players who cant afford varium.

However now that the game is less about varium it is much more balanced. And i cant stress enough how MUCH MORE BALANCED OMEGA IS.

I think the difficulty lies in the conditioning of rich kids to wining every game with their varium baught enhancements. Now that the game requires much more thinking to win and as wining is not as easy due to everyone having the same chance, these kids win less often and are frustrated. Sorry for being so blunt. Its NO MORE VARIUM = AUTOWIN.

Hence omega for once baught balance to epicduel. Just need to open our eyes to see it.

Edit: About VARIUM...

I dont think the question should be whether its useful or not. Although iy clearly is a shortcut in every way.

The real question is whether the new varium system has created balance ingame or not? as compared to before omega, like i have discussed above.

Thanks,
Beast.

Posts merge. Please don't double post. ~Mecha

< Message edited by Mecha Mario -- 10/26/2013 20:17:17 >
Post #: 41
10/26/2013 19:47:19   
Mother1
Member

@ Beaststyles

Then explain to me why the numbers are so low and not as high as they are? If epic duel was 100% balanced because of omega than the following would be happening

1 The number online would be much higher
2 There would be a lot more variety with builds which if you look in the game there isn't
3 The balance section of the site would be very inactive since there would be balance but last I seen it there are tons of thread most of which are complaining about matchmaking in the battle modes.

While I can give you that Omega did balance varium and non variums and I can give you a lot of varium players were not happy about this for the following reasons:

1 Varium players got really poor compensation for their hard earn money
2 Just about everything that was once varium exclusive was giving to non variums
3 Almost all old promo cores now have cheap knock offs some of which are better than the originals

That is all I can give you. Other than balancing the power between varium and non varium Omega as a whole was a flop.

The classes aren't balanced in the least. Let's take Blood mage for example.

Right now if Blood mage was balanced we would see many builds being used with this class correct? Well I play the game frequently and whenever I run into Blood mages all I see are strength blood mages, mostly. I may see a focus BM or even tech BM every so often but what I see the most is strength BM. Why is this? Because Blood mage skill tree isn't balanced. Blood mage has a lot of offensive moves that work well with strength.

Bludgeon
Deadly Aim for side arm
Intimadate

But hardly and decent skill for a decent caster build. Their ultimate I never see anyone use. Why? because they already get back health with every attack and the health gain Bloodmage has from supercharge doesn't stack with bloodlust. So as a result no one invests any skill points into supercharge for a measly 5% more health back. Not only that but because they can't gain energy back even if they invested in supercharge they wouldn't be able to use it like that.

I will give another class example Tactical Merc.

Right now they are the best class for tanking in the game. However if you look at the skill tree there aren't enough offensive skills there for them to make a decent offensive build. Their options are very limited. That my friend isn't balanced. Since if omega was balanced that means everything is balanced. The battle modes (which are a train wreak) The classes (which once again are unbalanced) as well as the match making (big train wreak)

The game had all these problems before in previous phases however the masses still came and played anyways because they had good faith that the game would get better as well as there being something they liked still in the game. However Omega took all that away, and gave them little to nothing in return. So in a nutshell I will list the positives of omega and the negatives first the positives.

1 power gap between varium and Non varium was made almost in completely non existant
2 Old suggestions players made from a while ago are finally being put into the game

Now the negatives

1 The battle modes are still unbalanced
2 The match making system which has been a problem since Alpha is now even worse
3 The classes are still unbalanced
4 Omega is extremely expensive to compensate for everything (well mostly everything) being buyable with credits
5 Due to poor varium compensation we lost a lot of varium players many of which were supporters since beta and maybe even Alpha
6 The skill on the skill trees are still unbalanced

Epic  Post #: 42
10/27/2013 3:14:06   
beaststyles
Member
 

 @Mother1

Firstly thanks for merging the post.

In my previous posts, by balance i am mainly refering to the game being much more balanced than it was before omega. I never said it was 100% balanced :p

I understand your point about unbalance, coming against a powerful blood mage and a tanky tactical mercenary. But isnt that balance initself? Since in the examples you gave, althogh blood mages have high strength a tanky tactial mercinary would negate its affect. In the same way, the blood mage would negate the affect of the tankyness of a TM.

You do need classes to be able to speacialise in certain ways, like BM in str and TM in tankyness for the health of the game. It adds varity. Or else we might as well have jusy one class then no one would complain about balance. If tactical mercinaries were able to dish out as much as blood mages as effectively dont you think tanky TM would become a bit less prefered?

Another thing is that classes can be played in varius ways, although some ways will ofcourse be less affective than others. You see similar builds because people like to see big numbers on the screen. For example in my tech mage, i recently switched from a fairly affective tanky caster to a high str malf mage. Although i am losing a bit more, i get quick fights and its kinda fun to see comstant 50s.

With regards to there being less players online, i think its unfair to automaticaly suggest that omega is a flop. You have to remember that wining is not as easy as buying varium any more hence less appealing for those who have been conditioned to wining. I am sure more and more new people will join since omega is much more appealing to non varium users now than it ever was.

Thanks for your reply

Beast.
Post #: 43
10/27/2013 5:10:01   
xyzman
Member

quote:

I understand your point about unbalance, coming against a powerful blood mage and a tanky tactical mercenary. But isnt that balance initself? Since in the examples you gave, althogh blood mages have high strength a tanky tactial mercinary would negate its affect. In the same way, the blood mage would negate the affect of the tankyness of a TM.

Sorry but as a BM myself, I can say that Str Blood Mage wins over any tank Tactical Mercenary. The reasons are:
1. Field Medic takes 4 turn to finish its cool-down, in 4 turns a tanky TLM will have to take quite some damage.
2. Rage meter: a BM can rage really fast against all tank build due to its high dam output while a tank TLM spends most of his/her time playing defensively, just heal and take energy... which brings his/her no rage.
So in short a tanky tlm will lose to a str a bm because str Bm can rage fast while field medic cannot compensate for the dam a TLM must take. How can that be balanced when the rage meter makes offensive builds much more effective than defensive ones???
quote:

You do need classes to be able to speacialise in certain ways, like BM in str and TM in tankyness for the health of the game. It adds varity. Or else we might as well have jusy one class then no one would complain about balance. If tactical mercinaries were able to dish out as much as blood mages as effectively dont you think tanky TM would become a bit less prefered?

1.Tanky TLM is already less preferred for the reasons above.
2. Each class can specailise in some ways. True. But people cannot pay 50K jsut for 1 build right? There needs to be more builds available to try out for each class but it seems the lack of balance between skills make it difficult for this to ever happen.
quote:

Another thing is that classes can be played in varius ways, although some ways will ofcourse be less affective than others. You see similar builds because people like to see big numbers on the screen. For example in my tech mage, i recently switched from a fairly affective tanky caster to a high str malf mage. Although i am losing a bit more, i get quick fights and its kinda fun to see comstant 50s.

Well you say a class can be played in various ways. But how many ways can you play with your Tech Mage? Two? It is no variety at all. I agree with you that people want to see big numbers and that influenced their choice of build. However, the problem now is that people cannot choose builds at their own will cause there are not many viable builds for them apart from some common pointless builds which run amok.
And obviously this reflects the lack of balance between skills. Why cannot you use dex tech mage as in the past? Plasma rain is useless in 2v2. Players can choose other stronger skills which cost much less while more effective like plasma bolt. In 1v1 Plasma Bolt is much better than Overload, a Caster TM can deal much higher dam with low level Plasma Bolt while a Dex- abuse TM need to use high level Overload to deal roughly the same dam. Or for example Poison in CH and BH and TLM skill trees. If the game is balance they should be used more frequently.
quote:

With regards to there being less players online, i think its unfair to automaticaly suggest that omega is a flop. You have to remember that wining is not as easy as buying varium any more hence less appealing for those who have been conditioned to wining. I am sure more and more new people will join since omega is much more appealing to non varium users now than it ever was.

I have played since Gamma as a Non-var but sadly Omega has the least appeal to me compared to other phases. The credit price is so high, and although now all items can be bought with either var or cred, items have no tactical purposes, they are just for look. In Delta buying an items with proper stats for one's build take some thoughts and research, hence it would be more difficult to copy someone's build. Moreover enhancements are truly the reward for hard work, not a just-for-look items, In Delta any Non-var could have the chance to get some good gears like Charfade's and by enhancing them they can be nearly as good as Var players.
Btw I still think some P2W items still exist in Omega. Have you seen Str-sup TM with azrael's gears, they just need to malf- azrael- finish thanks to the cores and their freakingly high sup and str.
AQW Epic  Post #: 44
10/27/2013 6:04:55   
beaststyles
Member
 

 @ xyzman,

I do agree with most of the point you have made. There is defo a big room for improvement in terms of balancing.

But you have to say that omega has taken steps in the right way in terms of balancing. Although enhancements could be obtained through hard work in the past. Thats alot of hard work. Not forgetting that during that hard work you will be constantly facing varium enhancers and loosing most of ur fights. This made the game very unappealing for non varium users and omega saved us from the unbalance that was hence created by varium.

Post #: 45
10/27/2013 6:43:44   
xyzman
Member

^ You are right. In Omega ED has many potentials of being more balanced. But as far as its current state is concerned, balance in Omega is worse than Delta, and I fear that while balance discourages a lot of players from playing the game, will forthcoming balance changes draw them back or are they too late?
AQW Epic  Post #: 46
10/27/2013 7:00:28   
Ranloth
Banned
quote:

But as far as its current state is concerned, balance in Omega is worse than Delta

I actually share the opposite view on it. And now we're stuck at the point where we don't agree with each other. Why? Because balance is a subjective topic for everyone. I can see some flaws, but it's not that bad. It's maybe on par with late Delta balance, when there was actual playable balance, as opposed to early 'till late Delta, which was... similar to beginning of Omega.

And only P2W aspect currently, will be Azrael's Will. This is different by far from Delta's P2W. Why? Everyone could get Varium, you've had advantage of... a lot of levels - especially with enhancements - and the other players (read: F2P) were pretty much punching bags. This time, it's an item causing problems but they are still beatable - somewhere easier for a standard player (no promos) than being F2P in Delta, but still difficult. But lack of cores is to blame, since they may indirectly nerf it or there may be counters to it (not direct, but one that could weaken the effect or whatever).
AQ Epic  Post #: 47
10/27/2013 7:30:53   
wireclub1990
Banned

 
quote:

I actually share the opposite view on it


You don't have much support on that .

Simple reason omega was meant to level the playing field on gear and varium vs none varium . Did they succeed not really azrael and certain cores saw to that a partial success at best.

HOWEVER the worst bit

When they made these balance changes they did not realise the massive door they were swinging open lowing hp and not fixing the modes level problem making strength absolutely dominate very few builds are actually viable making diversity extinct. On top of that levels importance became more important then ever and imbalance is even worse between levels and completely unacceptable to be facing some1 4 or more levels higher. And its happening all the time .


Post edited to remove unnecessary content ~M4B

< Message edited by Melissa4Bella -- 10/27/2013 9:08:35 >
Post #: 48
10/27/2013 7:37:42   
Ranloth
Banned


 Opinions don't need someone else's support to be valid. Feel free to disagree but that's your view, not mine.
AQ Epic  Post #: 49
10/27/2013 13:04:07   
nico0las
Member

quote:

But as far as its current state is concerned, balance in Omega is worse than Delta

How can someone actually say this? It was balanced for the max level varium abusers, but for everyone else it was hell.
Delta had everything excluding balance. Omega is a massive improvement.

quote:

azrael and certain cores saw to that a partial success at best

If I pay 50 dollars for a picture on a screen, I should damn right hope I'll get my money's worth out of it. If you bought the Azrael gear, you payed to have a SIGNIFICANT advantage over everyone else. This is a business, after all.

Wire, you're sitting here complaining and getting absolutely nothing done. Yes, Omega is unbalanced. Epicduel has always lacked balance, but the thing is it's not possible to balance it. If you go into any game, you'll see there's always one class, one build
or one set of gear that's always outrageously powerful, even in big name games like League of Legends or WoW. For example, on LoL, the tanks are always dominant despite constant balance changes. That's just the way it is.

We're never going to achieve balance. As long as players are creating new builds, balance will not exist. Every class right now has at least one powerful build:

Blood Mage: Strength Build
TLM: Tank
Bounty Hunter: 5 focus, strength (the classic)
Tech Mage: Caster, Strength/support
Mercenary: Tank/Bunker Buster/Static smash
Cyber Hunter: Support/tank

Sure, Blood mage is very dominant right now, but I'm not having much difficulty beating them. You just have to be equally aggressive, which a lot of builds are not. Eventually, we're going to have a new build that will take over, and the cycle will go on until the day this game is closed down.

quote:

Simple reason omega was meant to level the playing field on gear and varium vs none varium

Most of my friends online now are Non-variums (since all my beta friends quit), and they seem very happy with Omega. Maybe you just don't remember Delta clearly?

quote:

and the other players (read: F2P) were pretty much punching bags. This time, it's an item causing problems but they are still beatable

This is a great statement. Delta was unplayable because Varium players would become hulking, unstoppable brutes and wipe the floor with anyone remotely worse than them. In Delta, you pay or you die. Now, Azrael's will is causing problems, but it's just gear that can be beaten without too much difficulty.


< Message edited by nico0las -- 10/27/2013 13:05:23 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 50
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