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RE: =DF= enTropy Armor Discussion Thread

 
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4/26/2017 15:31:26   
Sflamin
Member

Is it true that EnT does more damage now? I didn't recall the staffs ever announcing EnT revamp :/
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 51
4/26/2017 18:39:58   
Thronos
Member

Well they didn't plan it apparently mod ash did something without the rest of them knowing it i think but the mana cost increased as a cost they scale now damage doesn't i would edit the page but i cant for some reason

< Message edited by Thronos -- 4/26/2017 20:42:43 >
Post #: 52
4/26/2017 21:16:04   
Solanaceae
Legendary Nightshade


enTropy post-revamp does a lot more damage now. But those mana costs...

Anyhoo, I decided to do some testing too. With a 92-92 static weapon, 55 STR/INT/DEX, and 236 LUK (base damage of 108):

Infect: 1 hit of 224, 3-turn DoT of 34-34 and -20 Darkness resist
Plague: 2 hits of 112, 3-turn DoT of 61-61 with 2430 HP and 56-56 with CURRENT HP of 2223 (seems to do 2.5% of your HP when you use the skill per turn)
Vampiric Renewal: Immediately heal 152, 7-turn HoT of 152 (max health of 2430)
Rupture: 1 hit of 90, 6-turn -75 P/D/B
Foul Slash: 2 hits of 112, presumably +50 Bonus per hit
Rot: 4 hits of 56, 3-turn -80 Boost
Decay: 1 hit of 168, 3-turn DoT of 34-34
Attack: 1 hit of 224
Blood Womb: No damage, 2-turn +70 P/D/B, 3-turn +70 Boost (including the turn you use the skill)
Rotting Touch: 9 hits of 50
Poison Rain: 1 hit of 269
Volatile Veins: 1 hit of 56, 3-turn DoT of 102 (seems to vary based on STR/INT/DEX, but has weird rounding at the "edge cases". Approximately 1 damage per 5 points)
Decaying Needles: 8 crits of 75
Fever Spit: 4 hits of 56, 10-turn -40 Darkness resist
Putrefying Being: 9 hits of 38, 3-turn stun

enTropy seems to have a damage multiplier of 207%. Like Thronos said, it doesn't scale, as I had the same multiplier at levels 80 and 85. In terms of weapon percentages:

Infect: 1 hit of 207%, 3-turn DoT of 33% weapon damage + ~10% STR/INT/DEX?
Plague: 2 hits of 103.5%, 3-turn DoT of 2.5% of current HP
Vampiric Heal: Immediately heal 6.25% max HP, 7-turn HoT of 6.25% max HP
Rupture: 1 hit of 83%, 6-turn -75 P/D/B
Foul Slash: 2 hits of 103.5%, presumably +50 Bonus per hit
Rot: 4 hits of 51.75%, 3-turn -80 Boost
Decay: 1 hit of 156%, 3-turn DoT of 33% weapon damage + ~10% STR/INT/DEX?
Attack: 1 hit of 207%
Blood Womb: No damage, 2-turn +70 P/D/B, 3-turn +70 Boost (including the turn you use the skill)
Rotting Touch: 9 hits of 46.3%
Poison Rain: 1 hit of 249%
Volatile Veins: 1 hit of 51.9%, 3-turn DoT of 33% weapon damage + ~20% STR/INT/DEX?
Decaying Needles: 8 crits of 69.4%
Fever Spit: 4 hits of 51.9%, 10-turn -40 Darkness resist
Putrefying Being: 9 hits of 35.2%, 3-turn stun

Yeesh, what a mess, right? But if we divide by the 207% multiplier, everything looks a lot cleaner:

Infect: 1 hit of 100%, 3-turn DoT of 33% weapon damage + ~10% STR/INT/DEX?
Plague: 2 hits of 50%, 3-turn DoT of 2.5% of current HP
Vampiric Heal: Immediately heal 6.25% max HP, 7-turn HoT of 6.25% max HP
Rupture: 1 hit of 40%, 6-turn -75 P/D/B
Foul Slash: 2 hits of 50%, presumably +50 Bonus per hit
Rot: 4 hits of 25%, 3-turn -80 Boost
Decay: 1 hit of 75%, 3-turn DoT of 33% weapon damage + ~10% STR/INT/DEX?
Attack: 1 hit of 100%
Blood Womb: No damage, 2-turn +70 P/D/B, 3-turn +70 Boost (including the turn you use the skill)
Rotting Touch: 9 hits of 22.5%
Poison Rain: 1 hit of 120%
Volatile Veins: 1 hit of 25%, 3-turn DoT of 100% weapon damage + ~20% STR/INT/DEX?
Decaying Needles: 8 crits of 33.5%
Fever Spit: 4 hits of 25%, 10-turn -40 Darkness resist
Putrefying Being: 9 hits of 17%, 3-turn stun

Although enTropy has pretty good damage if you go Fever Spit -> Infect -> Blood Womb -> Putrefying Being, it's still below Ascendant in terms of offense, defense (Blind is usually better than the heal, and Asc has a better shield), and above all, mana efficiency. The scaling mana costs actually make it worse as you level up, considering its damage stays the same. The small boosts the DoTs get from your stats isn't enough to justify the huge mana costs, in my opinion. I'd advise anyone looking for a strong offensive class to just stick with Ascended Chickencow or swap to Ascendant and save themselves 1000 DCs.

Edit: Fixed Volatile Veins DoT; it's actually 100% WDPT, not 33%.

< Message edited by Solanaceae -- 4/30/2017 20:24:55 >
DF AQW  Post #: 53
4/26/2017 21:26:29   
Thronos
Member

wait what 207% damage multiplier?

< Message edited by Thronos -- 4/26/2017 21:31:51 >
Post #: 54
4/26/2017 21:36:26   
Solanaceae
Legendary Nightshade


According to Verly, enTropy is supposed to have damage scaling that increases with your level, like with Kathool Adept and either DoomKnight. However, the scaling seems to be locked at 207% for the moment, just like how mana costs were locked at level 80 levels before they got fixed.
DF AQW  Post #: 55
4/26/2017 21:40:09   
Thronos
Member

o i see so why doesnt she do that then? unless shes too busy. o nm im talking about verly

< Message edited by Thronos -- 4/27/2017 0:41:27 >
Post #: 56
4/26/2017 23:40:19   
Dark Lord Urmi
Member

^ she? who are you talking about??
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 57
4/30/2017 5:38:29   
Sflamin
Member

Just tested it out... literally the worst revamp/nerf out of any classes I've seen to date. The damage buffs doesn't justify for the huge mana costs, and the scalings on some skills are even higher than Dmk itself which make no sense in the first place.
I find it funny considering Ash said it himself that he would never touch any of the DC classes. So what changed?

DF MQ AQW  Post #: 58
4/30/2017 14:54:57   
Pisaster
Member

I really do not see what people don't like about this. Before I found entropy incredibly underwhelming and essentially useless, now, at level 60, I can deal 2500 damage to a single enemy in 3 turns, more than enough for the average normal boss, or 500 uncrit to each enemy + 1500 to one, also in three turns. Plus, it has a second multi with a powerful weapon damage dot, 3 very powerful nukes, 1 with 4 (!!!) cooldown, one with 9, and one with 8, all of which have enough hits for frequent weapon special procs, and one of which doubles as a virtually unavoidable stun. PLUS, a 70% damage boost with 2/3 uptime, high base damage, and no element locked skills. With a little wis investment this is easily one of the best all round classes in the game, by far the best (other than dmk) for multi enemies, and better burst and sustained damage than any non dmk class other than perhaps riftwalker and ascendant, but since players can only have one of those, it has a niche for everyone. And its defenses aren't actually that bad since its stun has a lot of hits and 8 cooldown, and it can regularly activate blade of awe.
Post #: 59
4/30/2017 20:56:29   
Solanaceae
Legendary Nightshade


Hmm, I decided to look at enTropy again after reading your post, Pisaster, and I think I was biased against offensive classes. As far as I can tell, the strongest burst achieved by enTropy with a Darkness weapon is (4 * 51.9) + (1 * 207 * 1.4) + (0) + (9 * 46.3 * 1.6 * 1.7) + (8 * 69.4 * 1.6 * 1.7) + (9 * 35.2 * 1.4), or 3584.5% over 6 turns. After this, you're forced to fall back on significantly weaker skills (with the exception of Stan-boosted Volatile Veins). It's a lot higher than I expected it to be, but I still have a huge issue with the mana costs. Ascendant's strongest burst is (2 * 55) + (1 * 105 * 1.25) + (2 * 75 * 1.55) + (4 * (32.5 + 15) * 1.85) + (5 * (25 + 25 + 90) * 1.85 * 1.25) + (275 * 2 * 1.85), or 3461.5% over 6 turns (not the best rotation since final burns up your passive, nor the strongest Ascendant can get since it's building up its passive throughout the fight), but that uses only 155 mana as opposed to enTropy eating up 331.

My issue with enTropy is that even though it's a fully offensive class, it still can't match a class that also sports a good shield, blind, and mana regen. I guess the Atealan classes are all just super crazy powerful. Like you said, it certainly has top-tier damage, surpassing KAA and EPL. Also, Blood Womb has a 2/4 uptime, since the turn you use it is effectively wasted.

< Message edited by Solanaceae -- 4/30/2017 20:57:14 >
DF AQW  Post #: 60
5/1/2017 16:16:39   
Pisaster
Member

Yeah, it's definitely not a class I would use for hard mode, but it has enough damage for defenses to not matter vs. even the strongest normal mode bosses
Post #: 61
5/1/2017 17:19:50   
Baron Dante
Member

You know, now that you pointed it out, it only has better burst offense than Ascendant WITH a darkness weapon.
The least useful element overall. (Granted it can fix this to a degree, but still) Ascendant does better with pretty much anything else.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 62
11/26/2017 17:08:09   
merlijneke
Member

After a 'couple' of months, what are peoples impressions on what the changes to entropy left it?

I personally feel it has too high of a mana cost, even at the cost of a damage nerf I would rather have reasonable mana costs. Right now Entropy feels the most mana hungry class in the game, Where any of the impactful abilities like Spit, Being, Regen, Rot, both multis, Infect all have very high mana costs that just drain your mana pool dry. Even with over 150 combined WIS I go out of mana very quickly.

As entropy isn't a glass cannon class and actually wants to combo some of it's abilities, it just feels bad to burn through your mana pool so many more times than your healthpool. Comparing it to Kathool Adept, Entropy has higher mana costs across the board (except for shadow/kathool) and doesn't even have a way to sustain its mana. On top adept hits harder when just using single abilities, this whilst Adept has always been notorious for it's massive mana costs.
DF  Post #: 63
11/26/2017 18:58:14   
ArchNero
Member

I feel like Entropy would've been the biggest beneficiary of pre nerfed WIS. Since WIS, IIRC gave more mana per point back then. But even then it would turn WIS back into being a "Dump stat"

Damage is great and all, it's the mana situation that can get a little messy at times, esp if you get unlucky with like blade of awe special triggers and baby dragon not giving you mana back.

Entropy I doubt would be your choice of class to run through something like neverglades, and if mana costs weren't gonna be changed, I think at least there should be like a mana version of "seaweed" instead of restoring all HP, it should be MP instead, or maybe have trinkets in game that restore mana and hopefully in the near future increase the mana potion alchemy cap.

Entropy is definitely a very mana hungry class, if it was an NPC, and there was an "All you can eat mana buffet" on a massive dinner table, entropy is gonna fight every class NPC for as much mana as possible
Post #: 64
11/27/2017 19:30:11   
merlijneke
Member

So I made an Entropy mana costs comparison sheet. I actually came across a few things that needed to be updated for the encyclopedia. The mana costs for Entropy went up by almost 200% for almost thrice the mana costs it had before. Casting every ability once costed me a staggering 834 mana.
DF  Post #: 65
11/28/2017 0:19:45   
dragon_master
Member

@ArchNero

You don't run non-Darkness weapons on enTropy.
DF  Post #: 66
11/28/2017 8:13:21   
ArchNero
Member

^

I was only saying blade of awe for at times, you're starving for mana with entropy, of course you do more damage with a darkness weapon, unless in certain cases such as high dark/All resistance enemies.

Not the first time I used a class where it has a favourable element like Ascendant that favours fire.
Post #: 67
11/28/2017 11:36:09   
Chewy905
Member

^warlic’s staff actually restores more mana, instead of health
Post #: 68
11/28/2017 17:53:04   
ArchNero
Member

^

Fair point but not everyone has it, due to going rare. Whereas blade of awe is accessible.
Post #: 69
11/28/2017 19:54:33   
Steel_King
Member

I feel as though Entropy is struggling with its identity a little bit. It used to be a tank but now it struggles to sustain mana, and once you run out of mana, health quickly follows. The mana costs are in line with the highly offensive Kathool Adept, but it lacks the firepower of what I consider a true offensive armour. Hybrid is what it is closest to right now, but even then the skillset doesn't match the mana. What I mean is, the tank skillset is lower damage taken in exchange for lower damage dealt. This means that you take more turns, but generally less damage (with the exception of OTKs). More turns is fine if you have a mana pool that can take it, but if you are draining it too much each battle, it won't work.

Example (numbers not accurate, purely representation):

KAA - OTK or 2TK - ~100 mana - ~50 mana/turn
ENT - 3TK or 4TK - ~ 160 mana - ~40 mana/turn

See the problem?
Post #: 70
11/30/2017 8:40:08   
merlijneke
Member

Completely agreed. On top of that, entropy actually burns through mana a lot quicker than KAA, Entropy's average mana cost is actually 60, 70 if you exclude the virtually never used Decay/Rupture/Foul Slash. Meanwhile KAA only has it's stun, heal and Shadow that are higher in mana cost than that average.

Entropy does have pretty high damage numbers, but they require a lot of setup that drain your mana into oblivion.
DF  Post #: 71
3/13/2019 14:11:51   
deathshine
Member

I honestly think that Entropy does a good job of competing with Kathool Adept now. Kathool Adept's issue is that you're only gonna be relying on 2 moves for strong burst. Kathool and Red Tide both being locked to elements and one of them costing a huge amount of mana. Once those two moves are on cooldown (they both have a cooldown of 10 turns) your options for damage is severely lacking. All of Entropy's burst options have a lower cooldown, one of which only being on a cooldown of 4 is extremely good while also being one of the cheaper mana costs. This allows Entropy an easier time of rotating it's abilites than Kathool Adept.

Entropy's Healing is much better than Kathool's. Both have an extremely high mana cost however Entropy's heals for 2% less health per turn but goes on for 5 turns and has a 9 turn cooldown versus Kathool's 4 turn heal and 15 turn cooldown. Meaning not only does Entropy heal more than Kathool but it also is far more consistent with only having a 4 turn period of when you cannot heal.

(not gonna mention that Kathool Adept's main DoT ability is still really bugged and needs to be fixed)
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 72
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