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Something needs to be done about stat abusing

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11/10/2013 1:55:30   
Lord Of K1lling
Banned


 So basically once yo get to level 17-30 is about the easiest time to stat abuse.

By that i mean putting majority of your points into one stat and then proceeding to use skills that improve with that stat. Examples are Over Load and Plasma Rain, Stun Grenade and Multishot are also examples, So is Aux and Artillery strike.

Doing these means that you can have a high chance to 2 hit your opponents at these levels.

There needs to be more downsides to stat abusing one thing. Sure there are counters such as an EMP, static smash, but some of those classes can easily get energy back now, the prime example is tech mages with battery recharge.

I'll give a few suggestions on how to fix it.

Lets say you stack Dex, the more dex you have, your resistance will start decreasing, after 60 it could decrease by 1 every 5 points, balancing your tech and dex would make this not happen, even if you did put dex over 60, as long as your tech was close it would not decrease resistance

Same thing for tech, more tech, equals lowered defense.

Support is a different story, i have no ideas on a punishment for stacking that, give some ideas below for that

_____________________________

I may not win, but i'll try like crazy to win.

Officer of Unholy Elites
Epic  Post #: 1
11/10/2013 2:06:00   
Midnightsoul
Member

No. It's good enough. The problem is not stat abusing, it's the new skills. We don't need Agility 2.0 or another Omega to limit our builds more. Like seriously, we need some creativity.

< Message edited by Midnightsoul -- 11/10/2013 2:07:08 >
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 2
11/10/2013 2:07:49   
Mother1
Member

Ok if they do what you suggest guess what? You will be forcing people to use builds they don't want to use and the end result of this will be those same people will complain about what they are being forced to use and call for that build's nerf.

This already happened with strength builds, support builds, and focus builds as a result. If people want to abuse stats that is their choice. You can't just force someone to play the way you think they should play by adding penalties. Especially if that build that is abusing a stat isn't overpowered and can be countered.
Epic  Post #: 3
11/10/2013 2:09:09   
TheRandomGuyYouSee
Member

What's the counter to a tech mage with crazy dexterity? EMP? Nope, they have battery recharge now! 2 hit good game.
Post #: 4
11/10/2013 2:11:05   
Lord Of K1lling
Banned


 this is simply not limiting builds, this means that stacking will mean that your other version of defence is worse

You can still stack dex, but energy attacks will tear you up, leaving a weakness

Sig removed. Please use it once per page. ~Mecha

< Message edited by Mecha Mario -- 11/10/2013 10:11:21 >
Epic  Post #: 5
11/10/2013 2:13:04   
Mother1
Member

@ Lord of killing

Basically agility 2.0 as midnightsoul said. Agility was a bad band aid to a gaping wound and even the staff themselves admitted this. We do not need something like this once again putting vices on people's fun.
Epic  Post #: 6
11/10/2013 2:16:02   
Lord Of K1lling
Banned


 @mother1 i was never here when agility was in, so sorry for my lack of knowledge of this, but how would you propose a fix to this obvious advantage? It limits builds to the same thing over and over again, 99% of tech mages i see spam dex overload plasma rain, battery, i might as well type gg at the start, i know i'm gonna lose
Epic  Post #: 7
11/10/2013 2:33:44   
Mother1
Member

If cause you haven't notice when the staff made omega it was made with the purpose of stat freedom. Meaning that you can create any kind of build you want. Also with every stat abuse build their is an obvious disadvantage.

Your dex caster's have weak resistance. Exploit that big time. Plus with their high defenses you will gain huge amounts of rage due to their high defenses. Exploit that as well.

Just because they have a counter to energy drains now, doesn't mean that they can't be beaten by other means.

@Edit

I see you are at the lower levels where these quick kill builds are more powerful. Since you are a hunter use a high tech smoke build for them. Your high resist will protect you from their energy attacks, and your smoke will take those attacks down quite a couple of pegs.

< Message edited by Mother1 -- 11/10/2013 2:36:00 >
Epic  Post #: 8
11/10/2013 9:02:48   
Lord Of K1lling
Banned


 @Mother1,

After trying out a number of builds i have grown to like maxed smoke, maxed mark of blood and level 3 shield, this combo allows me to defeat even the toughest of mages, and if they spam dex, my energy aux and pistol will counter it, the shield gives me 15 extra resistance


Sig removed. Please use it once per page. ~Mecha

< Message edited by Mecha Mario -- 11/10/2013 10:11:29 >
Epic  Post #: 9
11/10/2013 9:18:13   
Seteriel
Member

@ Mother1
While i agree that "agility 2.o" is not the way to go, something needs to be done about stat abusing. I have no idea what, though.
AQW Epic  Post #: 10
11/10/2013 9:53:36   
Mother1
Member

@ Seteriel

Remember what happened last time when they did something like that? Well if you don't I will tell you. First it was strength abuse at the beginning of omega. People complained about it and it got nerfed. Then came support abuse during the golden yeti tourney. People complained and then that got nerfed. The because everything else got nerfed people were forced into using focus builds since everything else was nerfed. As a result of this people complained focus was overpowered since everyone was using it, then focus got nerfed.

See the pattern? if not then I will explain. Forcing people to play the way you think they should play only causes what you think is balanced to get nerfed as well. People have the way they want to play and forcing them to do otherwise because you feel it is not balanced only hurts the game in the end.

If they choose to use stat abuse builds that is their choice. Every build has a weakness. If they choose to use strength abuse they have now defenses which can be exploited. If they use tank build they will be leaving themselves open to get raged on quickly due to high defenses.

You choose high support you leave yourself open to heavy attacks and you will do weak damage after your support moves go on cooldown.

All in all for every build there is a weakness. You just got to know how to exploit it that is all.
Epic  Post #: 11
11/10/2013 11:11:12   
Seteriel
Member

Thank you for the detailed answer.

The point however is: nerf.
I did not say "nerf it". I just stated "something needs to be done".
This is very vaguely, of course.

However, going through your explanation: the route would not be to nerf stat abuse, when nerfing leads to an endless downward spiral. But instead buff focus.
For example: encourage focus/balanced builds by adding X to it. My problem is, i am not sure what X could be. +1 damage per focus ? +1damage per focus above 2 or 3 focus ? Or def+res instead of damage ? Or additional health ? Block/deflect/crit chance ? A combination (+1 damage for focus 1 and 5, +1 def for focus 2, +1 res for focus 3, +10 HP for focus 4) ?
There is just anything one could think of.

Taking your example of forcing players to "my" opinion - and this not being the solution:
I ran a 5 focus build before the update, but now i am "forced" to play str build if i want to get "enough" wins or at least avoid "too many losses". This also can not be the solution :/

< Message edited by Seteriel -- 11/10/2013 11:14:12 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 12
11/11/2013 1:11:07   
Midnightsoul
Member

I've still wanted to see what would happen if strength and support scaled by 4 and tech and dex by 3. Might be extreme, but otherwise, I think focus needs to be promoted A LITTLE bit. Like maybe +3 damage to all robots. I just do not want an era of bot abusers again.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 13
11/11/2013 2:45:36   
Pemberton
Member
 

 You are free to put your stats wherever, this is good for diversity. Stat abusing? What does that even mean?
The only abusing I see is class jumping and build copying to exploit imbalance in the game mechanics.
Believe me, put a limit on class changing and make skill trees invisible and you would have a better game.
Post #: 14
11/11/2013 4:25:46   
ValkyrieKnight
Member

@ Mighty Soul

First off, that would make strength too strong; secondly, please no, I'm already sick of people using Infernal Android 95% of the time to finish me off.

The main reason why stat abuse is possible and I've been saying this for so long now, is because many crucial skills are linked to technology which we all know uber high tech = uber high defense and skill effectiveness which I have always found broken. You cannot use a pure support build, you cannot use a full strength build, no full energy, no full health, and for many classes full dex. What you can do however is do full technology so easily, this is flawed. Technology, is too strong. A fix I would suggest is take many of the technology reliant skills and give them support requirements/improvements.



< Message edited by ValkyrieKnight -- 11/11/2013 4:26:35 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 15
11/11/2013 4:26:15   
martinsen5
Member

"Stat abusing" is just a term for putting most of your stat points into one or two stats, like strength and support. A "balanced" stat build in your eyes, would be called a 5 Focus build. Investing equally in all stats doesn't make your build better than others. Like people above me have mentioned, there is no need to punish people for choosing one type of build to another... rather nerf the skills you believe are too strong and easily abusable.
AQW Epic  Post #: 16
11/11/2013 10:03:31   
Midnightsoul
Member

@ValkyrieKnight

*Midnightsoul
And...I wasn't serious about the ideas. Besides, IA isn't that bad anymore. If you're against the idea, it's okay, but I don't want to nerf stat abusers, but instead buff something else.

@on topic
How about +1 bonus health OR energy per focus level? I'm just trying to pull out random ideas, please don't bombard me with an angry message or your life story in ED.... :(
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 17
11/17/2013 16:51:11   
kamkeyz23
Member
 

 i disagree, simply because any move that improves def/resist is the perfect counter what needs tp be added is a skill that reduced support preferable a active weapon/gun/aux core
Post #: 18
11/17/2013 16:54:44   
Altador987
Member

they did but you had to buy it with varium and it is rare now
AQW Epic  Post #: 19
11/17/2013 17:02:07   
AQWorldsFarmer
Member

Here is MY imput on Stat abuse


First off, people wanna complain about too much focus, then complain about to much abuse, THEN want to complain about No diversity.

Wanna know why there is no Diversity? Because everyone is complaining about stat abuse then it gets nerfed, leaving focus to be the only option.

Then everyone complains about Focus, it gets nerfed, and everyone converts to focus. Its an endless cycle.

Stat abuse is just using a basic stat to upgrade in certain skills. Stat abuse as a whole isn't the problem. Its the combination of skilled that can be used while abusing a stat.

My opinion is that with unblockable and undeflectable skills, each one in a class upgrades with a different stats, a max of 3 unblockable undefectable attacks (like plasma bolt, plasma rain, artillary strike, ect.)

that way to abuse, you only get one of the overpowered attacks out of it.
Post #: 20
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