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RE: =ED= Upcoming Balance Changes (Patch 1.5.39)

 
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11/14/2013 7:38:12   
Jekyll
Member

Problem is the poison bot works decently well with focus and non-focus builds. As long as you have high tech, you're good to go with the poison effect.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 26
11/14/2013 7:45:06   
Ranloth
Banned


^ Hence why lowering the % could be a good idea, as well as adding ceiling into the formula for the Poison.

Although, at the same time, higher HP will mean the Poison will be less effective overall. Longer battles means it can be used more though. I'm not sure where I stand on it. Perhaps just putting it to 50% would be good enough.

< Message edited by Trans -- 11/14/2013 7:48:04 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 27
11/14/2013 8:15:34   
FrostWolv
Member

I really want DEVs to emphasize their effort on giving Cyber hunters more Diversity in gameplay:-



Static Charge its output is low .... yes it also generate 100% strike damage but is blockable

My real concern is that it strictly values itself with Strength build and depends on opponents defense as well.


Plasma grenade is the only stun nuke that cost 33 energy at max while overload costs 30 energyand stun grenade costs 31 energy

Why Plasma Grenade damage is far less than Overload even if Plasma Grenade is 4th Tier Skill ?


Why Cyber Hunters is the only class with least synergy of its inferior Nuke?

_____________________________

Epic  Post #: 28
11/14/2013 9:31:46   
beaststyles
Member
 

@Rableforth

Nice!

More health + less base damage means longer battles and more strategy, bringing use of more skills into the game specially with increased EP.

Of course this will not be perfect, but definatelt seems a step to the right direction.

Looking forward to the update. :D

Beast.
Post #: 29
11/14/2013 10:02:14   
Mother1
Member

While this does help balance I see a few downsides to this as well.

one of which is with longer battles comes longer wait times. Plus with such a small group of people some might not get battles due to this.
Also since offense is taking a nerf and defense is getting a buff, I hope this doesn't overpower defensive builds. Especially poison builds that would get an indirect buff from this change.

Lower level juggernauts will get a massive buff from this as well, and the opponents who are facing them will get nerfed which I can also see causing issues. Especially since crits will be doing less, there will be less damage, and defenses will get buffed which all favor the juggernaut.

< Message edited by Mother1 -- 11/14/2013 10:23:07 >
Epic  Post #: 30
11/14/2013 11:22:52   
Oswald Cobblepot
Member

if battles will be more durable you have to increase the amount of credits earned in each battle.

< Message edited by Oswald Cobblepot -- 11/15/2013 12:14:35 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 31
11/14/2013 11:47:04   
kaierti1
Banned


1. As partially covered in the previous section, we're also lowering the Energy gain from Battery Backup.

i like this because tech mages are op. they are so strong. almost unbeatable. plasma + supercharge + assimilitation + energy backup <<< these are 4 best skills. assimilitation and energy backup are almost same. 1st variant u stealing energy and 2nd variant u getting free energy. need to decrease one of them. and energy backup dont required 42 support max lvl, it snot normal. plus if tank tech mage have poison bot u cant defeat them. u have chance to win 20-30% only.

2. i have idea. poison bot must be used only once. im saying poison damage (5-8). this will be good.

3. tactical merc is good too. energy backup gain lowering energy it will be good too for decrease them. because high heal lvl + good def & res its unfinishable game for them.

4. look. blood mages did not have almost nothing. 2 best skill is destroyed. bloodlust and deadly aim. now it is without good strength, without good shield, and without getting health when attacking. its so poor. energy parasite only 15% stealing its at least. must be 25%.

5. im interesting. reflex boost need bounty's too and blood mages too. blood mages for protect against bounty hunters. and it dont need to change. it is good skill and need!!! dont change please (on blood mages). on bountys maybe. replace getting energy.
Post #: 32
11/14/2013 12:03:36   
Mother1
Member

quote:

i like this because tech mages are op. they are so strong. almost unbeatable. plasma + supercharge + assimilitation + energy backup <<< these are 4 best skills. assimilitation and energy backup are almost same. 1st variant u stealing energy and 2nd variant u getting free energy. need to decrease one of them. and energy backup dont required 42 support max lvl, it snot normal. plus if tank tech mage have poison bot u cant defeat them. u have chance to win 20-30% only.


TM as a whole was not overpowered with this. The fact that reroute left for battery back up nerfed non caster mages while buffing casters. That buff came because with reroute gone casters had not only a way to get back huge energy all at once, but old control the opponent had over their energy was lost. Non casters also took a nerf when deadly aim was taken out. Casters TM had no need for deadly aim so this in turn didn't hurt them.

quote:

2. i have idea. poison bot must be used only once. im saying poison damage (5-8). this will be good.


With the poison still curable by field medic? Nope I don't support that. Even if it is a one shot free poison the fact that field medic can cure it out and it can't be used again will make this bot worthless in 2 vs 2 especially if one person get's poisoned only for the partner to cure it out without the DOT working. Wouldn't be in the least balanced.

Epic  Post #: 33
11/14/2013 12:15:30   
kaierti1
Banned


Mother1

quote:

TM as a whole was not overpowered with this. The fact that reroute left for battery back up nerfed non caster mages while buffing casters. That buff came because with reroute gone casters had not only a way to get back huge energy all at once, but old control the opponent had over their energy was lost. Non casters also took a nerf when deadly aim was taken out. Casters TM had no need for deadly aim so this in turn didn't hurt them.


1. i said on tank tech mages. tank tech mages dont need deadly aim. and thats why they feeling nothing bad cause of destroy deadly aim. but blood mages are decreased and lowered. and best 1 v 1 class is now tank tech mage then tactical mercenary. and need decrease battery back up.

quote:

With the poison still curable by field medic? Nope I don't support that. Even if it is a one shot free poison the fact that field medic can cure it out and it can't be used again will make this bot worthless in 2 vs 2 especially if one person get's poisoned only for the partner to cure it out without the DOT working. Wouldn't be in the least balanced.


2. about poison bot. u saying this because u have poison bot. but many players dont have. and its difficult to game against tech mages with poison bot. u cant do nohting. unfair. without focus they doing 5 or 6 poison damage every turn and its so many. getting free poison. after plasma or supercharge i need heal and then they using poison bot by which killing me so fast. its not normal. poison bot need decrease and use only once as infernal android energy version (only for once use). this bot was cool too but there is now cooldown plus once time useable and plus 20 damage instead 25. need help about poison bot too. people dont like this. as me.

< Message edited by kaierti1 -- 11/14/2013 12:22:29 >
Post #: 34
11/14/2013 12:30:49   
Ranloth
Banned


Balance isn't biased, so stop saying it's because Mother1 owns the Bot. I own it myself, and yet suggested one or two ways to nerf it down - doesn't that prove your statement wrong? People want adjustments to the Bot, not rendering it completely useless - 4 turn Poison for free that can be cleansed and once per battle AND it can be cleansed on the first turn?

Based on your post, you seem to have an issue with TMs abusing it due to higher Tech. Do you think about everyone else using this Bot? I'm a BloodMage who has semi-tank build, and I use it often but Poison not as much - unless the battle is bound to be drawn out for a while - as well as my Omega Yeti. I've paid for the Poison which was (rightfully) nerfed twice. I wouldn't mind one more to fit the newer standards such as 50% damage as DoT (from 60%) which does make a difference in the long run, but nerfing it to the ground is out of the question.

Poison cannot kill, you deal fixed 3 damage (or up to 10 if crit), higher HP is a counter for all Poison, buff in HP will indirectly nerf the Bot (less effective), and IA can be still better because raged + capped one can deal up to whooping 45-50 damage on tanks, which can most likely kill you - as opposed to having to take four turns to get close to that. Whilst its effective in longer battles, it has its counters. With every single class being able to regenerate Energy, you can easily Heal more than once. With raise in base EP, nerf to EP draining skills, and everyone having a way to regenerate EP, this Bot keeps being indirectly nerfed by giving more counters. Yes, it could use maybe ONE more, but that'd be adjustment (such as bringing it to 50%), but not rendering it completely useless.
AQ Epic  Post #: 35
11/14/2013 12:39:14   
Mother1
Member

@Kaierti1

quote:

i like this because tech mages are op.


I didn't get you were talking about caster TM only. You said Tech mages are overpowered not specifying. So that was why I had to point that out.

As for you point about the poison bot causing someone's reason for not wanting the bot nerf like this biased just because they have the bot isn't a good way to start things off. Just because someone has the bot doesn't mean they are using it.

Plus your reasons for wanting it nerfed sound like it has to do 100% with caster TM because they now got a hard to beat combo due to last weeks balance change. Remember this change will affect everyone who has or will ever get the bot in the future not just caster TM.

The fact that field medic can cleanse out poison was the main reason they made the bot multi use. because making this bot special one time use with field medic being able to cleanse it out would make the bot extremely UP especially as I mentioned in 2 vs 2.

If anything the bot's cool down should be increase to 4 turns to that the cool down is on par with field medic, and/or give generator the ability to cleanse out poison as well.
Epic  Post #: 36
11/14/2013 13:56:03   
zion
Member

Longer battles are fine with me. However two things would need to change:
(1) Higher rewards for each fight
(2) Lower number of required battles for missions

Also, energy parasite needs to have its regen lowered - its getting the effect of three straight turns of assimilate each use = OP... with battery being hit, assimilate should be buffed

_____________________________

AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 37
11/14/2013 14:23:50   
Scyze
Member

Battles are planned on being longer! That's one of the things I've always wanted because the longer the battle becomes, the more strategy is involved. When making a new build, you now need to think even more on what you're going to do. I'll be spending a long time revising a new build I'll make.


For the changes with the amount of Credits you win, this can be done next week. If there are signs of battles being longer, constantly, then the Developers will (possibly) consider this idea. The amount of Credits you win isn't the main concern right now.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 38
11/14/2013 14:32:34   
zion
Member

^wouldn't mind lower prices across the board instead ;)
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 39
11/14/2013 14:42:34   
  RabbleFroth
ED Programmer


Gigantic reply post incoming!

quote:

1)Are formulas for Crits, Deflects and Block being adjusted? They have been taking too much importance and happen about more than they should lately, one of the aspects I hope you revise.
2)Are classes getting more skills added to their skill tree or will you just replace skills?
3) Are you clarifying what's the percentage that Shadow Arts currently protects?

1. Crit damage is being reduced, but no chance calculation changes this update.
2. Just replacing skills if a class needs it.
3. Is it currently confusing? Not sure what you mean here.

quote:

This is going to affect TLMs too. If you really want to nerf the Caster TM, you need to look at Assimilation instead.

We're adjusting Assimilation as well. Battery Backup in general was too strong, not just on TM.

quote:

Energy parasite is bad now, and your lowering the general effects of energy draining effects?

No direct changes to Energy Parasite this update. Indirectly it will be buffed by higher Energy pools.

On Static Charge:
quote:

1.) If blocked there is almost NO gain
2.) The percents are way to low, especially since you'll be reducing the damage weapons do. (a nerf to the already terrible Static Charge)
3.) The steal is based on damage, which means the only way its even worth using is with glass cannon or strength builds. (glass cannons don't need much mana anyways)

1. We're changing Static Charge to be unblockable, and it won't be able to crit or Rage to make sure that doesn't get out of hand.
2. The percentage will be going up significantly.
3. If this continues to be an issue, we'll look more at the skill.

quote:

Infernal Interdictor? Of course, they just love nerfing that weapon. If that's the case, I believe they should increase the weapon's core from 10% to 15/20%.

Infernal Interdictor's Massive Strike core ignores 10% defense on crits. You'll be critting the same amount as before, and 10% defense is the same amount of damage increase no matter what the base defense ignore from crit is. In other words, the damage increase from the core will be the same after this update.

quote:

I am glad Rabble has posted many issues to show his recognition of the situations in balance. I think he should do this more often.

I really like doing these discussions! Main issue is the amount of time it takes to do them. Sometimes there just isn't enough time during the week for it unfortunately. ):

quote:

I like how they make the battle duration longer where they increase Health. I guess They will return the 2 health points per 1 stat

Not quite that much. Each point in Health will give somewhere between 1 and 2 actual Health (Don't want to give a number yet since it's subject to change). As an example of how this would work: if each point now gives 1.1 Health, you will gain an extra point of Health for each 10 stats you put into it.

....Hopefully that sorta kinda makes sense.

quote:

Btw I think Cybers need a little power.

Several of their skills are getting a little love this update.

quote:

If there is more health and ep, why lower damage?

We felt it was better to change damage and health by a little bit, rather than just change one of them by a lot.

quote:

Have you considering changing the debuffs?

We're giving them a small love tap this week, will continue to look at them since I believe they are another culprit in making battles a little too quick.

quote:

Whait, so NPCs will keep passive skills, they wil just get a damage nerf?

For now. We haven't ruled out taking away Bloodlust and Reroute from them, but that may involve a fairly large balance pass since many of them rely on these skills to remain challenging.

quote:

Also, to Rabble, will you change Focus too?

Not in this update, but it's another area we want to take a look at.

quote:

In addition, will Reflex Boost get a mini buff to its +Dex boost?

Yes.


@Poison Bot discussion
At this point in the week we're pretty much locked in on the changes so we can focus on bug testing, polish, and final number tweaks to what we've already done. I'll bring it up for discussion next week though. Thanks for all the feedback on it!

< Message edited by RabbleFroth -- 11/14/2013 14:47:41 >
Post #: 40
11/14/2013 14:42:45   
HydroMonk
Member

Don't destroy old school BH style -
Post #: 41
11/14/2013 14:53:48   
Mother1
Member

@ Rabble

Next week could you guys look into Juggernaut at lower levels? Cause with the way things are now lower level jugs are destroying the even lower level masses. With this update I feel it will become worse since you are nerfing offense and crits two things the lower level masses need when facing these extra tanky jugs at lower levels. Plus with the added defensive buff you are giving this will also serve to buff the juggernaut since since as it is now even with offense stronger than defense lower level jugs are still dominating.
Epic  Post #: 42
11/14/2013 15:01:00   
axell5
Member

im just simply on the seventh cloud <3(means im just TOO happy to be true) I can't belive CH will get so much love this week and i surely can't wait!
AQ DF MQ Epic  Post #: 43
11/14/2013 15:09:15   
Mother1
Member

I remember many cyber asking for that buff to static. but at the same time now it will also become a free unblockable hit. At least it won't be usable with rage.
Epic  Post #: 44
11/14/2013 15:25:30   
SCAR
Member

This is kind of irrelevant, but welcome to a new era of Tanking! A high reason why I like mostly every game is to tank, or to play defensively, strength builds did need a nerf though, I remember with one build I had to of had around 30- resistance, (Not 25-30) and as I'm pretty sure I was battling a blood mage that had a strength build with "Deadly Aim" and when he raged he did 40 damage on me, I died and I thought it was pretty ridiculous. On a more relevant note, I think this game is going to be as balanced as beta was (Which is my opinion was one of the most balancing phases this game has had.)
Post #: 45
11/14/2013 15:29:15   
lionblades
Member

Thank you for all the time you have taken discussing and answering the questions Rabble. Much appreciated.
AQW  Post #: 46
11/14/2013 15:49:35   
Seteriel
Member

I got one major worry:
Bloodmage being intended as a very offensive class. With taking away deadly aim and now reducing damages along all classes, how will the BM class maintain its purpose ?

A second worry:
quote:

Energy parasite is bad now, and your lowering the general effects of energy draining effects?

I am also not overly confident here.
You adressed this quote already and i don't intend on discussing this one again - just sharing the worry.


Thank you very much RabbleFroth for all explaining

< Message edited by Seteriel -- 11/14/2013 15:50:46 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 47
11/14/2013 16:03:04   
zion
Member

Rabble: Energy Parasite is an OP move - its essentially assimilate that lasts for three turns
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 48
11/14/2013 16:07:35   
Mother1
Member

@ zion

Assimilate drains an exact number of energy every time, where as Energy parasite drains depending on how much energy your opponent has left. Get rid of your energy and the move is worthless.
Epic  Post #: 49
11/14/2013 16:16:37   
beaststyles
Member
 

@Mother1

I don't agree that lower level juggs should be changed exclusively. If juggernaut is changed, the change should apply across to all levels.
Post #: 50
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