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RE: Botanical Hazard

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12/1/2013 13:45:53   
lionblades
Member

I dont think it should be uncurable because that makes the bot even more uncounterable. Maybe tone down the % and give it a higher cooldown than before per use.
AQW  Post #: 26
12/1/2013 14:39:51   
Stabilis
Member

Make it cost as much as any other poison skill.

Or if you do want it to have an energy cost, you better believe it's only going to be usable once.

< Message edited by Depressed Void -- 12/1/2013 14:40:18 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 27
12/2/2013 2:23:17   
Altador987
Member

that's silly why would you only use it once when it can be healed upon, that's a waste of money especially seeing as it's affected by malf, i think there needs to be a limit but if no other bot costs mp then it shouldn't either i'm not so sure the amount of damage needs to be nerfed either however i do think the amount taken could be based upon focus of more than just tech as the highest i've ever seen it take is 8 but even the dex tech mages with no focus can make it take 6 and that's not quite balanced
AQW Epic  Post #: 28
12/2/2013 7:10:44   
Stabilis
Member

quote:

when it can be healed upon,


Pretty sure it will not be curable if it can only be used once. Especially if it will have more damage than a real poison skill.
AQ Epic  Post #: 29
12/2/2013 15:21:21   
ED Divine Darkness
Member

60% for 6 turns might help because it will make it more spread out, giving the opponent more time to kill you, giving you a weaker DOT for immediate damage, and Giving them time to heal.

19 average tec bonus from the robot, +17 base damage +focus 5=56
56x0.6=33.6 total poison damage
33.6 divided by 6= 5.6
Rounded to 6= 6 poison per turn for 6 turn. overall this would be a nerf to this robot.


< Message edited by ED Divine Darkness -- 12/2/2013 15:27:05 >
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 30
12/2/2013 15:26:52   
Altador987
Member

@depressed
you really want a poison that can do over 13 damage that is incurable, for four turns, which means at least an automatic 56 damage (assuming we add only 1 point to it) that is incurable with no cost (mind you, you can't expect them to make a specific bot cost mp as that's not balanced due to the fact that none of the other bots cost mp), i thought you wanted it nerfed O.o



< Message edited by Altador987 -- 12/2/2013 15:31:22 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 31
12/2/2013 15:29:10   
ED Divine Darkness
Member

^ what?
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 32
12/2/2013 15:30:10   
Mother1
Member

@ altador987

to them it is a nerf for with this you can't loop it anymore due to the fact that it is would only be 1 time use.

However, in all honestly that would be overnerfing it, for the users.

I still say that increasing the cool down to 4 turns, and lowering the the percent for 60% to 50% would help with this bot.
Epic  Post #: 33
12/2/2013 15:33:46   
Altador987
Member

@mother a 4 cooldown doesn't affect anything unless you're talking about changing it from 4 rounds to 3 as in a 1on1 after poisoning the bot is ready a turn before the poison ends so i'm not sure where you going with that exactly unless you mean 2v2? though i've never seen it looped much in 2v2
AQW Epic  Post #: 34
12/2/2013 15:50:10   
Stabilis
Member

quote:

you really want a poison that can do over 13 damage that is incurable, for four turns, which means at least an automatic 56 damage (assuming we add only 1 point to it) that is incurable with no cost (mind you, you can't expect them to make a specific bot cost mp as that's not balanced due to the fact that none of the other bots cost mp), i thought you wanted it nerfed O.o


56 damage once is not at all that much compared to the 40 damage every 4 turns with Infernal Android once charged. And even before that, its regular Strike is the same as Gamma Bot's, which is traditionally the strongest Robot until they all changed.

< Message edited by Depressed Void -- 12/2/2013 15:54:08 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 35
12/2/2013 15:54:53   
Mother1
Member

@ altador

Field medic has a 4 turn cooldown. making the bot cooldown 4 turn would not only make it harder to loop, but also put it on par with field medic turn wise.

In 1 vs 1 if you heal right after the poison is put on as it is now, field medic would be on cooldown for another turn when they use it the second time. With this change an early heal will stop that. Also in two vs two depending on build/class/opponent/ Poison can be looped. so this will also help out in the battle mode as well.
Epic  Post #: 36
12/2/2013 15:58:26   
Altador987
Member

@depressed
well there are a few differences to keep in mind: the infernal android needs a certain amount of time and or rage to achieve that which is a risk in itself as one has to stay alive long enough to use it and then usually longer than the cooldown to full use it's power, the gamma bot doesn't have a one hit special both of it's attacks are "loopable" not to mention all three bots mentioned have risks in their attacks (gamma bot can be both blocked and deflected, same with infernal android, and the yeti only has either a physical or energy attack that is blockable) the last point is that it's not just 56 damage it's 56 damage plus 3 other turns of possible (probable) damage not to mention the cooldown of heal and use of mp that the opponents themselves would use to both attack and defend

@mother
i thought that factor helped the victim of the poison for ex: i poison you and you decide to heal to halt any real damage, while i have 1 turn before you to poison you i most likely wont waste it as you'll probably heal again making the tactic useless. I guess i see if you're saying the person decides to take the full 4 turns of the poison (however isn't that more of a flaw in strategy...) and then decides to heal but personally i don't let it get to the third round unless i have no choice

< Message edited by Altador987 -- 12/2/2013 16:02:21 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 37
12/3/2013 4:30:06   
Pemberton
Member
 

 This poison bot is like a slap to the face of venom strike and poison grenade skill. Same power, 0 energy, INFINITE USE. I mean how did this get through balance testing?
Post #: 38
12/3/2013 9:31:10   
Altador987
Member

because it is indeed not the same power as it's highest is 8 and it gives those classes who don't have poison a chance to do so
AQW Epic  Post #: 39
12/3/2013 9:31:55   
Ranloth
Banned


 Same power, yeah. If you use high Tech and Focus 5 build, then yes, we can say they have the same power. Did you ever see a Level 20 player with max Poison skill (or near max)? Yeah? Did you see a Lvl 20 player with ~100 Tech and Focus 5? I don't think so, because it's impossible.

It's only the same power if you have high Tech and Focus 5, and that happens around Lvl 30+ area, not anywhere below, whilst Poison skills can get that high much earlier on. Next time, use a better example since yours is flawed.
AQ Epic  Post #: 40
12/3/2013 9:35:12   
Altador987
Member

well seeing as i have tried that specifically to see how high it could go and still only got 8 your argument is pretty invalid, at lvl 20 anyone with a bot is going to have an advantage whining about that fact is redundant...
AQW Epic  Post #: 41
12/3/2013 9:37:34   
Mother1
Member

@ Altador987

It can go higher then 8 as in one battle back when I was a tech mage, I did give technician to a high tech focus 5 TLM when he was malfed. on the last turn when the malf was gone he used the poison bot and got a dot of 9. So it is possible to get it higher then 8, but not without assistance from a tech boosting skill.
Epic  Post #: 42
12/3/2013 9:39:35   
Altador987
Member

i get your point and i can acknowledge that but that's still not the same of a max from hunter and tlms is even higher not to mention just how it can be strengthened by tech it can be weakened by malf
AQW Epic  Post #: 43
12/3/2013 9:48:25   
Ranloth
Banned


 It's minimally below Poison skills for a high Tech + Focus 5 build, and by minimally, I mean very small difference. Remember that the Bot should be balanced at all levels, and its power is smaller with lower Tech and Focus, thus even weaker than max Venom/Toxic which costs Energy, yes, but has high damage as soon as you can train it.

Lowering it to 50% will do the job. It'll be -1 DpT in most cases, and perhaps -2 DpT in rare cases, which makes it -4 damage less over 4 turns, and adds up if they loop it. Furthermore, if Focus gets nerfed again - to match lower weapon damage - then the Poison may fall down, again, to -2 DpT in most cases, and remain at -1 DpT in rare cases.

The Bot was indirectly nerfed already, as were the other Poison skills, after each class has received Energy returning skill. It's easier to replenish own Energy thus easier to Heal and cleanse the Poison. It's an indirect nerf nevertheless, regardless of what happens to your Energy during the battle.
AQ Epic  Post #: 44
12/3/2013 10:11:18   
Altador987
Member

that's not very fair for those who don't and can't use the bot more than twice in a match and aren't specifically using a tech 5 focus build
AQW Epic  Post #: 45
12/3/2013 10:58:07   
DarkDevil
Member

isn't that what all bots are which is focus.

it is a bot after all so it should be about focus.

other bots won't deal more than 3 without focus.

anyway due to how rounding works 50% over 4 turns is not that good but over 3 turns will make it less countered by heal and equivalent to other poisons , and on bot basis.
AQ Epic  Post #: 46
12/3/2013 11:00:58   
Altador987
Member

i didn't say without focus i said without 5 focus i specified that for a reason s 4 focus is still very usable not to mention many bots have absolute abilities that are unaffected by focus at all, and how does that make it equivalent to other poisons?
AQW Epic  Post #: 47
12/3/2013 14:58:51   
Ranloth
Banned


 DarkDevil, Botanical Hazard's Poison has normal rounding - it doesn't round up whenever it' possible, but rounds down where appropriate.
AQ Epic  Post #: 48
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