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RE: Hatchling Rush

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12/2/2013 15:10:52   
ED Divine Darkness
Member

or just make base HP higher?
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 51
12/2/2013 16:39:19   
DarkDevil
Member

i agree to making it deal 85% dmg and 25-30% effect , and stay 3 turns.

this makes it usefull but not abused nor OP.

otherwise its energy cost should get up to 20 or more since its a huge game changer , applying it to someone with 30-40 hp means he has no other option but to die.

25-30% will make it only reduce not destroy the heal and it will nearly be a turn of low damage out of the 85%.

valk don't take this to smoke or malf this is not about them and is going off-topic.
AQ Epic  Post #: 52
12/2/2013 16:51:56   
Altador987
Member

is the core really that bad? i mean it's not like you're gonna use it in the beginning as that'd be a waste, and you have to actually get the person to low enough hp where healing is a necessity for it to be advantageous, also it'd require a lot of strategy as well as to make sure the opponent is reliant on a heal to win... (i've only seen the core used once and while i lost because of it i wasn't angry or anything the dude took advantage of a strategetically sound situation and won), also it doesn't affect shields correct? if the person can't kill you within 3 turns then what difference does it make? i wasn't sure i wanted it but now that i've read a lot of arguments i think i might try and get it due to it's strategic needs (honestly it looks like more of a challenge for the user than the victim), i don't know about damage either does it do extra or just regular? if regular i don't see a point in changing it as frostbite steals 5 mp for regular damage as well
AQW Epic  Post #: 53
12/2/2013 16:57:10   
ValkyrieKnight
Member

Since this core I've seen numerous people poison bot me then immediately go for the core, or poison grenade me then go for the core. This can also be abused by debuff abusers, what makes or made them weak is if you can hold out their entire debuff, heal after then turn the tides in your favor. As of current I've seen too many people gimp my healing as soon as I got near 50% health. This core also gimps my mark of blood, generator etc as already mentioned. Allowing this core to effect all skills was a bad idea.
AQW Epic  Post #: 54
12/2/2013 17:02:30   
Altador987
Member

so are you upset with the core itself or certain synergies that are advantaged with said core? because it seems that you're upset with the core plus another specific skill, not to mention you could heal early which would end the poison and make the core pointless for another 4 turns other than mark of blood and generator and give you an opportunity to use parasite in your favor
AQW Epic  Post #: 55
12/2/2013 19:40:44   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Ack, as soon as I get back on the forums I get a lot more replies to threads telling people to deal with it and figure out your own solution. I'm earnestly trying to rebalance something that I find unsuitable for the current game, and you can disagree with me if you want, but please actually be respectful about it and try not to sound like an immature 4-year old who doesn't think before they start talking. I'm really tempted to just leave the forums for a long time again.

Well, if used correctly (which in itself is not too hard to do), you'll force the opponent to heal at least once during the move's duration (either that or they die). Considering most heals are around 45, that's a solid 20+ health lost when trying to heal. Compare that to an active primary core like meteor strike which does around an extra 5 damage and is unblockable, but costs 4 energy less. Overall I'd have to say that the number benefits and the control that Hatchling Rush gives is way better than pretty much any current primary active core.
Epic  Post #: 56
12/2/2013 20:12:23   
Altador987
Member

honestly i think meteor is UP anyway for what it's supposed to do and i think that's simply due to it being the basis of cores and they've gotten more inventive ya know? I think the other emp shower thing is also horrid now and could be fixed. So while i understand your argument i'm not sure it has to do with the core itself and rather just compared to some other cores which are questionable in my opinion
AQW Epic  Post #: 57
12/2/2013 20:15:46   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 I still find use for meteor shower if I think a bludgeon is too risky and I don't necessarily need the extra 2-3 more damage that bludgeon gives at level 1. However I can see your point in why you think meteor shower is UP.

And yea, energy storm is garbage, and so is energy shot now that they have energy costs. Used to be somewhat useful before they had an energy cost though. In any case, they should buff the current primary active cores (*cough, growth serum desperately needs one) to match hatchling rush then since I do appreciate the creativity behind the new core.
Epic  Post #: 58
12/2/2013 20:21:59   
Altador987
Member

i really think with the way they're really trying to get diversity, all that needs to be done to certain older cores (and classes) is some tweakage and buffing rather than nuffing to allow for both creativity as well as enjoyability
AQW Epic  Post #: 59
12/2/2013 20:30:07   
Emperor_Blitz
Member

I think it is OP really it is lasting 3 turns. Maybe lower the turn amount it lasts for costs 14 energy. Azrael's gun to force somebody to strike is 20 energy that is alot if you think about it 20 energy is 1/3 of your overall energy. Anyways it kind of is Op
Epic  Post #: 60
12/2/2013 20:33:52   
Altador987
Member

that core literally chooses the turn for the opponent i'd say that should cost a good amount of mp to strip an opponent of choosing any move at all, the only counter to it is the botanical armor which just about no one uses and that core has to be activated prior to the gun
AQW Epic  Post #: 61
12/2/2013 20:36:05   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 I think we can come to a consensus that a vast amount of previously released active cores need to be buffed to be on par with current robots and cores.
Epic  Post #: 62
12/2/2013 20:42:53   
Altador987
Member

hmm i'm not so sure certain cores should be on par with robots idk i guess i just assumed the robot should have the stronger specialty but i could be persuaded either way
AQW Epic  Post #: 63
12/2/2013 20:50:42   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 well, I meant that bunny bots should be brought up to the same potency as botanical hazards and IA; same with assault bots and other similarly weak robots.
Epic  Post #: 64
12/2/2013 20:54:01   
Altador987
Member

bunny bots are literally a joke especially as a cyber hunter as i can use static charge which is basically a normal attack and i don't take damage lol so yes some bots need reworking.
AQW Epic  Post #: 65
12/2/2013 20:56:46   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 The only times I've successfully used bunny bots are:

1. Against NPCs. Actually really effective against nightwraith to drain all his EP and then use color blast.
2. In jugg against players who don't know what it does
3. probably 1/1500 random 1v1 PvPs.
Epic  Post #: 66
12/2/2013 20:58:31   
Mother1
Member

@ Exploding

The bunny bot out of all the bots are the most tactical. This bot has the ability make your opponent play outside of their game, or if the situation is right even cause them to skip turns.

Especially since cores are no longer free meaning with the right situations this bot is very tactical and useful.

Epic  Post #: 67
12/2/2013 20:58:37   
Altador987
Member

well then i applaud you as i see the bot as a complete waste of credits and space lmfao but i do like it when they give me new colors i changed one of my accs cause i liked the colors so much xD
AQW Epic  Post #: 68
12/2/2013 21:02:59   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator
quote:

@ Exploding

The bunny bot out of all the bots are the most tactical. This bot has the ability make your opponent play outside of their game, or if the situation is right even cause them to skip turns.

Especially since cores are no longer free meaning with the right situations this bot is very tactical and useful.


It's not that the bot is difficult to use; it's just that it's literally impossible, especially against a fully equipped opponent. Now with energy draining skills that cost 0 energy to use and are typically a very good choice (I'd like to call them the new passives because they are in a sense), it is possible for an opponent to fight with viable attacks without even needing to strike a single time. You can loop gun, auxiliary, robot, and energy draining skill cooldowns infinitely. The bot is useful in those rare situations that you can use it, and in those rare situations you're still gonna have to be freakishly good at predicting the opponent. Hatchling Rush is way easier and typically reaps equal benefits to a successful bunny bot attack, and the same applies to many other robots.
Epic  Post #: 69
12/2/2013 21:18:27   
Mother1
Member

@ Altodar

I have it with an alt, and at lower levels if you are trying to use the effect for forced strike it is or was easier to get, until they added that status bar that tell any effect that is on you.

@ exploding

I have seen this bot used to throw off opponents successfully. But look at what you are comparing. Hatching rush which works with all forms of healing with the bunny bot that works only with strike. Very bad comparison since one works with only one move which the other works with all moves that do that effect.

Most people call it worthless because most only buy for the hope of having their opponents attack themselves rather than throwing their opponents off their game.

I have seen it used to make debuffs worthless when the opponent has one type of weapon that goes with the debuff, and the rest that goes against it. Or another case, my opponent primary exploits a weakness of mine, while his other weapons go against the hard grain. Bunny bot him and boom he can' exploit my weakness for 3 turns. Seen it done and while it might be harder to do so it can be done.
Epic  Post #: 70
12/2/2013 21:25:31   
Altador987
Member

^are you talkin about the gun
AQW Epic  Post #: 71
12/2/2013 21:35:27   
Mother1
Member

No I am not talking about Azreal's will.

I am talking about at lower levels most players I see aren't fully equipped or do have a clue what the bot does. So if you are looking to use it for effect it works better at lower levels.

At higher levels it is use to throw your opponent off their game or in some cases case them to skip.

Epic  Post #: 72
12/2/2013 21:38:50   
Altador987
Member

oh... i know, i'm confused i'm not sure what i said to make you tell me this lol though i'm sure you had a reason
AQW Epic  Post #: 73
12/2/2013 23:31:42   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator
quote:

I have seen it used to make debuffs worthless when the opponent has one type of weapon that goes with the debuff, and the rest that goes against it. Or another case, my opponent primary exploits a weakness of mine, while his other weapons go against the hard grain. Bunny bot him and boom he can' exploit my weakness for 3 turns. Seen it done and while it might be harder to do so it can be done.


You bring up valid situations, but those don't happen very often. Since you don't know what opponent you're facing, using conventional all-purpose bot like IA, botanical hazards, the new abyss bots, etc... would almost always be better in general situations. The bunny bots are only good in a few select ones, and other bots that are far more flexible do almost as good as it in those situations where the bunny bot excels.

Overall the bunny bots can be very good but just aren't flexible enough to be used as often as other robots.
Epic  Post #: 74
12/5/2013 18:30:22   
Steel Slayer
Member

I like the idea of this bot nerfing only the next heal used, but leave it 50%/3 turns, this makes it a lot more strategic in use, the only thing is you would then have to make it useable more than once or it would be UP. Also, what do you guys think about making the assault bot able to affect the healing debuff from this core?
Epic  Post #: 75
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