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RE: Hatchling Rush

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12/14/2013 14:45:22   
Dual Thrusters
Member

Lol it's ironic how the Devs said they wanted to make battles last longer, but both the bot and the weapon say otherwise.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 126
12/14/2013 15:14:56   
ValkyrieKnight
Member

Someone probably already brought this up but wow is Hatching Rush highly OP'd in 2v2. It's far too easy to hit someone with H-Rush then like, bunker cannon or plasma bolt them down using stat abuse. Nothing you can do to recover from it.
AQW Epic  Post #: 127
12/15/2013 0:07:14   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator
quote:

Lol it's ironic how the Devs said they wanted to make battles last longer, but both the bot and the weapon say otherwise.


Poison bot and IA at the time did more damage in total (not so sure about poison bot now). Necrosis was very useful in 2v2, however. 1v1... good with MoB but otherwise not too useful compared to other bots.
Epic  Post #: 128
12/15/2013 1:04:34   
Remorse
Member

^ I agree,

These are close to being some of the worst core ideas since azreal the cores.
Epic  Post #: 129
12/15/2013 6:52:40   
Elloisoul
Member

I log in and fought people using this core and particularlly i dont have any problems because if they used it on you u need to go all offense make them waste a turn healing or using gen keep pushing so when the 3 turns is down u heal them using my str build merc or support merc also if u guys are so afraid of this core just freaking use static smash or granade or emp if u so scared of the core i mean granade can do a -41 at max to counter it if ur so worried about it besides its good as it is it prevents players from being dependant on their Mob frenzy and heal it means you need to think of a back up plan because tank relies mostly on their Heal so instead why dont u focus like putting skills on ur defense buffs to last the 3 turns and heal after its gone if u still want to heal badly
Post #: 130
12/15/2013 7:32:24   
DarkDevil
Member

quote:

it means you need to think of a back up plan

you don't need to counter a core.
if you MUST counter a core then its obviously OP.
AQ Epic  Post #: 131
12/15/2013 7:34:59   
kaierti1
Banned


 i want say something. it is really good core and helps us to win. i dont understand why are u complaining? u can buy it with 35k or 45k credits or varium and thanks to team that it is buyable item with credits. u can play with it. what is problem? u want nerf it? no it is not right. if u think this is op "core" buy this weapon and use for yourself. plus it is blockable dont forget and requering 14 energy (not 10 as plasma meteor) dont forget these 2 things. 14 energy and blockable

< Message edited by kaierti1 -- 12/15/2013 7:36:40 >
Post #: 132
12/15/2013 7:37:27   
Ranloth
Banned


 1) Balance doesn't work on the basis of "don't complain, abuse yourself".
2) I shouldn't be forced to use a specific item.
3) You've provided no reason why it should or shouldn't be nerfed.
4) Amount of Credits/Varium you spend on it is irrelevant - purchase cost doesn't balance items.
5) Define "us" when you say "helps us to win".
6) Players use it for the effect, not damage. No one complains about the damage but the effect.
AQ Epic  Post #: 133
12/15/2013 7:42:31   
DarkDevil
Member

read the thread pls , we have mentioned these reasons.
1. cost is not an excuse on balance.
2. metors have an effect of 5 dmg while this has an effect of at least 20.
3. this skill affects 2 ultimates and and all classes except cyber (where it only affects heal)
4. it has a long duration , where in 2 vs 2 using it on someone with 70% hp means he is dead with no way to save him.

< Message edited by DarkDevil -- 12/15/2013 7:46:06 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 134
12/15/2013 7:45:27   
kaierti1
Banned


 Trans,
and im talking on core too. they are complaining that they die soon and it is op "core". and after that team will nerf it. im afraid because of that
DarkDevil,
thats difference
plasma meteor is unblockable, 110% damage, need only 10 energy.
Hatchling rush is blockable, has nice core, need 14 energy to use.

< Message edited by kaierti1 -- 12/15/2013 7:48:39 >
Post #: 135
12/15/2013 7:48:12   
Ranloth
Banned


 But you've provided no info in regards to why it isn't overpowered. These complaints are backed up with data and solutions, which falls under constructive feedback. Everyone make valid points and try to back it up with something, and how it could be nerfed but not necessarily to the point where it'd be completely useless.
AQ Epic  Post #: 136
12/15/2013 7:52:16   
kaierti1
Banned


 Just i dont understand - it is not skill, it is not class, it is core and i think its not right to change or nerf now. but u are talking so much and maybe team will nerf it. i don't like
Post #: 137
12/15/2013 7:52:22   
Scyze
Member

But the Core itself is blockable + deals a minimum of 3 damage. I bought the Weapon because of the Strength BHs who use Mark of Blood. When used correctly, it can be very useful.
However, this Core has 2 counters which I know of: you can have high defences so you survive for 3 turns or heal before you feel like the opponent is going to use it (similar to Azrael's Will).

quote:

if you MUST counter a core then its obviously OP.
To counter the effects of Omega Override, you can use Reflexive Boost of Technician if Technology or Dexterity is lowered. Isn't the Core OP as the opponent can dish out more damage?
quote:

this has an effect of at least 20.
For that to work, the opponent needs to heal.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 138
12/15/2013 8:00:10   
DarkDevil
Member

omega override is only 30% which is assuming it is on a defensive stat of 50 going to be 15 , that's barely 3 damage a turn for a total of 9 which is not that high.

quote:

For that to work, the opponent needs to heal.


so you are saying he should die instead of heal meaning this core is deadly (by your words), or he should heal to recieve a huge effect. , or not heal for 3 turns which is 6 hits in 2 vs 2 ?
if you want it that way then the cost should increase and duration should decrease so it will remain 20 hp for 20 energy with a strategic use.
also this will make it unusable on classes that can't collect alot of energy which is also unbalanced , also making it heavily abused for heavy nukers , currently its heavily abused by all.

< Message edited by DarkDevil -- 12/15/2013 8:06:43 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 139
12/15/2013 8:09:37   
Scyze
Member

@DarkDevil,
If you don't want to die, then it's better off you having more defences. If you have high defences, and you still cannot do anything about it, then it's either the Class which is the problem or the Core itself. Against a Class with a de-buff, you have little chance of survival if you don't have Energy.

quote:

omega override is only 30% which is assuming it is on a defensive stat of 50 going to be 15 , that's barely 3 damage a turn for a total of 9 which is not that high.
Most of the time, I see Dexterity/Technology over 60. I have 86 so let's take that as an example; 30% of 86 is 25.8.
When used with Rage, the damage will be high cause you'd be ignoring 45% of the opponent's defences.

The effect of this Core is different in each battle mode. If you have this Core and you're against a Juggernaut, there's a problem for the Juggernaut. Now I am not a huge fan of Juggernaut but because there's a 2v1 assault, same with 2v2, this Core does become too strong to deal with.

< Message edited by Scyze -- 12/15/2013 8:13:53 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 140
12/15/2013 8:17:28   
DarkDevil
Member

what you are saying is that omega override is a counter to abuse , abuse on the odds which fall to the person's falt , even so its effect will be 4 from 3 which is only +3 damage.

on the other hand heal is universal you can't say that heal is a person's falt.

to avoid confusion beteeen normal effect and increased odds.

normal use is 9 on override and 12 on the abuse.
normal use is 20 on hatchling rush and 30 on the odd (using skills like ultimate or mark of blood)
what i mean is that the core effect can increase due to something but this doesn't include normal use therefore it can't be a subject of balance.

< Message edited by DarkDevil -- 12/15/2013 8:21:37 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 141
12/15/2013 8:27:07   
Scyze
Member

@DarkDevil,
The damage you deal once you use Omega Override varies, you might not deal +3 damage, you might end up dealing more than that.

quote:

on the other hand heal is universal you can't say that heal is a person's falt.
If you know that the opponent has used Hatchling Rush against you and you decide to heal, it's your fault that you've lost about 20 HP. If you don't want to end up healing, you need to have more defences. If you haven't got any Skill(s) that increases your defences, it's your fault that you haven't got the Skills. You're probably abusing one, or two, particular Skills and therefore you cannot have enough Skill Points.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 142
12/15/2013 8:34:33   
DarkDevil
Member

quote:

if you want it that way then the cost should increase and duration should decrease so it will remain 20 hp for 20 energy with a strategic use.
also this will make it unusable on classes that can't collect alot of energy which is also unbalanced , also making it heavily abused for heavy nukers , currently its heavily abused by all.


its a person falt to heal after being hit by it but not after 3 turns , the duration is too high for the magnitude.
you have to either pick making it universally used (reducing the magnitude) or strategically used (higher cost and shorter duration).
AQ Epic  Post #: 143
12/15/2013 8:41:26   
Scyze
Member

quote:

(higher cost and shorter duration).
If you want to increase the Energy Cost and lower the duration, how do you think people will react to this? Honestly I don't care if this Core gets nerfed but the cost of buying the Weapon is ridiculously high. The best thing to do would be to lower the duration rather than the cost, as players can still use this. Lowering it to two turns should be fine but if the cost increases to 20, there's little point in using this Core.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 144
12/15/2013 8:46:26   
DarkDevil
Member

which leads us to the other idea which is nerfing the magnitude and becoming universal so it will always be usable and usefull and none will disagree on except ppl who want to abuse it.

edit:
the idea of being higher cost and shorter duration is to make ppl think twice before using it , its a possible solution but some may not like it.
its effect will go down from being "ok hes not 100% hp use it so he will die" to "will he not heal in two turns , will i need those energy ?" , in other words it will be stratigical , which ppl won't like.

another edit: axel read the first 3 lines in this.

< Message edited by DarkDevil -- 12/15/2013 8:54:57 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 145
12/15/2013 8:50:37   
axell5
Member

if this core gets nerfed by what you say(increase cost and shorten the duration) expect many rages wanting their credits back for the weapon
AQ DF MQ Epic  Post #: 146
12/15/2013 9:20:51   
Predator9657
Member

^ We can't sacrifice balance for the sake of players raging due to their weapons not being OP anymore.
Epic  Post #: 147
12/15/2013 9:38:38   
Calogero
Member

Remember the Azrael Gun cores?? Exactly, same principles apply here.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 148
12/15/2013 10:03:01   
axell5
Member

but the core isn't OP at all?! Sure it cuts in half the healing capabilities but if you heal before he uses it you're fine, oh and if you tank you have higher chance to survive
AQ DF MQ Epic  Post #: 149
12/15/2013 10:20:45   
Mother1
Member

@ Axell5

With the way balance is in the game, even cores that would normally be balanced can be too strong if it works well with stronger builds. While this core can help you beat tanks you can barely damage by weakening their heal (which is why I call the core itself genius) Most people are using it to get quick wins, or prevent their opponents from healing right away.

Epic  Post #: 150
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