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Core balance

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12/10/2013 0:18:17   
Thylek Shran
Member

1.

Because support has been at least nerfed twice since the Omega release the cores
related to support have been nerfed and buffed too. To get them back in balance
with other cores like Ninja Reflexes, Deflection Shield and Lucky Strike there has to
be changed something.

The affected cores are:

- Nanosteel Armor (Armor core: Decreases the ignored defense of incoming Critical Strikes by 8%)
- Primary / Gun / Auxiliary Mastery (+4% chance for critical damage)


Balance would be in this direction:

- Nanosteel Armor (Armor core: Decreases the ignored defense of incoming Critical Strikes by 6%)
- Primary / Gun / Auxiliary Mastery (+5% chance for critical damage)



2.

Also Ninja Reflexes and Deflection Shield should get balanced to each other.
In Delta and I think in early Omega Dexterity was easier to raise than Technology
but now they are even. So there is no reason while Ninja Reflexes only does have a
4% chance to block why Deflection Shield has a 6% bonus to deflect.
Both should be even, as example at +5%.



3.

Lucky Strike: Only has a +2% bonus to connect while Ninja reflexes has a +4% bonus.
Both are related to the same ammount of Dexterity so that they should be even instead.
Also Celtic Cleaver´s Lucky Strike has a +7% (!) bonus to connect. This should be
lowerd because Celtic Cleaver is no longer a Varium item as it was before Omega.



4.

Generally the core balance does need a review because of the many changes

< Message edited by Thylek Shran -- 12/10/2013 0:19:33 >
DF Epic  Post #: 1
12/10/2013 0:28:32   
Dual Thrusters
Member

Celtic Cleaver should still be able to keep its superiority. Even if it isn't varium exclusive anymore, it sure does takes a bit of credits to obtain. Also, it is locked to being an energy sword, while lucky strike +2% can be put on any weapon.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 2
12/10/2013 5:18:46   
Thylek Shran
Member

I think that +7% connect chance is way OPed compared to +2%.
Its like 30-35 Dexterity points for connect vs. 16-20 Dexterity points.
Sure Celtiv Cleaver´s Lucky Strike can be a bit better than the standard
Lucky Strike, maybe about 2% points.

The standard Lucky Strike (+2%) should have the same % as its counterpart
Ninja Reflexes. So if would make sense if Ninja Reflexes, Deflection Shield
and Lucky Strike would be all at 5% while Celtic Cleaver´s Lucky Strike could
stay at 7%.



< Message edited by Thylek Shran -- 12/10/2013 5:29:35 >
DF Epic  Post #: 3
12/10/2013 6:13:14   
DarkDevil
Member

i agree nanosteel will have to be brough down by at least 2% since it affected 15% of crict , now it affects 27% of crict.

the reason ninja reflex is lesser to deflection is because block reduces most of damage down to 3-4 while deflection only cuts in two.
AQ Epic  Post #: 4
12/10/2013 6:25:43   
Ranloth
Banned


 Uh, I don't think it's necessary though. Offense is still stronger than defense, and you need to deal damage to win - therefore, it will always be minimally stronger than defense so you will be able to win the battle (you, obviously, need to deal damage). That's the reason why defensive cores are stronger than offensive - and you can compare stat progression + weapon damage, to Def/Res respectably, and you will see that offense is superior.
AQ Epic  Post #: 5
12/10/2013 8:37:41   
Thylek Shran
Member

quote:

the reason ninja reflex is lesser to deflection is because block reduces most of damage down to 3-4 while deflection only cuts in two.

Yes but this has nothing to do with cores. What you describe are the mechanisms of blocks and deflections.
Why should cores compensate differences between blocks and deflections which maybe is unbalance
between dex and technology ?


@Trans
Of course you need to do damage to win. But defense could be superior to offense
because of skills that protect and regenerate HPs and EPs. Good examples was
heal loop TMs during Gamma and heal loop CHs and TaMs during Delta.

< Message edited by Thylek Shran -- 12/10/2013 22:13:26 >
DF Epic  Post #: 6
12/10/2013 8:49:56   
DarkDevil
Member

trying to change that into numbers you will see 4% block is superior to 6% deflection.

let's use focus numbers , 45 dmg , 30 defence.
4% block is 0.48 dmg reduction a turn.
6% deflection is 0.42 damage reduction.

see the gap , also assuming you can use a ranged weapon every turn which is not always true.
since we are comparing % not stats then the relative gap will always remain wether damage is increased or defence is decreased or vice versa.

also 4% block is 16 dex and 6% deflection is 15 tech so as you can see it is balanced.
on the dex vs tech , tech controls bot damage so it balances up.

< Message edited by DarkDevil -- 12/10/2013 9:22:18 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 7
12/11/2013 5:23:11   
Thylek Shran
Member

quote:

also 4% block is 16 dex and 6% deflection is 15 tech so as you can see it is balanced.

According to the infos from Wikipedia 1% Block is like 2.5 Dexterity and 1% Deflection like 3 Technology.
That would mean that Ninja Reflexes is like 10 Dexterity (2.5*4)and Deflection Shield like 18 Technology (3*6).
8 stat points difference is not balance.

Maybe the 4% of Ninja Reflexes was because of the block bonus from old Shadow Arts which got removed.

http://epicduelwiki.com/w/Block#Blocking
http://epicduelwiki.com/w/Deflection#Deflection
DF Epic  Post #: 8
12/11/2013 7:07:37   
DarkDevil
Member

ok , i got mixed up with the numbers yet its numerically equal in reduction , just how stats cost.
and no it doesn't have anything to do with shadow arts since cores are made equal for all not just hunteers.

in the end they both have the same effect or nearly the same , if you are to make them equal then deflection will be 7% while block will remain 4% for more close numerical result.
AQ Epic  Post #: 9
12/11/2013 10:26:11   
kosmo
Member
 

 @Thylek, I can t agree.You re asking to buff the cores that already are kinda stronger than others, wepon mastery and ninja reflex are both very strong as they are now.If a 7% lucky strike was avariable in the shop as a cheap 6 k core it would be overused and game breaking if you ask to me, so it s good for it to be 2% for the core you buy (maybe it can become 3%) and 7% on tthe expensive rare celtic cleaver.I can t see how nanosteel armor can be considered op.The only core that needs some real balance is hetchilling rush:strenght builds prevail now, with very little effort in thinking they ll simply use the core on 2nd-3rd turn and kill you before the core goes down or after u heal at 50%.....It s alot cheaper than arzel gun because its a sure use on any tank build.
@Trans.If you consider the impact of defensive skills(wich are alot stronger), the effect of bots and expecially the impact of luck, the offensive builds cannot have a win % comparable to defensive builds.Longer battles=more time to turn it in your favor=more wins.
Epic  Post #: 10
12/11/2013 10:30:13   
Ranloth
Banned


 Oh yes, tanks sacrifice time it takes to win for a better ratio - whilst offensive builds may win more often and faster, but with worse ratio. Of course. But when we're comparing offense to defense alone, you need offense to win the battle and it needs to be superior to defense - but to an extent, not where one is a must choice over the other to even play.
AQ Epic  Post #: 11
12/11/2013 10:41:13   
kosmo
Member
 

 ^Yes, and 5 focus is the best way to do it, or it was, since these new weps are around.All we get from this is evryone loosing more, depending expecially on how first turn is working right now.
Epic  Post #: 12
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