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RE: Stamina Points (SP)

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12/27/2013 11:05:57   
One Winged Angel1357
Member
quote:

Also shield like mineral armour, hybrid armour, plasma armour, and shadow arts could perhaps be given a stamina cost rather then energy making these shield uncomparable with the energy costing ones and giving them a whole new potential for variety and strategies.


Instead of a one time charge of SP for these could we do a slow constant drain of SP making shields more tactical than use and move on? The way I see it is that if you are putting energy, or in this case stamina, into being defensive it is going to be a slow drain on you limiting your abilities to exert force on your enemy
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 26
12/27/2013 11:18:01   
Remorse
Member

^

Hmm, Yeh I actually like that idea.

If you mean the shields cost smaller amounts of SP but instead have a cost every turn the shield is active, effectively reducing the stamina gain per turn possibly into the negatives while the shields are active.

The benefit being you can cast the shield with a much lower amount of SP to begin with as it is drained per turn.

They would also need to make the shield discontinue if the player does not have enough stamina to sustain the shield for the duration of the shield.


Epic  Post #: 27
12/27/2013 11:37:57   
GearzHeadz
Member

Or how about just a new bar alongside the hp and mp bars? You get a fixed amount per game, enemies can't drain it, and you can't gain any back. You have to choose to use it tactically. Maybe only cores could be spent on it.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 28
12/27/2013 11:41:52   
Mother1
Member

@ Gearheadz

If that happened then if the duel took to long it would be a draw. Why because moves that are normally free would have a cost if this went into play. It would really restrict game play if you took too long.
Epic  Post #: 29
12/27/2013 11:59:18   
Remorse
Member

@ Gearz that is pretty much idea...

did you not read the first post? or perhaps I worded it too hard to understand?

The only real difference is my version you get back 1/10th of the total every turn, and the cost applies to current free costing skills.


Though I do like a lot of the alteration suggestions that could also effect stamina mentioned within the thread but not on the original post.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 12/27/2013 12:00:58 >
Epic  Post #: 30
12/27/2013 12:08:44   
GearzHeadz
Member

No my version is different then yours because yours said it'd be a fixed 50 points. Mine would be able to have stat points added to it, so it could be as high as ep or hp.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 31
12/27/2013 12:47:36   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 Remorse you might want to go play the OG Adventure Quest if you haven't because what I said is basically how some items work in AQ and I basically ripped it off to put in your suggestion
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 32
12/27/2013 12:56:19   
Ranloth
Banned


 The only difference is, SP in AQ isn't a must to fight with monsters. It's meant to aid you, but not be forced to use it - Misc items aren't mandatory to use and neither are skills that cost SP. It's to aid you and doesn't upgrade with anything but your level. On the other hand, if SP was to be used for skills in ED which you do need to use, in order to win, that's a different story..
AQ Epic  Post #: 33
12/27/2013 14:07:18   
veneeria
Member

i had the same idea a while ago: Huge thumbs up for me here.

I support this.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 34
12/27/2013 19:00:18   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 Trans this would require a lot of careful planning which seems to be lacking in some balance updates so good luck to the devs if they want to give this a try.

Not bashing the Dev's but it seems things always go exactly opposite of how it was planned
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 35
12/27/2013 20:51:50   
CN2025
Member

like omega and passives to actives dont do any thing thats gona thin our player base even more
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 36
12/28/2013 1:28:47   
Remorse
Member

@ Trans,

Just because it is not a high requirement in AE doesn't mean it has to be like that in ED,

Anyway its only becomes a highly needed thing because the devs chose to make cores so influential in games, also pre having cores stamina would probably not even need to be considered as lower levels would almost never find stamina to be a constraint since they don't use cores to burn it rapidly perhaps only the occasional free costing skill like static grenade but not enough to make stamina a constraint.

This is a good thing because stamina therefore won't add to the difficulty of the game because for lower levels it's impact would be almost non existent and once they learn the basics and get to a higher level they will be ready to understand how cores and 0 energy costing skills work and how stamina limits them.


@ Gearz,

It needs to be a fixed thing because the whole point is for it do reduce the frequency of these high impact skills and cores without putting constraint on energy.

If people could increase the base amount of stamina then they can continue to abuse them currently as it would hardly be a constraint to them.
I do think that people should increase the amount gained per turn with support however that would be acceptable because they can use these skills more often but not all at once.




@ Everyone

Thanks for all the support guys :)

< Message edited by Remorse -- 12/28/2013 1:55:33 >
Epic  Post #: 37
12/28/2013 7:37:26   
Ranloth
Banned
quote:

Just because it is not a high requirement in AE doesn't mean it has to be like that in ED

What..? I just commented on how it works in AQ, which seems to be what you're suggesting here, thus somewhat of a rip off suggestion because it'd work on pretty much the same basis, but I've pointed out how the system operates in AQ and that it's not necessary. Nothing was aimed at your suggestion, but OWA's post.
AQ Epic  Post #: 38
12/28/2013 7:53:58   
DarkDevil
Member

i think the amount of stamina should be a stable number and there should be no way to reduce or increase either costs or regain or max.

it will be easier to balance as everyone will have equal access to it as when using cores or free skills , avoiding the current problem with energy.

i don't think adding it on supp will balance supp , the problem with supp is with rage and crict but let's not discuss this here.

lastly i think each class should have 2 skills operated by stamina.
MOB , battery , statics , parasite , adrenaline rush , frenzy , assim .
on ch i don't know which skill would be as the only one would be static charge , any idea.

i don't think shields should work on stamina so we won't reach a scenario where a shield cost will be low.

also the amount regained should be like 10 with attack and sidearm costing like 3 and aux 5 , would enable better use of items as you would only use a core every 4 turns of charging , and ofc you should start with full stamina .

also making skills have a stamina cost beside their energy cost so using skills will not totally eliminate the stamina usage that turn , yet the amount should be low so you will regain so you will always be able to use energy skills.
so there will be no scenario where someone abuse both energy and stamina in an endless loop.

i support this from begining you know

< Message edited by DarkDevil -- 12/28/2013 9:41:37 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 39
12/28/2013 11:26:41   
Remorse
Member

@ Trans,

No worries trans just thought you meant that stamina should be more like AQ.



Also I have actually no idea they even have a stamina system in other AE games.

But the whole concept is from many games in fact their is nothing ED or any of us for that matter can suggest that hasn't been done in some form or another in other games.

The main reason I am suggesting it be implanted into ED is because of resent changes constraining energy and allowing free skills to be abused without cost.

What I brought to the table however is how I think we should fit the system into ED.


@Darkdevil

I had the same opinion at first with not being able to reduce or increase it, but then when you consider it is only the regain rates being effected rather then fixed amounts being drained or gained then it is not really a big deal it will just mean people can effect how much pressure the stamina constraint will have.


I do agree that no fixed amount should effect stamina, for example an EMP/Battery version for stamina should not be allowed only have small increases to the regain rates per turn, providing balance issues don't arise.



Also if every class is to have 2 stamina skill tree moves this is what I think it should be:
Tech mage: Assim, battery
Merc: Hybrid armour, Static Smash
BH: Static grenade, Shadow arts.
CH: Static charge, Shadow arts (Note: replace plasma armor with technician)
Blood mage: Energy parasite, *New Ultimate *
TLM: Battery, Mineral armour


The shields hybrid armour, mineral armour and shadow arts would work like this:
They have 0 warm up and 0 cool down and last indefinitely or until the user runs out of stamina or deactivates it.
The turn activating the shield will cost stamina and consume a turn and every turn with the shield activated will cost stamina draining per turn, possibly making the stamina gained per turn becoming negative.

When the shield is deactivated they do not lose a turn and is done so before they continue their turn or they can wait until they run out of stamina which will deactivate the shields automatically as well as not consume their turn.




< Message edited by Remorse -- 12/28/2013 11:49:20 >
Epic  Post #: 40
12/30/2013 4:49:06   
DarkDevil
Member

i don't think bm will need a new ultimate , and the idea of ultimate being on stamina will be unfair.

stamina should be a stable amount even at using skills that should not increase by skill level so it will allow the same usage and therefore an inability of abuse.

same idea of that smoke is effective at lvl 4-5 , which is why high levels abuse it so they won't have to pay much energy , speaking of an sp skill having a stable stamina cost will fix the effeciency problem.

therefore there is no need for stamina to increase or decrease so we can keep a base when handling it instead of trying to balance it for all skills at all levels and powers.

but i do like the other ideas very well
AQ Epic  Post #: 41
12/30/2013 5:02:27   
Remorse
Member

^ Thanks,

I was just thinking since BMs dont have a good energy regain or drain that it could be stamina.

Plus it would mix things up,

Making ultimate's separate from the original 3 classes will be hard if something creative isn't done to mix things up.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 12/30/2013 5:45:40 >
Epic  Post #: 42
1/4/2014 4:32:41   
FlameBites
Member

Nice supported, good job outdoor world
Post #: 43
1/4/2014 9:47:54   
toopygoo
Member

yeah, i cant support this... There already a ton of counters on skills... the last thing we need is another way to have your skills disabled. then they'd make a core that drain SP and people would be OP and nope....

everything is expensive i agree with that. I suggest increasing base EP so people have more energy, or giving a passive energy regain each turn (25 points each turn? ) for each class. otherwise, i would say that playing as different classes, there is a certain tactic necessary to be successful with each class. Mercs are the new glass cannnons: they kamikaze. No heals, no shield, just high offense and kill before you die. This is why they are unsuccesful in 1v1, cause they dont have the options that other players do. They cannot even run cores properly, casue they cant afford skills.

another skill overhaul would be necessary to balance this energy compensation action. What i do agree with is making certain skills cost HP: mainly all buffs, and debuffs. Energy should remain at 0 costs but everyone should passively regain a little seince everything now has a price.

AQW Epic  Post #: 44
1/4/2014 9:54:59   
Remorse
Member

^
I never said they should make a way to drain SP,


What I intend for SP to be is the player controlled limiting factor,
The player themselves control how much SP will limit them and it will greatly reduce the burden on energy.


Also their is not enough counters,

Clear evidence is OP effortless strategies which cannot be countered by every class.


Every class should have access to some strategy that will allow them to win against some OP repeat mindless build.


Increasing base EP is a terrible idea because it ruins the need to invest into it in the first place and makes builds that didn't need that much to begin with much stronger.


If anything they need to lower the base energy and increase the amount stat point increase it to, 2 per stat point making it worthwhile to actually invest in.


Making cores cost stamina is actually mainly a major buff in my opinion because it means you control their limitations rather then if your drained from your energy you can't use them at all.







Edit:

@EVERYONE


I have added a list of balance issues stamina point helps to fix.

If you need further explanation of how the benefits come about feel free to ask.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 1/4/2014 10:27:27 >
Epic  Post #: 45
1/12/2014 23:06:27   
Altador987
Member

Ok sorry i got a lil busy but we're literally on the same exact page i honestly hadn't thought of certain skills (like static grenade) costing sp but i don't see a downfall to that either i agree with the armors moving as long as the cost would be lowered a little... also what do you think of sp working like reroute (or really like how it works in adventure quest) where you regain some with each round?
AQW Epic  Post #: 46
1/12/2014 23:20:51   
Mother1
Member

@ altador987

from what I read in this thread from Remorse's original post Stamina points would be doing just that rerouting itself. Personally I feel that would be for the best because if Stamina is limited and has no way of replenishing itself Once you run out of stamina and don't have enough energy for any move you are as good as dead, if both can't use anything than it will be a stale male. Warrant the duel last that long.

Epic  Post #: 47
1/13/2014 0:03:50   
Remorse
Member

Hey alt thanks for the feed back.

I intend for it to replenish by 10% of the max amount per turn.
However I also think skills can be able to infleunce the amount you gain per turn.

However I am against fixed drains or regain like a stamina emp or battery.

This mean people can only influence the amount the get per turn just so stamina is less counterable/abusable then energy but more counterable then if skills were free.

Skills that could influence stamina gain rate could include intimidate and adrenaline for example meaning they can now buff hard to buff skills.
Epic  Post #: 48
1/13/2014 0:10:11   
Altador987
Member

then we're in complete agreement as i'd thought of this a few weeks ago while i was playin aq (ikr still playin that old thing)
AQW Epic  Post #: 49
1/16/2014 4:05:19   
Goony
Constructive!


 OK, the idea itself is structurally fine and yes it could alleviate some balance issues.

The reason I haven't commented is because I am fairly certain it would take a huge amount of time for Titan to code this battle mechanic into the game. Since the Omega rewrite the dynamics of the game have been quite stable and the developers now have an almost unlimited ability to create new cores or skills.

While I can see some value of having another source of power for skills and cores that as you say can't be changed by your opponent, doesn't it then overall negate itself because everyone has stamina that regains at the same rate. Could the same effect be generated without stamina... i.e battery backup and static charge having longer cooldowns or putting a hp cost on them like static shield or by increasing overall energy.

It just seems that with another power source there is a possibility that there will be more skill and core attacks in the game as you would have 2 pools to power them from now!

Nice in theory, but it could take more time to implement than Titan or Rabblefroth could spare and the time spent building this feature could be spent on balancing the existing battle mechanics!

< Message edited by Goony -- 1/16/2014 4:07:44 >
Epic  Post #: 50
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