Hatchling Rush (Where does this affected and what is not affected.)


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Hatchling Rush (Where does this affected and what is not affected.)

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1/27/2014 14:33:56

santonik
Member

This could affect this. (Hatchling Rush)
--- Medic heal (This would be the target)
--- Mark of Blood (This would be the target)

This does not affect in any way to these (Hatchling Rush)
--- BloodCommander (back heal)
--- Armo core / s (this would help make counter-attacks 2vs2 more)
--- Super Charge (in this strike action should always heal)
--- Surgical Strike (this attack should always be kept in the heal)
--- Frenzy (this here because it only takes one round)

Epic

Post #: 1

1/27/2014 14:37:46

DarkDevil
Member

the problem isn't in what it affects but in the effect itself.

50% has been admited by everone to be OPed yet staff have not taken any steps into fixing it yet.

also bloodlust should not be excluded so either all in or all out (except heal)

< Message edited by DarkDevil -- 1/27/2014 14:39:19 >

Epic

Post #: 2

1/27/2014 14:55:25

Exploding Penguin
Moderator

I really think it should just affect field medic alone. Other forms of healing are so small anyways that it's just cruel to take away 50% from blood commander and mark of blood. And the 50% should probably get reduced to somewhere around 35-40%, this core is not at all hard to pull off with somewhat correct timing, or at least in the right place to make it ridiculously difficult for someone to survive. Really a no-skill core IMO, because it reduces the opponent's possible future moves and situations down so people can use their narrow-minded fast-kill builds without interruption.

Epic

Post #: 3

1/27/2014 14:58:13

DarkDevil
Member

there is already an 8+ pages thread about it so we don't need to reopen the discussion.

for some reason staff just don't balance it.

Epic

Post #: 4

1/27/2014 15:28:25

santonik
Member

quote:

DarkDevil@
there is already an 8+ pages thread about it so we don't need to reopen the discussion.

yes there is a thing, but not like this. (Where does this affected and what is not affected.)

quote:

for some reason staff just don't balance it.

I guess they is something to be thought about. If they make changes. So it may take time. Let's hope that there would be something interesting info.

--- Medic heal (This would be the target)
--- Mark of Blood (This would be the target)

Why i choose this 2.

because

Mark of Blood can heal a few rounds.

1 round heal (100-150 heal to mark of blood) easy 300-450 heal to streng build !!! (synergy explain something)
2 round heal (100-150 heal to mark of blood)
3 round heal (100-150 heal to mark of blood)

I would see that as a good hatchling rush is working normally this skill against the mark of blood.
we all know how good the strength builds are.

Medic heal work all builds.
Well, I suppose that many people know how this works.

Epic

Post #: 5

1/27/2014 15:31:31

Ranloth
Banned

Why should MoB be affected only because of Strength builds? Why are thinking Str builds are ones abusing it? I have a Tech BM who relies on tanking and Plasma Cannon, so I should also get a nerf because one build is strong? Synergy? Why should everyone pay for that synergy? That's not even balance.

Epic

Post #: 6

1/27/2014 15:56:27

santonik
Member

Why should MoB be affected only because of Strength builds? It affected all attacks. Heavy attack gets better benefit than not heavy attack. because damage is heal. Normally str build can is bombard every turn. others is limitation (energy, bot, cooldown ytc...)

Why are thinking Str builds are ones abusing it? There is others builds too ofcourse. example 5 focus. Basically all heavy attackers gain benefit. a different matter whether they are able to take advantage of the mark_of_blood skill.

Why should everyone pay for that synergy? It is very powerful. maybe that explain something.

That's not even balance. I dont get this now. can you tell more.

What you answer your question ^^ (i trying think normally multi ways same thing)

Main poin is here this (Where does this affected and what is not affected.)

Epic

Post #: 7

1/27/2014 16:01:02

DarkDevil
Member

you don't get it.

MOB can heal much because its only purpose is to heal.

comparing MOB to super charge or blood commander is non-sense.

therefore either all in or all out "no exceptions" (with only heal being the point)

mob to frenzy ? frenzy ignores armor and costs less , so add it too ?
mob to blood commander ? blood commander has lower cost add it too ?

you can't have exceptions.

also i am against the main point , it should affect all , but its magnitude should get a nerf as down to 30% will be good.

i guess my two posts says it all.

< Message edited by DarkDevil -- 1/27/2014 16:19:55 >

Epic

Post #: 8

1/27/2014 16:03:50

Ranloth
Banned

If Strength builds are abusing this synergy, why should I, tank BM, pay for this by having my MoB be less efficient? I rely on damage from defensive skills and try to prolong the battle as much as possible (thus tanking). How about 2v2? I may apply it for sake of my partner, who may be Support build.

That is the point of MoB. TM/TLM's beloved Battery Backup, can recharge around 60% of base Energy, at high level, for free! I have to pay Energy for my MoB, it costs me an attack - thus can result in wasting Rage - and all other effects. MoB is an offensive skill, because it relies on damage for its HP return. BB is a defensive skill, because it's inefficient with low defences; it works the same, but you can die due to losing a turn to regen your EP.

By saying "that's not even balance", I meant that penalizing everyone because of one build is not right. You should always deal with the abusers, instead of dealing with them and affecting everyone else.

For the above reasons, I was for lowering the % (from 50% to 30-33%) and make it affect all the skills it does right now. Not excluding skills because this and that, and then including ONE - it's a kick in the teeth for 2 classes which often rely on that skill (BHs and BMs).

< Message edited by Trans -- 1/27/2014 16:06:35 >

Epic

Post #: 9

1/27/2014 17:08:06

s0u1ja b0y
Member

Stop complaining and suggest changes that benefit everyone. How is 50% so op. 3 turns isn't that long. Most people have high health builds or are tanks.

Epic	Post #: 10

1/27/2014 17:09:14

GearzHeadz
Member

I'm going to assume you use that item.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 11

1/27/2014 17:29:57

Ranloth
Banned

Rage is used against tanks. Cheap EP cost. Timing it properly before healing, which is close to rage as well. Can't heal (or half as effective). Left with very little HP. Yeah... That tankiness does nothing. Thanks for pointing out how the core works, and your examples were brought up more than handful of times already - seems like you've missed the discussion in the past, which covered why your tank example means absolutely nothing.

We are just as entitled to our own opinion, as you are, s0u1ja b0y. We're not complaining, put posting some constructive feedback. It's rather rude to tell someone to stay quiet, when the Forum exists for this very reason - to discuss different matters.

Epic

Post #: 12

1/27/2014 17:41:01

DarkDevil
Member

@s0u1ja b0y

quote:

Most people have high health builds or are tanks.

a philosophic argument is based on stating questions and answers to show different points.

on the point ,
what if i am not a high hp str build ?
why should this core be OPed on tanks because none use them ?
why does none use them ?

at least the answer for the last one is because of the core that has caused unbalance and is destroying tank builds , and has changed from a core to a can opener , always keep in mind we are arguing upon a core so it shouldn't be a game changer.
and being one is enough reason of a nerf.

i have said this before which is why i have pointed in previous posts that we have an 8+ pages thread with this so reopening it is of no use , we are just repeatedly repeating ourselves.

< Message edited by DarkDevil -- 1/27/2014 17:46:33 >

Epic

Post #: 13

1/27/2014 17:52:54

lionblades
Member

50% for 3 turns on FM isn't the OP part

Only OP part is that it affects more than just Field Medic. Fix by making MoB, Frenzy, Generator, everything other than FM unaffected.

AND Str abusers are not the only users of this core. I have seen TM casters abuse this by either right before rage plasma or before supercharge.

< Message edited by lionblades -- 1/27/2014 17:53:09 >

AQW	Post #: 14

1/27/2014 20:51:40

Exploding Penguin
Moderator

quote:

Stop complaining and suggest changes that benefit everyone. How is 50% so op. 3 turns isn't that long. Most people have high health builds or are tanks.

A strength build, which is what almost everyone uses, can output on rough estimate 500 damage in 3 strikes against a decent semi-tanky focus build. That's pretty much half the max health of any high-tank build. Of course it doesn't matter since everyone went to high HP builds to counter the existence of a single item. Rather than 6 classes and multiple skills changing for this single arguably OP core to balance things out, why don't we just change the source and get the problem over with? I mean, 1v1 is so boring not because I'm a level 35 constantly fighting level 40s, but because all those level 39 and 40s use the exactly same build. It's like back when massacre BH was 70% of the 1v1 population. And you knew from the start what exact moves the opponent was gonna use. And you couldn't do anything about it cause you knew you're screwed over.

Epic	Post #: 15

1/27/2014 21:00:10

s0u1ja b0y
Member

@Trans @Dark Devil
I don't use the item. The feedback though was only bringing into account a small group. You have to think about the changes as they would affect all lvls. The
core should only affect field medic or maybe the other way around

Epic	Post #: 16

1/28/2014 3:20:35

DarkDevil
Member

no , the staff didn't do it that way cus it isn't intended that way.

it is a core that reduces all healing , just unbalanced magnitude.

Epic

Post #: 17

1/29/2014 22:01:37

Darkforce832
Member

Hatchling Rush Should probably be lowered in the amount of turns it effects a player or lower the % of hp regain it takes from the player.
Also it should only affect Field Medic, and Field Medic only.

Post #: 18

1/30/2014 0:13:36

Exploding Penguin
Moderator

Is there even a viable, universal counter to hatchling rush? Armored roots and hybrid armor are the only I can think of, and armored roots is pretty useless, not to mention it's a promo that few people have. Hybrid armor is also only available on mercs, although it's without a doubt a solid counter to hatchling rush.

IMO they should make a new robot that can be purchased with credits, or something of the like that can counter this core because everything else has a universal viable counter so far.

Epic	Post #: 19

1/30/2014 10:13:27

Xendran
Member

-Redacted-

< Message edited by Xendran -- 1/30/2014 15:58:48 >

Epic

Post #: 20

1/30/2014 15:52:52

dfo99
Member

this changes not will benefit all classes, so will make the game unballanced.

not suported

Post #: 21

1/30/2014 16:54:45

Synner
Member

Nerf this nerf that

Post #: 22

1/30/2014 17:05:20

Xendran
Member

Hatchling rush DOES need to be nerfed. Just because things get nerfed a lot does not mean you can use it as a valid excuse to not nerf something that does need it.
A core that is better than every other core is too extreme.

Epic

Post #: 23

2/2/2014 0:50:49

Jekyll
Member

When I enter a 2v2 battle and see everyone using the Hatchling weapon except me, I wonder if I'm the intelligent one or the foolish one.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 24

2/2/2014 0:57:57

Noobatron x3000
Member

^ Your just refusing to except the devs breaking something hoping it will distract everyone from everything else whilst there exploiting the deliberate break is all.
Quite clever really because if everybody's using the core deliberately so broken it distracts you from all the many other issues of the game . 1) your not paying attention to the other issues as much 2) your not benifiting as much as you think you are because everyones exploiting the deliberately broken core.

Post #: 25

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