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2/9/2014 16:08:02   
SummerTime
Banned


 I don't understand why level cap players go so try hard as if they still have something prove? Why not kickback and relax? Have some fun, experiment with builds? Level cap players are using the same builds they used 5 levels ago! How can you play this game using the same build/routine
24/7?

They are at the top of the food chain! They have the best gear, most stats, most skills points, yet they continue to slave away as if fun doesn't exist in their minds?

Idk why I made this post but it just really annoys me. This game isn't fun because the game itself isn't fun, it's not fun because the players themselves don't ever take a break from their "Must copy best build then battle nonstop to get higher rank and then people will respect and fear me" mindset.

Anyone see what I'm trying to say and agree?

Title changed to create a more positive environment. ~ Zan

< Message edited by ZanpakuTô -- 2/9/2014 16:52:49 >
Epic  Post #: 1
2/9/2014 16:10:50   
Ranloth
Banned


 Winning for some is fun, as opposed to being creative. Whilst you want to be creative, they want to win - why shouldn't they force you to be like them? It's their choice to use builds they've used before - for sake of wins - whilst you choose to be creative.

You cannot change it, nor anyone else. Your choice and their choice. There's nothing wrong with it.
AQ Epic  Post #: 2
2/9/2014 16:13:00   
Mother1
Member

While they can't level up anymore, they can still rank up so while they are on the top level wise they can still get more power so they keep going.

In other words hardcore players will not be getting bored anytime soon while casual players have to take the beatings unless they get lucky and win, or have a counter build which helps them win.
Epic  Post #: 3
2/9/2014 16:16:59   
SummerTime
Banned


 Yeah I came off a bit aggressive, sorry about that. I don't players to stop trying to win because winning is fun for everyone, but there have to be other builds besides the same str+hp builds and 5 focus builds that everyone thinks they must use...
Epic  Post #: 4
2/9/2014 16:19:47   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator
quote:

Idk why I made this post but it just really annoys me.


I don't know either.

It doesn't really annoy me. It just kind of makes me lose some faith in humanity because apparently a lot of people think winning is everything. To them winning is fun. To them winning is ego. The list goes on. I can't necessarily agree that winning is fun, otherwise I'd just abuse all the high-win rate builds in the past and get a ridiculous win ratio, but that's no fun. It's far more entertaining to do it with your own build that not many people know of, if any at all. Winning can be fun to a degree for everyone, it's just that too many people obsess over it.
Epic  Post #: 5
2/9/2014 19:03:54   
Noobatron x3000
Member

Irony is the level cap players are hurting them selves that's where most of the build copying is . And the end of the game where people play less actively/ for shorter periods of times

Its not just a coincidence they'll figure it out. And maybe they'll stop. Or they'll get sick of seeing the same build over and over and class hopping everytime it changes and just leave.

Either way doesn't end well for them unless they get out of the hole they have got themselves into.
Post #: 6
2/9/2014 20:27:58   
edwardvulture
Member

Before they nerfed everything, being creative was a competetive advntage. Most people cannot be creative and make an effective build. Being creative now means nothing because the OP builds are already out there.

< Message edited by edwardvulture -- 2/9/2014 20:29:10 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 7
2/9/2014 21:52:56   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 ^This is partially because win ratios disappeared. People are now even more encouraged just to use the builds that go through fights fast.

I don't actually understand this logic since I think that battles which last 15-25 turns with an 80-90% win rate or higher grant you faster wins than fights which are 10-15 turns and only grant you maybe a 65% win rate or so.
Epic  Post #: 8
2/9/2014 22:14:54   
Pemberton
Member
 

 In beta, level cap players actually helped the lower levels by letting them win to level up.
Now in omega, level cap players are 100% class jumpers and build copiers.
Post #: 9
2/9/2014 22:19:30   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Lol. I almost forgot entirely about those people who were like "let me win pl0x."

I never gave them the win. I suffered through the same pain they did, and back then if you were skilled enough you could take down those level cap players who just build copied (*cough* BH Massacre *cough*) even if you were 5 levels below anyways. Also just asking for wins kind of gets on my nerves, because I get pretty annoyed if even a level 39 or 40 takes it easy on me just cause I'm only a level 35. People should respect that challenge and accept it so that they can improve themselves.
Epic  Post #: 10
2/9/2014 23:19:55   
Pemberton
Member
 

 ^ I never said "let me win pl0x"
Higher levels in beta were just kind enough to care about low levels so they can have fun too and sometimes let me win.
You assume too much.
Post #: 11
2/9/2014 23:23:20   
Mother1
Member

@Pemberton

They used to ask that in delta as well from what I remember. Sometimes if I was feeling nice I would do the same for lower levels back then. Especially if it was during power hour.

But now in omega we don't see that anymore. All I saw was "How is this a far fight" or "For the love of god how about giving me a fair fight." and things like that.
Epic  Post #: 12
2/9/2014 23:31:57   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 @Pemberton: I never said you said that. I was just recalling how some players said that to me.

quote:

Higher levels in beta were just kind enough to care about low levels so they can have fun too


I don't really have a right to judge and then say something about it, but it's very possible to have fun even if you lose a large portion of your fights. The reason I didn't give out free wins like that to anyone, not even my friends, is because I believe that by doing so you set the person up for a bad lesson in terms of morals. I'm not saying I have the right to teach them either, I just think giving them free wins tells them that everything in life is easy and people's hard work shouldn't even be disrespected to the point that people just ask for free wins. Free wins are a ticket out of the hard work that other players suffered through. It's pretty much just botting to level up quickly, except with the consent of your opponent. Players who offer to give you free wins without you asking is better, but I still personally don't support such actions. But those are just my opinions and I'm sure you don't care about it.

quote:

All I saw was "How is this a far fight" or "For the love of god how about giving me a fair fight." and things like that.


This is very true. At least this is better than the more-annoying pleads to let people win.
Epic  Post #: 13
2/10/2014 5:38:41   
DarkDevil
Member

quote:

Its not just a coincidence they'll figure it out. And maybe they'll stop. Or they'll get sick of seeing the same build over and over and class hopping everytime it changes and just leave.


more wins = more power = more win = more power in an endless loop.

so they will never stop as long as they are gaining power , this is something to be blaimed on the legendary system that caused even the top leveled players to become immortal.

i think this is a cheap way of dealing with things , make top leveled immortals then restrict others from fighting them so they tare each other apart , and eventually one will rise to the top and become the undisputed king.

this is what we are in , if you to let people fight to become the undisputed king they will just all turn into savages and only seek winning because everyone is seeking that place.

< Message edited by DarkDevil -- 2/10/2014 5:41:18 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 14
2/10/2014 11:09:08   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 ^I really can't agree more now that you pointed it out.

They pretty much buffed the level cap from 35 to 140, except once you reach level 40 you get humongous diminishing returns. And a level 140 can face a level 38.
Epic  Post #: 15
2/10/2014 11:37:57   
edwardvulture
Member

Removing win ratios only encouraged diversity. I think they need to re-work rage so that support and strength stands on even ground in terms of usefulness. Unless you didn't know, the full extent of my suggestion had a lot more provisions.

Anyways, I don't think the legendary system was well-thought out. It was a huge blow to casual players. I also feel like people who had well over the wins needed to be in several or a lot ledgendary ranks were essentially ripped off. Legendary status shouldn't have been more than an evolving achievement and access to exclusive cores/gear.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 16
2/10/2014 12:04:12   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 I would disagree. Removing win ratios removed people's care about losing even more, which now promotes the faster win builds. People see these fast win builds and copy them.
Epic  Post #: 17
2/10/2014 12:28:32   
Noobatron x3000
Member

@exploding I see your point however I believe removing losses was smart along with ratios on the lb . Ratios make it harder for the copy cats to look at the lb and copy the quick kill builds with a moderate win %. And removing losses yes it helps the quick kill builds but it helps the ones who don't use some one else's pvp knowledge by copying to feel less punished for not being a copy cat.
Post #: 18
2/10/2014 12:41:45   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 IMO build copying was never a problem to begin with, except for the kinds of builds that can be used by even the most mindless people. That's why the strength TM is super common right now. It gets a decent (not great at all, I would never go for a build with this kind of win ratio myself) win ratio, very fast fights, and it's ultimately extremely simple. BH is very similar too. I don't even see people use static grenade anymore except for the smart BHs. All I see are smoke, strike, MoB for the most part.

But if you build copy a focus build it's not like you can use it as well as the person whom you copied it from. Caster is also trickier to use, but still has some ease in it.
Epic  Post #: 19
2/10/2014 12:50:16   
Noobatron x3000
Member

^ I disagree with caster being easy to use. SImple to use perhaps but not well. Its difficult to use a caster with a decent win % because of the many weaknesses / counters the build has. I'm currently using a l24 caster relatively successful . 90% in 1v1 around 75% in 2v2. Seen a lot of people using caster completely "clueless" though
Post #: 20
2/10/2014 15:27:38   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Caster is fairly easy to use because of the concentrated damage it can deal. You just use battery backup when you can, and drain energy when you could use it or you don't want your opponent to have it. Then you use your caster skills until they die. The only skill in using caster is making the build itself, and timing assimilation right. All builds have weaknesses, not just caster, and they all have to deal with them. I'd like to see someone who plays copied a caster build or a strength build play TLM or BM, because those 2 classes only win fights by gradual chip damage rather than just heavily concentrated damage sustained over multiple turns.
Epic  Post #: 21
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