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Blood mage replacement or New skills for a better Balance

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2/15/2014 4:47:27   
Helgastian
Member
 

 Hello, My name is Helgastian, recently I have been hearing Blood mage players complain that their class is "Underpowered" and I agree as I am also a Blood mage. I suggest replacing the Blood mage class. Creating a new class. Every Blood mage player with change into that class.

My other suggestion is keeping the Blood mage but just making a change in skills. The New skills do not work with a blood mage. Maybe Making some new skills would really balance blood mages with other classes.

Thank you for reading.
Post #: 1
2/15/2014 6:09:11   
Drianx
Member

You don't really expect anyone to take you seriously, do you?
AQW Epic  Post #: 2
2/15/2014 6:22:16   
Ranloth
Banned


 Make new skills, replace the whole class with a new one, etc. Anyone can say that, but how about suggesting some skills?

Otherwise, as above.
AQ Epic  Post #: 3
2/15/2014 9:28:55   
Jacob [Back to ED]
Member

I would greatly appreciate a new replacement for the Parasite skill. Something like assimilation as in Tech Mage. Cause the class is really underpowered because he lost his original skills: Deadly Aim and Blood Lust.

If that doesn't work, you should then increase the amount of energy that the Parasite absorbs from the enemy.
Epic  Post #: 4
2/15/2014 18:42:59   
lionblades
Member

^100% agreed.
AQW  Post #: 5
2/16/2014 4:33:26   
Helgastian
Member
 

 I'm just making a suggestion so Bm players don't have to lose all the time.
Post #: 6
2/16/2014 6:04:25   
Ranloth
Banned


 Suggestion that is a complaint. If you want new skills, suggest them. You've not even stated where in particular, BMs are underpowered - isn't it easier to buff said skills instead, or replace one or two - instead of whole class for no reason or whatsoever?
AQ Epic  Post #: 7
2/16/2014 12:48:02   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator
quote:

I'm just making a suggestion so Bm players don't have to lose all the time.


Not all BM players lose all the time. There are some out there who have a pretty decent win rate.
Epic  Post #: 8
2/16/2014 12:55:23   
lionblades
Member

^What do you mean by pretty decent? 80%? Because as a BM I had a 80%ish ratio at 37 a few days back because I mostly fought newbies who didn't have a real good strategy. BUT at lv38 its a huge game-changer. All the lv40 TM, BH, and CH are
insane. Parasite doesn't help because energy stealers like TM assimilation are incredible at draining energy at 1 TURN. Parasite is 3 turns gradual drain. Too many players know how to counter Parasite very effectively (so you only get around 100 max
energy). Parasite needs to be less easier to be countered (suggested a while back).
AQW  Post #: 9
2/16/2014 13:45:51   
ED Divine Darkness
Member

it would be easy to balance it IMO.

parasite is the problem.

easy fix:

reduce req to 30 at max, and rework it.

remove the gain 150% gain from drain. it will be based off maximum energy and add this bonus:

you drain and gain an additional 30% of the target's missing energy. so say they are missing 300 energy and their max energy is 650, you drain/gain 97.5 energy and an additional 90 energy. this would apply for 3 turns, but change every turn according to the target's energy.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 10
2/16/2014 18:49:32   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator
quote:

^What do you mean by pretty decent? 80%? Because as a BM I had a 80%ish ratio at 37 a few days back because I mostly fought newbies who didn't have a real good strategy. BUT at lv38 its a huge game-changer. All the lv40 TM, BH, and CH are


but this isn't caused by BM being weak. This is because of a 2 level difference and legendary ranks combined, and it makes it look like BM is weak due to the class's lack of popularity. BM does have its weaknesses, but so do every other class.

And 80% is actually fairly good. If you want 90% win rates then you're getting to the kind of win rates that caused a lot of balance-induced rage from previous phases due to clearly visible OP skills/builds. Very few people can attain 90% win rates consistently.
Epic  Post #: 11
2/16/2014 19:06:07   
lionblades
Member

^80% was when I was lv37. Now I am struggling to get 50-60% in 1vs1 lv 38 just due to the sheer number of players that can counter Parasite so easily and have superior energy gains. I find that as a BM its either kill as fast as you can with hatchling str or get killed. Its impossible to out tank any class. Levels do play a role but class is more important at endgame.
AQW  Post #: 12
2/16/2014 19:35:54   
s0u1ja b0y
Member

BMS will always be underpowered even though they could easily be made better. If assimilation and energy parasite were switched, bms would be a balanced class. The skill tree is pretty good EXCEPT for parasite
Epic  Post #: 13
2/17/2014 0:08:37   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 ^Energy parasite is arguably going to make TM even more ridiculous. The energy recovery that energy parasite provides is typically much higher than even max static charge, and when used in the right place can grant 150+ energy. Given batter backup's energy return, TM focus that runs supercharge/max plasma bolt and/or a very high field medic would never run out of energy, while also having malf as a good debuff move coupled with strong defensive buffs.
Epic  Post #: 14
2/17/2014 21:05:28   
Xendran
Member

Parasite sucks because the blood mage skill tree is just a garbage version of tech mage.

E Shield instead of Def Matrix, Reflex instead of Technician. What's the problem?
You may think none since reflex replaces the dex you lose when smoked, which you would think would be a good benefit.

Nope. Because it, along with intimidate, scale with support.
Intimidate is also garbage in general.
Blood Mage has no method of dealing damage with support, but is also NOT an ubertank because of the scaling defensive options, because you HAVE to sacrifice other stats to get that support. Why do i want to lower their damage by 20 when i can raise my def/res by 20 and also get block/deflect?

Not only this, but look at the tree on blood mage.
Notice something?
It's more expensive energy wise to play this class than it is to play a mage. MORE. Blood Mage burns through EP more than Tech Mage. So much so that as a mage with extra energy, i actually have to TRY to burn off all my energy against blood mages at times.
Mark of Blood + Bludgeon at level 8 and 6 respectively is already 2/3 of your energy gone as a blood mage, but energy parasite also has some hidden damage penalty i believe, so if you use it second turn you're gimping your mark of blood.

You could try to save your mark of blood for later but youll just get EP drained and your opponent will be recovering amounts of energy that will leave them with still plenty of energy to burn if you parasite them later. That also means the match has to last a certain length. 6 turns is a whole battle sometimes, and if you give up two of those turns dealing bad damage, some of which is penalizing your mark of blood, it just gets worse.

Their dex caster is MASSIVELY inferior to the tech mage version, because not only does it cost MORE energy to use the skill tree effectively, but they get back not even remotely close the amount a tech mage will recover over the course of a battle. They also do not have Technician scaling with dex to help with resistance and deflections, and energy shield scales with support.

Plasma Cannon (and bunker buster) as a standalone skill is crazy overpowered, but when combined with the garbage Blood Mage tree you get a mediocre skill. Mainly useful in 2v2 because it means they can at least do some damage before they get destroyed.

Also, intimidate, again, is garbage. Why exactly does the blood mage need FIVE defensive skills?

"Blood Mages are the more aggressive and violent version of the Tech Mage."

I wasn't aware that being more violent meant having 41.6% of your skills as defensive.


Now, combine this all with the fact that your energy draining potential is so low that you can't prevent most things from hitting you right in the face, or getting heal looped.
Even if tech mage had battery backup and no skill was added to replace it, it would still be better than blood mage. Assimilate on its own is better than parasite, because even when you can't gain enough energy to use, you have a guaranteed way to drain a substantial portion of your opponent's energy immediately after they restore it. Most people backup the turn before their heal is off cooldown, or if they can rage bludgeon or something, so you aren't gonna get three turns of 15%.


None of these negative synergies were actually thought about when they removed bloodlust and DA.

Here is an example of a well-designed version of the Blood Mage: http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=21587801

< Message edited by Xendran -- 2/17/2014 21:10:34 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 15
2/17/2014 23:37:12   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator
quote:

Intimidate is also garbage in general.


My build would argue otherwise. Intimidate works very well right now because strength is so popular and thus is applicable in 90% of my fights. Don't forget it actually reduces rage the enemy gets while reducing damage you take from certain skills, making it better than it seems at first glance.

But I will have to agree that the skill tree is similar in way too many aspects. BM has mark of blood but no debuffs and barely any hard-hitting moves to stack with it, so it really doesn't help too much. That's why I only run level 2 mark of blood, for those clutch moments when you just need that extra 50 health.
Epic  Post #: 16
2/17/2014 23:50:26   
Xendran
Member

quote:


My build would argue otherwise. Intimidate works very well right now because strength is so popular and thus is applicable in 90% of my fights. Don't forget it actually reduces rage the enemy gets while reducing damage you take from certain skills, making it better than it seems at first glance.


Compared to the other blood mage options you have available on that turn, yes intimidate would be good. As a whole, though, it is woefully niche.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 17
2/18/2014 20:46:54   
s0u1ja b0y
Member

150 energy! The most I've seen is 70. BMS are not garbage. Its all about the build. Bms isn't like the other classes where you just max out 1 skill and max out the energy gainer/drainer. Bms are underpowered, but can achieve decent win rates with the right build.

Side note: whatever class is underpowered, tends to be used a lot at lower lvls.
Epic  Post #: 18
2/18/2014 22:00:00   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 ^But from personal experience a level 10 parasite helps so much more than a level 8. You do have to be more careful with your strategy and maybe your build, but there isn't too much of a difference between BM and TM buildmaking.
Epic  Post #: 19
2/19/2014 0:17:30   
s0u1ja b0y
Member

Yeh, but people shy away from strategy.
Epic  Post #: 20
2/19/2014 3:15:13   
Xendran
Member

Not sure how my giant wall of text with factual negative synergies that make the class factually worse than tech mage got ignored.
Sure, you might not find the class garbage, but that doesn't mean you can call it balanced.

Also, 2v2 with blood mage is just roflol.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 21
2/21/2014 6:41:21   
noremako
Member

Give Blood Mage Assimilate?

Do you know what that entails?

At a max, high strength level, Blood Mage can gain 100 energy every three rounds. The fact that it deals a small amount of damage doesn't help.

Honestly, I hate Energy drain. It has become a worse problem then Passives, and receives far more attention and need.
Post #: 22
2/21/2014 17:11:27   
NDB
Member

Blood Mages in the lower levels are laughable. Tech Mage is superior to them in almost every, if not every way possible, depending on the build. Blood Mage Dex casters, probably the most commonly seen up until the high 20s is literally a Tech Mage without Battery Backup and Assimilation. They simply don't have enough skill points to get Energy Parasite, which is already horrible in comparison to Battery Backup, which is effective even at level 1. In addition, Reflex Boost and Energy Shield are pathetic in comparison to the Defense Matrix and Technician, which improves with Dexterity, especially because Reflex Boost is a level 10 skill.

Blood Mage strength builds most powerful attack is Bludgeon, which a Tech Mage also has. And than, again, you have all the other skills-Assimilation, Battery Backup, even Malfunction.

This is almost excactly like when Tactical Mercenary first came out in Delta; it was practically superior to Mercenary in every way, especially support, which dominated 2vs2 at the time.
Epic  Post #: 23
2/22/2014 1:26:33   
s0u1ja b0y
Member

They could rearrange skill tree and remove support requirement of parasite. Isn't parasite only energy skill with a requirement? Make it improve with tech or Dex so it can be abused just like all other energy smiles are.
Epic  Post #: 24
2/22/2014 22:12:59   
noremako
Member

Energy Parasite? Hmm, I have a potentially more effective skill in consideration.

Mark of Blood is not abusable. It is not overpowered, although it generally is at low levels because of its proximity to the beginning of the Skill Tree.

Also, everyone has low health at low levels and everyone can hit really high. Thus, MoB is only really overpowered at low levels.

How about an Energy Parasite that does the same thing?

I wouldn't say this is abusable at all. Since you only obtain it at level 10 and even then its a level 1 version, its difficult to go crazy with an MoB EP.

You hit for some damage. You drain at level 1, 15% energy. So you get around 20 energy or so on a good hit.

You get this effect for 3 rounds including that round you just played.

Max level is 30% drain. I wouldn't say this is overpowered.

The decay is

Up to Level 7: 2% per level
Level 8-10: 1% per level

I wouldn't consider this overpowered. At level 25, with a strong damage skill you could deal 400 damage. Even with a maxed EP, you drain 120 and you also lose your skill Energy.

At high levels, skills are neglectable in terms of whether they should be maxed, especially for Blood Mage.

However, if people are really that worried about spamming strong skills and draining high numbers, then Skill drain can be halved.

Or something like that, what do you think?
Post #: 25
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