Something had to be done with dex builds !!


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2/23/2014 22:46:57

coolboyelazizy
Member

Like the title says u should do something about dex builds.

U may make overload and stun grenade improve with support or u may make them scale slowly with dex.

I'm sure the members have good thoughts about this more than me.

< Message edited by coolboyelazizy -- 2/23/2014 22:47:21 >

AQW

Epic

Post #: 1

2/23/2014 23:02:24

vordalthe2nd
Member

Truthfully, nothing needs to be done with the dex builds. This game is challenging but there are ways to beat all sorts of builds. Currently I have a build that can beat them easily. Trying new builds will help, especially when your current build is failing.

Post #: 2

2/23/2014 23:09:36

Exploding Penguin
Moderator

It's just that health increase is broken right now and TM can regain energy infinitely unlike before where energy regain was based off of their HP.

Aside from that, there's nothing particularly outstanding with dex builds. Damage doesn't even scale that fast with dex on the skills you mentioned if you think about it.

Epic

Post #: 3

2/23/2014 23:51:29

coolboyelazizy
Member

The thing is i actually see people with +120 Dex which make it impossible for me to defeat cuz every time i hit they block and if i have a E gun or aux they use Technician which improves with Dex So He suddenly in a god mode and finally he used assi then i take it back and they battery and BOOM killed by rage overload.

< Message edited by coolboyelazizy -- 2/23/2014 23:52:03 >

AQW

Epic

Post #: 4

2/24/2014 0:00:59

NDB
Member

Dex Caster Tech Mages is undoubtedly the most powerful build in up until about level 25. Even afterwards it's still quite effective. The main problem is Battery, but nothing can really be done about that.

Epic

Post #: 5

2/24/2014 0:08:57

Mother1
Member

@NDB

I play with my lower level alt, and I see dex casters in every 9/10 battles.

However here is a solution that will never go through.

Give TM back the passive reroute. if this was done dex casters would no longer be a problem because energy flow would be depending on the damage they take.

To be honest Battery backup when they thought it out favored tank builds rather than all builds which is why casters became overpowered when they changed reroute to Battery.

Epic

Post #: 6

2/24/2014 0:10:50

NDB
Member

Maybe Battery Backup should return energy based on a percentage of your current health.

Epic

Post #: 7

2/24/2014 0:17:07

s0u1ja b0y
Member

They will never bring back reroute, even though they should. Whats so OP about them is you can't beat them when they're more than 2 or 3 lvls higher than you(same lvl sometimes) even if they only have primary upgraded and nothing else. They need to change overload where you can't stun without having x amount of support or if your support is lower than your opponents. Its ridiculous how support plays no role in stuns.

Epic

Post #: 8

2/24/2014 0:20:11

NDB
Member

Actually, it does. And stuns are not really the main problem.

Epic

Post #: 9

2/24/2014 0:23:47

Mother1
Member

NDB is right.

Even without stun the damage you get from a stun move at low levels is almost half your bar unless you have good resistance. Most battles at low levels are done within 2-3 turns because of this.

At higher levels I can fight and beat dex builds since my main uses a build that doesn't depend on melee's but at lower levels Dex caster, and Dex BH are extremely powerful. Dex caster being the stronger since their energy source doesn't depend on their enemy's energy.

Epic	Post #: 10

2/24/2014 1:51:40

edwardvulture
Member

Dex TM? because spamming dex is infeffective for alll the other classes.

Post #: 11

2/24/2014 1:57:20

omixxx
Member

I do not support this

Epic	Post #: 12

2/24/2014 20:11:01

s0u1ja b0y
Member

At higher lvls its easier ans an easy win, but at low lvls the stun causes the kill. If they don't stun you heal and there pretty much done. The way stuns are affected by support is useless. Unless your higher lvl, there's no way to use this to your advantage.

Epic	Post #: 13

2/24/2014 21:23:20

NDB
Member

^True, if they go first and stun your'e dead unless their rain doesn't kill you. But after healing, they still have quite and advantage with Battery, Assimilation, and Generator; you are nowhere close to done unless your really are superior (most cases, higher level). In my experience Mercenary and Blood Mages stand almost absolutely no chance. Don't remember that last time I lost to one with my alts in a couple hundred battles. Strength BH stands a decent chance if they don't get block, and focus BH can win sometimes (usually when Static Grenade drains a greater amount than Battery returns, and they have something like IA). TLM and CH are an occasional encounter, so it can be hard to say sometimes. However they too, don't appear to have a major counter build. The greatest threat is fighting another Dex Caster of equal or greater standing.

They are truly the most powerful force in the teen to low 20s. Though the original post seems more of a complaint, it is an issue that does need to be addressed. And, because I am confident that the devs are most definitely aware the TM is at least slightly OP, there's no point in making any more of these kinds of threads because they are already coming up with something.

Epic	Post #: 14

2/24/2014 21:24:03

Exploding Penguin
Moderator

quote:

The thing is i actually see people with +120 Dex which make it impossible for me to defeat cuz every time i hit they block and if i have a E gun or aux they use Technician which improves with Dex So He suddenly in a god mode and finally he used assi then i take it back and they battery and BOOM killed by rage overload.

Dex isn't the problem at all then... it's battery backup.

Epic	Post #: 15

2/24/2014 21:52:28

lionblades
Member

actually, CH beats dex mages almost all the time. Poison + Max massacre, or just poison str abuse. Add hatchling and its extremely hard to beat

AQW	Post #: 16

2/24/2014 21:55:15

s0u1ja b0y
Member

There are many builds that can beat Dex tm, however most cannot be achieved before lvl 15 effectively.

Epic	Post #: 17

2/24/2014 21:56:02

lionblades
Member

Thats true. Dex TM only really works well in lower lvls (most of lb are tm dex) not very effective high lvl

AQW	Post #: 18

2/24/2014 21:59:13

s0u1ja b0y
Member

It works well until lvl 25ish, when people can really put points into energy drainers.

Epic	Post #: 19

2/24/2014 22:07:08

Mother1
Member

Actually I have seen lower level builds that counter dex TM.

Tech caster TM is one of them. While both use energy attacks, a dex TM majority of the time has low resist where as a Tech caster has high resist. So if these two were going against each other the dex mage would be getting medium damage at best where as the Tech caster would be getting high damage due to low resistance.

Mid level Tactical merc's with poison also work well since even at that level the poison they use can deal damage to the dex caster while ignoring their high dex.

In other words go for decent damage build with decent resistance and you can win.

Epic	Post #: 20

2/24/2014 23:48:33

s0u1ja b0y
Member

How effective are those builds against others,though?

Epic	Post #: 21

2/25/2014 4:40:36

kosmo
Member

even if dex caster mage isn't a problem at all, i agree whit the title of the threed.

dex is op, and it is for evry class, if compared to other stats it gives the biggest advange, and if combined whit ninja reflex and luky strike it will guarant an inbalanced battle.

bloks cant be avoided easely (expecially blokable skills), that s why they shoudnt be gamechanging ad have such a big impact on the battle.

< Message edited by kosmo -- 2/25/2014 4:55:16 >

Epic	Post #: 22

2/25/2014 8:30:14

Amkatar
Member

Dex casters arent really a problem... just invest a bit in hp to survive the first burst, then use energy damage, and drain their energy when they use battery backup...
As a 3 focus BH (level 20 atm) they are easy to kill if they are not 3+ lvls higher, even though it may take 10+ turns.

Still, independently of scaling, overload IS an OP skill, compare to BH grenade (same chance to stun, way more damage) or to plasma bolt (more damage, less energy to cast, and chance to stun).

< Message edited by Amkatar -- 2/25/2014 8:34:23 >

Post #: 23

2/25/2014 9:19:46

Ranloth
Banned

quote:

Still, independently of scaling, overload IS an OP skill, compare to BH grenade (same chance to stun, way more damage) or to plasma bolt (more damage, less energy to cast, and chance to stun).

1) Wrong. This issue has been around for a while, and actually, Grenades have always been underpowered - compared to Overload. No matter what nerfs and buffs Overload has had, the Grenades were always behind by a fair amount. Buffing Plasma/Stun Grenade is, by far, a better solution - not because buffing > nerfing, but the single fact the Grenades are almost useless for BHs and CHs alike; only mid-level builds can take advantage of Stun Grenade (BH).
2) After recent nerf to Plasma Bolt, Overload had indirect buff. It wasn't as powerful before PB's nerf, but now it is. Again, read the above. Go ahead and nerf Overload slightly (damage-wise), but - at the same time - buff the Grenades as well.

Although, mind you, nerfing Overload means BMs get affected. It's already unusable for us, due to the poor state of Energy Parasite, and just being unable to use it more than once or twice, really, without being just awful in terms of weapon damage.

< Message edited by Trans -- 2/25/2014 9:25:37 >

Epic

Post #: 24

2/25/2014 11:04:25

Amkatar
Member

quote:

1) Wrong. This issue has been around for a while, and actually, Grenades have always been underpowered - compared to Overload. No matter what nerfs and buffs Overload has had, the Grenades were always behind by a fair amount. Buffing Plasma/Stun Grenade is, by far, a better solution - not because buffing > nerfing, but the single fact the Grenades are almost useless for BHs and CHs alike; only mid-level builds can take advantage of Stun Grenade (BH).
2) After recent nerf to Plasma Bolt, Overload had indirect buff. It wasn't as powerful before PB's nerf, but now it is. Again, read the above. Go ahead and nerf Overload slightly (damage-wise), but - at the same time - buff the Grenades as well.

Although, mind you, nerfing Overload means BMs get affected. It's already unusable for us, due to the poor state of Energy Parasite, and just being unable to use it more than once or twice, really, without being just awful in terms of weapon damage.

While I agree PB and SG definitely need a boost, still I do think overload is on par with skills like bunker buster, while costing less energy. A solution would be to swap plasma bolt and overload energy costs, plus boosting stun grenade damage scaling to +20 (instead of +10) at higher levels. That leaves us with BMs nerfed, but the problem is not the BMs, its the skill. Balance is to be achieved on skills that belong to a specific class, not on shared skills.

< Message edited by Amkatar -- 2/25/2014 11:07:34 >

Post #: 25

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