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Patching up Faction abuse

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2/26/2014 17:49:05   
Ranloth
Banned


 I've posted this earlier, but it was in GD and the thread got deleted. But I can repost it here and put a bit more detail in.

Having alts in your faction is against the rules, as long as it's reported of course. If no one noticed, no one will end up being punished. Quite a flaw in how the rules work and almost nothing to prevent it, apart from reports which may be sent too late and/or being claimed fake - after all, screenshots can be altered and such.

So let's have a fix to prevent this abuse, yaaaay!

The fix is... locking the player's account out from joining the same faction again, for 24 hours after leaving it. Whole account, not the character who was in the faction. Why do that? So you won't be able to leave with your main, join with your alt and avoid being punished due to the massive loophole in the rules. Furthermore, you can NOT have more than one character in the same faction - the game wouldn't allow you to add your alt into the same faction as your main is.

Just to simplify it:
  • Player A and Player B are the same person, on the same account.
  • Player A is in Faction X, and decides to leave.
  • Player B wants to join the Faction X, to give advantage to the faction - i.e. lower level, which grants faster Influence (shorter fights).
  • Player B is unable to join Faction X, because Player A - who is the same person, on the same account - has left it earlier.
  • Player A is also unable to join the Faction X, for the next 24 hours, to prevent having alts in the faction.

    It isn't a perfect fix, because players would be able to change their IP and create different account, and still join the same Faction. But this would be dealt in a completely different way.

    At least the stress of having alts abuse Dailies would be gone - not completely but partially. Mods could have more time trying to catch those who would abuse it in a different way - through multiple accounts only, which is also against the rules - instead of having to focus on each and individual character in-game, regardless of whether they are on the same account or not.

    IP can be checked on individual basis, and they can see character's creation date. Having it join a top faction, or even multiple characters doing so, will be quite an obvious hint. But as I've said, it'd be multiple accounts, which would be much easier to trace and ban, than having to check individual characters in ED, on every single account.

    Suggestion from s0u1ja b0y in post #8 about locking you in a specific faction based on your activity - similar to how kicking players from your faction results in loss of Influence they've gained for the faction (if active in the past 30 days).
    Basically, if you've gained any Influence from PvP, you will be unable to leave the faction. Coupled with account-wide lock for not being able to have alts in the same faction, this would keep players out from abusing Dailies and being able to avoid the punishment as easily.

    kosmo has another idea in post #11 which could work perfectly with the Dread War 2.0, which will be divided into phases. Further explanation + personal suggestion about kosmo's idea is in post #13.

    < Message edited by Trans -- 2/27/2014 12:02:41 >
    • AQ Epic  Post #: 1
    2/26/2014 18:16:35   
    coolboyelazizy
    Member

    		Ok that would not completely fix the problem cuz they will jus create it on another acc .

    How about making only +25 win counts towards ur faction daily not the player daily ??
    AQW Epic  Post #: 2
    2/26/2014 18:19:40   
    sHiNNNe
    Member

    		They will create accounts in new fake @mail.xx , they have to do this game for faction need 25+ level , so no one will get so fast wins :) all will win FAIR !

    ~ Ruthless Ninja
    Post #: 3
    2/26/2014 18:20:34   
    Ranloth
    Banned


    		 Yes, and I've said it's not a perfect fix. But it's better than nothing. There will never be 100% fix for this, ever.

    quote:

    How about making only +25 win counts towards ur faction daily not the player daily ??

    No. Restricting content because some high level players abuse it, is out of the question. You're penalizing everyone else, because some players ruin the fun for everyone.

    There are other ways to go about it - such as Influence being scaled with level (to compensate for faster fights), so low level players would have faster matches but less Influence, and high level players would have slower matches but higher Influence gain. On average, both should be roughly equal.
    But with that, they'd have to change for LBs/Dailies work - from wins to Influence. Wins can be easily abused already, whilst having scaled Influence would give everyone a fair chance.

    quote:

    They will create accounts in new fake @mail.xx

    AE doesn't only use IP to trace multiple accounts. They have a better system, and Artix/Cysero/both tweeted about it a while back - and by that, I mean months ago.
    quote:

    faction need 25+ level , so no one will get so fast wins

    You'd be surprised how fast wins are at L25'ish. Bunch of underequipped players vs. skilled fully equipped players. It's just as bad at that level, as it is at L10 or so.

    < Message edited by Trans -- 2/26/2014 18:23:48 >
    AQ Epic  Post #: 4
    2/26/2014 18:30:28   
    coolboyelazizy
    Member

    		How would it be unfair To make the wins of +25 only Counts towards the faction not the players Pvp daily ??

    i mean the -25 will have a chance to win daily pvp but their wins will not be in the faction leaderboard daily.
    AQW Epic  Post #: 5
    2/26/2014 18:31:33   
    Ranloth
    Banned


    		 If I thought this was funny, I wouldn't actually suggest something to partially stop it from happening. <.<

    You seem to think AE only uses IP to trace multiple accounts, and it isn't true. This isn't a decade ago, but they've got a better system to trace hackers and those who break rules (namely multiple accounts).

    @coolboyelazizy
    Simply because you're restricting a feature for many players. Say a faction has players ranging from Lvl 20 to 40 (casual), and what then - players under L25 can't even help? Dailies should be available for everyone, including Faction.
    Read my suggestion about scaled Influence, and changing Dailies from wins to Influence instead. This could work better than restricting the bigger part of ED's playerbase (high level players are pretty much the minority).

    < Message edited by Trans -- 2/26/2014 18:33:37 >
    AQ Epic  Post #: 6
    2/26/2014 20:43:43   
    s0u1ja b0y
    Member

    		Why not make it where you can't kick people who have gained influence for 3 days(maybe more). In one day they lvl up to 20ish and then start over. If people couldn't get kicked for 3 days, they wouldn't be able to cheat. And make it where you can't rejoin a faction for 3 days after leaving. LENDARIOS cheats so much. How have they not been caught?
    Epic  Post #: 7
    2/26/2014 21:01:38   
    Ranloth
    Banned


    		 Actually, yes. I like it! Put that together with my suggestion of not being to have two of your own characters in the same faction, this could work just perfectly. A week limit would go well - if someone goes inactive, it wouldn't be too long wait for being able to kick them (even for a casual faction), and does hold back those who abuse it.

    Also, let's leave the personal accusations out. Whether they cheated or not, is not my business nor is it up for discussion. (public accusations are against the rules, and breaking rules results in threads getting locked/deleted, so yeah...)

    < Message edited by Trans -- 2/26/2014 21:03:27 >
    AQ Epic  Post #: 8
    2/26/2014 23:53:53   
    edwardvulture
    Member

    		I have brought up the idea of scaling battle rewards on time and level before. If they did this for influence and they tracked 1vs 1 or 2 vs 2 influence instead of wins, the problem should be fixed.
    AQ DF MQ  Post #: 9
    2/27/2014 1:34:57   
    kosmo
    Member
     

    		 They could devide the competiton in seasons.At the start of each season, the players are allowed to set up the factions, but once season starts, the players can t change or join factions anymore, until the season ends. In this way, once they find out who is cheating, those players get banned and can t hack anymore.
    Epic  Post #: 10
    2/27/2014 1:54:34   
    Xendran
    Member

    quote:

    They could devide the competiton in seasons.At the start of each season, the players are allowed to set up the factions, but once season starts, the players can t change or join factions anymore,


    I don't think you realize just how good this idea is, so just to confirm: This is a REALLY REALLY REALLY good idea.
    Each season can be the start of a new war or war phase.

    < Message edited by Xendran -- 2/27/2014 1:56:00 >
    AQ DF Epic  Post #: 11
    2/27/2014 8:39:45   
    Ranloth
    Banned
    quote:

    Each season can be the start of a new war or war phase.

    And they did say Dread War 2.0 will be divided into phases. Even more so that the Dread War is an ongoing war, not a Summer event like Infernal War, or Winter event with the Frysteland War. If we were to always have an ongoing war, this could work almost flawlessly.
    Say, a war phase may last 2-3 weeks, and then a "week off" where you could invite new players to your faction - or kick the existing ones - before it gets locked again for the duration of the next war phase. (that week off would be probably standard release, not having War-only releases whole year, obviously)

    < Message edited by Trans -- 2/27/2014 18:35:46 >
    AQ Epic  Post #: 12
    2/27/2014 18:11:14   
    s0u1ja b0y
    Member

    		2 problems with that though.

    1. If a player misses the window theres no point in playing for 2 weeks

    2. What about people creating new factions and new players?
    Epic  Post #: 13
    2/27/2014 18:25:11   
    Xendran
    Member

    		@s0u1ja b0y: The answers to those are quire obvious, to be honest.

    1. There is no restriction on adding new faction members. It's just that if you're in one, you can't leave or be kicked until the season ends.
    2. Again, no restriction on creating new factions and recruiting mid season, it's only kicking, leaving and disbanding that is disabled.

    As long as rewards are allignment based, there is still a reason to compete in the war even if your faction cannot be on the top of the war leaderboards.
    AQ DF Epic  Post #: 14
    2/27/2014 18:35:35   
    Ranloth
    Banned


    		 My bad then, I've assumed you won't be able to add new players either. XD
    AQ Epic  Post #: 15
    2/27/2014 19:23:37   
    edwardvulture
    Member

    		They could easily stock factions with low level alts of experienced players and win dailys in each season.
    AQ DF MQ  Post #: 16
    2/27/2014 19:43:05   
    Emperor_Blitz
    Member

    		yep, that's what happens but some factions have low levels in it but they are just like new people you know not going for champ or any of that stuff. Just a new account or something because they are bored of being a level 40...
    Epic  Post #: 17
    2/27/2014 19:47:30   
    Ranloth
    Banned


    		 Scaled Influence - i.e. +3 for 1v1, +9 for 2v2 and +6 for Jugg (for L1-10). Then go up by +1 for L11-20, and then again, and again. Also, changing requirement from Wins to Influence, to win Dailies. This way, alts shouldn't grant as much advantage and could promote a bit more fair environment for everyone to compete in.
    AQ Epic  Post #: 18
    2/27/2014 20:58:26   
    kosmo
    Member
     

    		 @S0u1ja b0y and @xendran. Noone shuld be able to join, leave or create new factions during season, or it wouldn' t work.S0u1ja is right, the problem would be those players that miss season starting, so it would be important to make factions more accessible to all: to join a faction, the player shuld send an application to the faction, once the founder or the officers read and accept the application the player joins automatically. The player can send how many applications he want to different factions until someone doesn t join him.
    In this way very few players would be left factionless, and those ones who stay without faction could still compete in war events for their allingments.

    < Message edited by kosmo -- 2/27/2014 21:09:20 >
    Epic  Post #: 19
    2/28/2014 5:31:06   
    Xendran
    Member

    		@kosmo: You havent actually given ANY reason as to WHY it wouldn't work...
    You actually gave an example as to why NOT having it wouldn't work:

    quote:

    players that miss season starting,


    Allowing players to join but not leave factions mid season allows them to still compete for their allignment. If you don't let them join, it leaves every single player who is not there in between seasons factionless.
    I don't understand how you say that preventing players from joining factions makes factions more accessible, you literally are saying one thing and then making points that go against what you said.


    quote:

    They could easily stock factions with low level alts of experienced players and win dailys in each season.


    You can't leave the faction.... you can't avoid getting into the high levels. If you join with an alt it will be all nice and fun at the start, but eventually you're going to hit those mid levels where you start getting destroyed by heavily geared players that are above your level.
    In the end it would end up smoothing out. You get fast wins at low levels, slow wins at mid levels and moderate wins at level 40.
    It's the same as being level 40 at the start and having moderate wins the entire time.

    This is why this system is so good. You need to really think ahead about all of the effects something has before you can make a judgement call on it.

    < Message edited by Xendran -- 2/28/2014 5:34:13 >
    AQ DF Epic  Post #: 20
    2/28/2014 6:15:02   
    edwardvulture
    Member

    		Well, since seasons are 2-3 weeks, they could just plan to go for it at specific times and they could still be well under the level cap.
    AQ DF MQ  Post #: 21
    3/1/2014 10:43:33   
    Xendran
    Member

    		Then factions that are going to be trying to "abuse" low level alts will be getting so many wins that they will finish up in those bad level ranges (30-38) where they are getting stomped by heavily geared high levels with builds that weren't feasible at lower ones.
    With the way the exp scaling works, around half, if not more, of their time would be spent in these levels. It balances out over time, much better than the current system.
    AQ DF Epic  Post #: 22
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