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RE: =ED= Official Mercenary Balance Discussion Thread

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9/5/2015 18:24:02   
Foulman
Member

The only OP build is TLM STR, because it hurts me a lot. However, I have only encountered people with a 5elevel advantage, so I don't really know if it is that OP.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 151
1/11/2016 16:41:18   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Needed merc buffs:

Static Smash needs to NOT be affected by Kartherax and Shadow Arts, and it needs a slight buff in %

Maul needs to be unblockable

Either Berserker or Double strike need to have no weapon requirement

Bunker Buster needs to lose its dex requirement

Intimidate needs to be 4 turns
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 152
1/11/2016 17:58:30   
racing.lo.mas
Member

Of course, supported. Katherax its too strong for mercenaries, the bot doesnt let them takes energy.
And in the case of shadown arts, I'm not sure, it ignores all energy skills that are considered like "damage". Maybe shadown arts should be changed to ignores the damage that afect the HP, because ignoring also EP makes its too strong.
Supported, the energy given by Static Smash is really low. Most of Merc skills need a lot of energy.

As I said in your post, maul need a buff. It needs a lot of energy and hardly ever stun. You just waste a lot of energy and it just ignores 10% of defense (and it is nothing).
The 2 options, making it unblockable, at least Mercenary would use it like TM use Scythe. And the other option is that the % of stunning chance improved with strength.

Berzeker its too strong, so I support it weapons requeriment. In the case of Double Strike, well, I think it shouldnt have that requirement, but the problem is that it will also buff TLM.
I wanted to use a tech build with sword and I had some skill points remaining, but I couldnt use them in any primary skill because all of them needed a club.
Maybe Mercenary is forced to use a club, I dont see it bad, but I guess if mercenary has its strongers skills locked, it should be the same with other classes, like assimilation.
Any way, I dont support the idea of making Double Strike and Berzeker sword. Maybe Maul can be sword.

I don't see why bunker would lose its dexterity requirement. I think it is fine in the way it is.

I guess is ok with the last one. All debuff need a improvement since buff are strongers than them.
You cant malf because the opponent will use a shield that will decrease your damage to 30. In my opinion all debuff are needing a buff.
Epic  Post #: 153
1/12/2016 1:40:41   
santonik
Member

Perhaps Mercenary need BUFF this too. Healing. Yes healing. Maybe heal effect can be stackking. like surcical and mark of blood. Remember energy controll is pretty WEAK. Same think some cores can be stacking (blood commander).

Maybe This stackking can be mercenary class special. I know it need think more how that can be balanced. Still mercenary need HUGE BUFF now. Hopefully it found soon. No matter how?

Epic  Post #: 154
1/12/2016 3:09:35   
Striker44
Member

For what reason it was nerfed Static smash even if is the weakest energy gain skill No one seems to assume this ?
Post #: 155
1/12/2016 12:25:21   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 @Racing, in that case they need to make assimilation be affected by shadow arts then because this is terribly bugged
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 156
1/12/2016 14:46:42   
racing.lo.mas
Member

They dont consider the energy drained by assimilation like "damage" lol.
Epic  Post #: 157
1/12/2016 17:12:46   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Well I don't see why assimilation gets to drain its correct amount on a shadow arts user, even though they have backup battery, yet static smash drains so little on a class where there is no back up energy source.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 158
1/12/2016 17:41:29   
Mother1
Member

@ TBK

Because with moves like energy parasite and assimilation the drain is the secondary effect simple as that. With Static smash, however it takes straight from primary damage as the primary effect which Shadow arts ignores a part off. The same can be said of every other energy drainer that is the primary effect instead of the secondary. It is also why poison isn't affected seeing as the poison counts as a secondary effect instead of the primary one.
Epic  Post #: 159
1/13/2016 22:37:44   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 #1 rule in balancing ED is to never, EVER compare skills that aren't basically identical in order to try to buff/nerf the other. It just doesn't translate right. IE comparing bunker buster to plasma cannon is perfectly applicable but comparing assim to static smash and trying to change them to be similar is just not good. Same with stuff like massacre: its purpose is simply raw damage and people are trying to add weird lifesteal shenanigans or something to bring it on "par" with supercharge without even realizing that poor suggestions like those are going to eventually deteriorate the unique attributes of classes even more than it already has been.

Static smash is weak and needs a buff. We don't need to go around saying other skills somewhat similar are too weak or too strong and buff/nerf them because of static smash. We have a whole skill tree to take into consideration, not a single skill from it.
Epic  Post #: 160
1/14/2016 3:04:34   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 You know sometimes its that thinking that causes changes in ED to never happen or occur semi-annually. Thanks for making me aware of that "rule" but I would like to disregard it right now and focus on a single skill, as opposed to an entire skill tree, because i, along with a ton of other players in this game, have done our waiting. We're done waiting and suggesting something as large scale as an entire skill tree to remodel will do nothing but make us wait anymore:that is why i like to focus on one or two skills at a time. I may be impatient, sure. It may grant us a month or two of excitement, whatever. My methodology might even be flawed, okay. But that excitement for that one or two months, which was the byproduct of 20-30 minutes of slightly buffing stats, will definitely be worth it as opposed to waiting an entire 6 months-year (which is practically just really bad lag, just like this entire war thing which took what, 8/9 months?).

#1 most hated thing in gaming: Lag/Waiting
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 161
1/14/2016 7:50:27   
Satafou
Member

Lag and waiting for an update are nothing alike lol...
Post #: 162
1/14/2016 12:33:36   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Ok
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 163
1/16/2016 16:26:06   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 The argument that this skill shouldnt deal damage "because it already drains a lot" is completely and utterly invalid. I dont know whether any of you have been merc lately, but i decided to do some testing and what I figured out was that in the most EXTREME circumstance with 650 base primary damage, Mercenaries drain 298 energy recovering . With 717 strength they drain 319. This is in the most extreme conditions

MEANWHILE: A bounty hunter with 29 support drains 268 energy, a mage with BASE strength can take 170 on max assimilation WHILE dealing damage, a f5 lvl 40 tlm with max Atom Smsh cn drain 319 at a cheap price. THESE ARE IN THE WEAKEST CONDITIONS. And youre telling me that with 717 primary damage i can only take 319 and the only bonus is that i get to recover "alot"? At 717 Primary Damage I take what a f5 tlm can drain, nearly the same as what a bounty hunter with 29 support can drain, and only 1.7x the amount of what a techmage with minimal str can drain and my only benefit is that I recover "alot"?

Change this skill, make it deal damage. That's utterly pathetic that with 650 primary damage im draining that close to what other classes can drain at their near MINIMUM stats. Sheesh, the funny thing is at 701 base primary damage tech mages can drain 324 energy, deal damage, recover a large % of that and still have battery back up.

If that's the way this game is supposed to be, this class is supposed to be, just tell me and i'll gladly stop asking for buffs for this class. I dont need a long explanation after doing this testing i've pretty much seen and heard it all.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 164
1/18/2016 0:31:39   
Alphaeus
Member
 

 @TBK

I hate to say this...but that is the way Merc is supposed to be. If I remember correctly, Static Smash has always been just energy steal, never one of the combo effects.

The best comparison to this is the BH's energy stealing skill, since that too is a strictly steal skill.



Now, with THESE two skills in comparison, you can see the weak points in Static Smash. In those regards, here are the ONLY changes that would be practical without messing up skill trees (in other words, pleasing both sides of the argument).


1) Give it a buff in the percents -- at max, you should be draining 50-65%, and receiving about 85% (give or take my percents...they are for example, so might be a bit on the high side for the conversion...) of the energy you drain.

[I](and potentially also)[/I] 2) Drop the Class Wep requirement.


Because this scales with primary damage, the conversion percent needs to be much higher. ALL other energy stealing skills are much more powerful that Merc's Static Smash. Even at 50-60%, at 660 base primary damage you would only be draining 330-396 energy and getting 280-336 energy. That is far more practical, in my mind. It is a reward for having an energy drain only skill.


No, you cannot DIRECTLY compare Assim and Parasite to Static Smash. But...INDIRECTLY, you still have to consider how they balance with this, and you can say that, overall, they give a FAR better reward for the skill than Static Smash. It does, indeed need a buff....although I don't think that it should deal damage...it just needs to be better at what it does do. Which right now, is slightly above nothing.
Post #: 165
1/18/2016 2:04:56   
Mother1
Member

@ Alphaeus

All energy drainers (minus atom smasher) can be used with a sword.
Epic  Post #: 166
1/18/2016 13:42:50   
Alphaeus
Member
 

 @mother1

Oh...lol...well, you can tell that I abandoned my Merc a while back....

Point 1 still holds though.
Post #: 167
1/23/2016 12:38:25   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Merc needs an unblockable to make up for the countless nerfs it has received. My suggestion is making adrenaline unblockable and making bunker buster scale with strength.

Edit: Static smash needs to deal 50 damage, only 50. This grants a lot of benefits such as rage gain and the itty bitty hp needed in order to kill your opponent in a ton of cases

< Message edited by The berserker killer -- 1/23/2016 14:03:47 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 168
3/10/2016 4:10:06   
Gold Shock
Member

In my own belief they are a bit UP but they are very fun and strategic to use. Here is why:

-I still say Merc's Intimidate could be switched with a new buff skill that gives you a set % health back when you get hit. Like a Reroute but it gives you health instead of energy. The problem with that would be would it save you from dying when struck or does dying override the health gain.

-Surgical Strike Increases with Dexterity: Merc has literally NO skills that increase with dex...that's ridiculous. Changing surgical to increase with dex would create some ideas for really interesting builds.

-Artillery strike increases with technology. Replaces the fact that plasma rain got moved from tech to dex


< Message edited by Gold Shock -- 3/10/2016 4:17:47 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 169
3/10/2016 18:59:08   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 I mean lets not stop there though goldshock. As a former mercenary I've encountered many flaws with that class however the 3 biggest things are:

1) Strength has been nerfed way too much in order for any of the moves to even be considered for use. Sure, they have bloodcommander but the cost of bloodcommander along with the return for static smash pretty much cancel eachother out. Either decrease the cost for blood commander or drastically increase the gain of static smash.

2) Some of the skills that ARENT EVEN TIER 4 SKILLS have a base requirement that forces the player to invest points into a certain category. Check it out. Testers should've seen this already but they clearly don't do the job they are assigned to do.

3) Lastly the requirements are too restrictive on this class hence restricting creativity overall
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 170
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