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=ED= Official Tech Mage Balance Discussion Thread

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9/13/2014 14:57:32   
Therril Oreb
Legendary AdventureGuide!


 With so much interest in developing and discussing balance in ED, it has become apparent that we need to organise! So, in order to make things easier on everyone, from developers to players, we are going to organise some specific threads that will hopefully make discussing this simpler and more effective.

Tech Mage Balance Discussion Thread

This is where you can discuss everything balance related to the Tech Mage class.
Got a skill that doesn't fit? Perhaps a combo that proves to be too strong and abusable. Discuss it here with everyone!

A few guidelines before we start:
  • All AE Forum rules are still in effect.
  • No comparisons between other classes. You can use certain facts to build your case on, but please do not turn this into a 'TM vs X' thread.
  • Everyone's opinions are just that. Opinions. If you don't agree, that's fine. But, there is no need for rule breaking behaviour.
  • If you see a rule-breaking post, please refer to The Trinity: 1.) Report it 2.) Ignore it 3.) Move on. We would rather you have fun with the discussion and let the Forum Staff worry about rules broken.
  • Constructive Criticism is meant to improve something, not rant, whine and complain to be heard. If you are going to criticise, do so with the intent to give help, not tear down.

    Happy Discussing!



    < Message edited by Battle Elf -- 8/6/2018 19:19:43 >
    • AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 1
    3/16/2014 17:29:44   
    Noobatron x3000
    Member

    		I'm going to say very little here only messing with assimilate and backup isn't the way to go , I feel you would hurt they uniqueness and kill them when the devs are eventually forced to nerf strength and hp they'd have no build options without the mana control.

    That said bludgeon needs a pretty hefty nerf... % wise and possibly a increase on mana cost to.
    Post #: 2
    3/16/2014 17:42:06   
    Xendran
    Member

    		@Above: Regarding bludgeon, i think it's where a skill should be in power. Most skills should be tweaked to give them a similar efficiency, making them all useful rather than nerfing bludgeon down to a state of uselessness by nerfing the % early, when strength inevitably is going to be rebalanced along with the other stats.
    ------------------
    I seriously think that Battery Backup needs to be fully replaced. I have a good idea for a Tri-Function reroute, and it seriously opens up some diversity to the class as well as making it not purely limited by something like weapon damage for the strike version.

    If this is too hard to implement (but it seriously should be considered because it's a well designed skill) then implement only the first functionality. 


    Reroute
Strike the enemy, granting you 5% of their maximum energy for 5 turns;
The caster gains a percentage of the amount of energy used by rerouted targets;

If cast on yourself, a percentage of remaining health is converted to energy;
Energy gained via self-cast reroute is penalized by 20%;
Self-cast reroute does not consume a turn.

If cast on a partner, a percentage of your remaining energy is transferred to your partner.



    Level 1:  15% of Used Energy / 30% of Health / 55%  of Energy
    Level 2:  17% of Used Energy / 33% of Health / 60%  of Energy
    Level 3:  19% of Used Energy / 36% of Health / 65%  of Energy
    Level 4:  21% of Used Energy / 39% of Health / 70%  of Energy
    Level 5:  23% of Used Energy / 42% of Health / 75%  of Energy
    Level 6:  25% of Used Energy / 45% of Health / 80%  of Energy
    Level 7:  27% of Used Energy / 48% of Health / 85%  of Energy
    Level 8:  29% of Used Energy / 51% of Health / 90%  of Energy
    Level 9:  31% of Used Energy / 54% of Health / 95%  of Energy
    Level 10: 33% of Used Energy / 57% of Health / 100% of Energy



    You can find my full class revamps Here.

    < Message edited by Xendran -- 3/16/2014 17:44:11 >
    AQ DF Epic  Post #: 3
    3/17/2014 4:33:31   
    kosmo
    Member
     

    		 i think assimilation (like static charge) is a little bit too cheep.

    im for making the effect blokable, so it would require a bit more thinking.
    Epic  Post #: 4
    3/17/2014 15:33:00   
    santonik
    Member



    1. Bludgeon

    You make your own bludgeons both. Techmaga and bloodmage. even be able to edit easily. Todays bludgeon is very good to bloodmages but better is techmages. Why? Because techmage have very good energy control.



    2. Battery

    You make your own battery both. Techmaga and Tlmerc even be able to edit easily.


    3. Techmages energy controls is extreme in this moments. That must be weaken.

    i give options

    option 1. http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=21566916&mpage=1&key=� This suggestion give unique defence abilty.

    option 2. Decrease assimilation energy control. Less damage to attack/energy destroy and energy gaining. Make techmage own battery. make that assimilation. This way when it block all energy damage is nullify. Basically minimum energy destroy and energy gaining

    4. Technician

    THis is too cheap to using sometimes. Pure dex build gain Very high benefit this. 1 lvl technician can give over 50+ stats (IIRC) cost is broplem now. Maybe this must be rising littlebit.
    Others build this skill is ok. (my opinion)

    5. Malfunction to support players. Can this littebit rising. im not sure how affective this is now. but many players saying this isnt good anymore. (old glass cannon build)

    6. Overload increased energy cost. It is pretty cheap skill now. whit stun. Easy to make over 700 damage and stun changes. This alone is very strong skill. energy control give more power to this skill too. (more energy is more time overloads)
    I've lost many times because of the stun. I myself have 5 focus build. armor covers all is physical. the rest of the stats is the technology. So, should be the tank. but dies in two skill tree skills. (overload and Plasma Rain combo 1vs1)





    Epic  Post #: 5
    3/18/2014 11:48:35   
    edwardvulture
    Member

    		I present to thee the 4 focus supercharge sup/tech build shall it be an alternative to every other overused mage build
    AQ DF MQ  Post #: 6
    3/20/2014 3:30:23   
    WikiMeister
    Member

    		I'm not sure of what you guys think of the once-effective Strength-Support Tech Mages, but Santonik has a point. Since I was one of such build users, I can assure anyone who uses it now is going to fall behind due to the heavy skill nerfs which Malfunction has undergone as well as the increased focus overall in setting up a balanced defence with Dexterity and Technology stats. With the following review of skills, I may note that I shall mention some 'special' items, such as robots and seasonal weaponry that is often seen to counter such effects.

    At level 60 Support, your Malfunction would only decrease an adversary's technology by around 32-34 points, which can be countered to uselessness by a simple level 1 Technician with a standard Technology/Dexterity Tech Mage, or 'cleansed' by an assault bot. Not to mention Malfunction is in itself a very costly skill in terms of energy expenditure AND potential to be blocked. Personally, I believe Malfunction's potency progression should be increased by at least 10 points, so at level 60 it should decrease technology level by around 42-44 to make it truly worth the price paid to utilise the debuff effect.

    Concerning the bludgeon, it has always served as the mainstay for a Mage to deal physical damage to pierce the defences of a high Technology build player, and nerfing it now will cripple any Mage's ability to fight effectively, as a Tech Mage is inclined to use energy-based spells (90% of the time) and thus an energy weapon to facilitate it. Besides, the bludgeon is a trade-off, high offence ability that can be completely negated and nullified with a block, and highly rewarding upon making successful contact.

    Technician has always been the 'utility' skill in the Tech Mage's repertoire, and it whilst it has often been accused of being 'OP' due to its low energy price and high boosts, a Tech Mage compromises significant skill points which can potentially be devoted to offensive skills such as Plasma Bolt (though Technician boosts the damage dealt by said skill and Super Charge). Externally, by assigning points to Technician, a Tech Mage's energy-based skill offence and defence alike will be increased considerably... but what isn't taken into account is the turn taken to cast the spell in addition to the energy price at higher Technician levels can ultimately slow down the Tech Mage. "Why?" do you ask? Because a Tech Mage cannot tank all day without compromising something. The consequence of such a boost is that fewer stat points have been assigned to the vital energy regeneration skills such as Assimilation or Battery Backup - without ignoring the offensive skills which the Mage relies on to deal damage. Hence, the low cost, high-reward principle of Technician should remain as it is to be used as an auxiliary skill - augmenting defence/offence where needed to eliminate debuffs and or increase damage output.

    Super Charge has always been an anomaly within the Tech Mage repertoire. Boasting high damage, life-steal and partial resistance bypassing, its effectiveness is limited by one's Technology level and level of mastery assigned to the skill. It remains at it is since it does not pose a GREAT threat to anyone, and is known as an excellent finisher or nuke to bring another to their knees. Nothing what a good Field Medic can do in this case.

    Defense Matrix is an excellent skill, I've no comment upon it besides the high energy costs as the skill progresses and the support requirement to increase its potency - since as I mentioned, Support builds seem to be dying out.

    Upon that note, Fire Scythe, prior to the update was a brilliant finisher for Strength-Support Tech Mages, as it can be coupled in conjunction to a Rage to deal a powerful, unblockable, defence-piercing wave of damage. Whilst I'd liken it to something of a substitute Bunker Buster for Tech Mages, it seems only effective with Strength-Support Tech Mages as it requires Strength to increase in power and Support to unlock higher skill mastery.

    I've nothing to say with Overload and Plasma Rain, the ubiquitous mainstay skills of any Dexterity-Pure Tech Mage. Overload may *seem* OP, but it relies on considerable luck. Don't get me wrong, some people seem just too luck and stun you upon every encounter - but when it fails, a counter-attack is always gratifying: starting with the frail energy capacity of the Dexterity Mage.

    Plasma Bolt, is good as it is. If I see another nerf to its average damage, I'm afraid to say that Plasma Bolt wouldn't even be worth using anymore. The unblockable and consistent damage renders it an essential skill in the build of any caster.

    Well, that's my analysis of the current Tech Mage skill tree, with my only concern being to the state of Malfunction and growing prevalence in 'balance/focus'Tech Mages since casting has lost its charm due to the increased potency of defensive stats and price to cast such attacks, and the nerfed damage output of the glass-cannon Strength-Support mages.
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 7
    3/20/2014 4:12:21   
    edwardvulture
    Member

    		The sup-str combo were once able to take on 5 bonus builds, I remembered cuz I used it to kill them. Anyways, they are nearly non-existent now because they are just ineffective atm. When you guys think about nerfing overload by giving it a bigger energy cost, it affects everyone else that chooses not to spam dex. you have to look at the whole picture and spectrum of stat combinations when you change a skill. They nerfed Plasma Bolt when it wasn't even a problem. That was really funny. They should change each skill investment to go up by 25 and make it start much lower because I just do not see people investing in plasma bolt anymore.
    AQ DF MQ  Post #: 8
    4/15/2014 9:36:29   
    AssassinOrd3r
    Member


    		 TM's need a buff i have tried many builds went from having 10k credits to having 2 credits from changing builds every 2 seconds i always end up coming back to dex builds which win about almost every 6 or 7 battles and i have used focus builds tank builds nothing works on tm but dex and your win to lose ratio with this build is terrible we are forced to use a spam stat build
    Epic  Post #: 9
    4/15/2014 10:17:00   
    DarkDevil
    Member

    		^ what do you think is the problem ? give example as: this skill lack damage or has too high cost.
    what do you think will be a good solution ?

    being particular about something helps in the determining the issues.
    AQ Epic  Post #: 10
    4/15/2014 10:31:51   
    edwardvulture
    Member

    		haha at least TM's get to use dex builds, it does not work for every other class unless you spam a lot of strength with it too, but then it isn't really a dex build(sort of).
    AQ DF MQ  Post #: 11
    4/15/2014 14:43:55   
    Agracho
    Member

    		I personally think Tech mages need to scale onto technology. Now they are just building so much dex,it is impossible to kill them. Tech/blood mages are now overpopulating ED.

    Mercs went from the strongest to weakest. Something needs to be done vs. tech mages.





    *P.S. I am fairly new to the game,so i may not know balance a lot.

    < Message edited by Agracho -- 4/15/2014 14:59:56 >
    AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 12
    4/15/2014 16:41:36   
    lampur1
    Member

    		Mostly the reason stat abuse is very good on tm is cuz they are the only class that does damage without str or sup and if you look at tm kit its best hitting abilitys all benefit with dex or tech meaning its harder to make a non abuse build
    Although tm kit is very powerful it is limited to certain kinds of builds and mostly reliase.on dex and tech and unlike other classes a tm without energy is dead

    < Message edited by lampur1 -- 4/15/2014 16:47:16 >
    AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 13
    5/7/2014 14:37:56   
    Plasmastorm
    Member

    		As I said in my earlier post, its back and fixable.

    They have battery and assimilation which are 2 energy revival abilities.

    Merged thread to the Tech Mage thread topic. ~Wind

    < Message edited by Wind -- 5/19/2014 10:22:29 >
    Post #: 14
    5/7/2014 18:41:16   
      Exploding Penguin
    Moderator


    		 They sacrifice damage if they actually want to successfully do this. Also high field medic costs enough energy that a high-level energy drain skill can normally shut it down, or at least stall it for a little longer. Also, when they give themselves energy, unless you're a TLM or CH, you get a good chunk of energy yourself. They are essentially just feeding you energy to heal loop too, and given assimilation's damage reduction penalty and not-so-strong energy recovery even with tons of skill points (which takes away from other skills thus making their damage very weak in the end), outstalling heal-loop TMs is really easy. If a build can't benefit from the energy they literally hand to you whenever they use battery backup, then that build has a serious strategic hole in it and should be fixed.
    Epic  Post #: 15
    5/7/2014 21:27:43   
    Teserve
    Member

    		@above
    Agreed, most EP drains can take most of the EP from Battery.
    MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 16
    5/8/2014 4:35:13   
    SylvanElf
    Member
     

    		 Not a real issue, as above said, is countered easily by 4/6 classes.
    Post #: 17
    5/21/2014 15:42:24   
    edwardvulture
    Member

    		Dex TM was way more balanced in the previous phases. It used to be that Tech Mages had to take damage to regain energy(or use the long removed booster). Also, getting energy for taking damage was another detriment to strength builds. I say bring reroute back, nerf battery and put them on the same skill tree(the 0-cost logic I mentioned numerous times).
    AQ DF MQ  Post #: 18
    5/25/2014 11:09:32   
    Teserve
    Member

    		@above

    quote:

    I say bring reroute back, nerf battery and put them on the same skill tree(the 0-cost logic I mentioned numerous times).


    Since I think they aren't bringing back passives, it will have to be an active for Reroute... it would need a buff from 30% I would think. Then again, if they have Assimilation and Battery Backup on the same tree, then maybe they have so much EP control that it won't need anything done to it.

    I agree though, taking damage to gain EP was way more balanced.

    Can you explain this "0-cost logic" to me? I don't get it....

    @below
    But what about the "logic" part?

    < Message edited by Teserve -- 5/25/2014 19:51:20 >
    MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 19
    5/25/2014 12:22:38   
    GearzHeadz
    Member

    		The move costs 0 energy to use.
    DF AQW Epic  Post #: 20
    5/27/2014 11:05:53   
    edwardvulture
    Member

    		And also they benefit every kind of build. If the skill tree was split and extended instead of turning every passive to active then there would probably be more build diversity today.
    AQ DF MQ  Post #: 21
    6/8/2014 16:08:39   
    King Bling
    Member

    		I am a tech mage level 40 rank 43, my stats n skills are 1200 health 460 defns 400 resis 500 aux dmg 450 primary both and descent dex spamming 6 overload 3 plasma rain 200 assimi and max battery, out of energy? never i have max battery nice assimilation and ofcourse the generator giving me 290 energy........1vs1 totally op even strength build deal 90-140 damage at max... and obviously i stun n block them almost every time with my core... 2vs2 not beatable i feel like i can jugg in 2vs2 as well and oh well the juggernaut, i cnt mention, im just unbeatable there :)
    Post #: 22
    6/8/2014 20:38:02   
      Exploding Penguin
    Moderator


    		 I would be surprised if you never ran out of energy given that assimilation now has a whopping 4 turn cooldown and battery backup has an even bigger 5-turn one.
    Epic  Post #: 23
    6/8/2014 22:20:14   
    lionblades
    Member

    		@King Bling
    quote:

    2vs2 not beatable i feel like i can jugg in 2vs2 as well and oh well the juggernaut, i cnt mention, im just unbeatable there :)

    Feeling/thinking you can do it and actually doing are 2 different things lol. I doubt you can even get 70-80% ratio in jugg L40 or otherwise proof in a video. Don't exaggerate lol. Also like Exploding Penguin said TM does run out of energy. I am TM and I can confirm this. TM has good energy control, but not as good as you say.

    < Message edited by lionblades -- 6/8/2014 22:22:24 >
    AQW  Post #: 24
    6/16/2014 22:20:53   
    The berserker killer
    Member

     

    		 I am seeing a lot of posts saying "TM needs a buff". Lets look at the facts:
    TM is the only class able to completely tank one of the two most critical categories (Dexterity or Technology) and completely benefit from it with mind blowing damage, repeatedly.

    TMs can tank one category (Dexterity) and increase a level one 4 turn shield (Technician) to give them 40 points on Technology which can:
    1)Increase Resistance
    2)Increase Deflection Chance
    3)Put their skills that scale with Technology on the same level as their Dexterity based skills

    They have 2 energy regeneration moves

    5 effective unblockables that are most likely strong and which can be continuously used throughout the duration of a battle with a Battery that regenerates 300+ mp

    7 unblockables if you add in their aux and primary

    A mp stealing skill that simultaneously deals damage and whose effect cannot be blocked

    Have the Potential to regenerate Mana 3 consecutive times (Assimilation, Battery, Regeneration/Piston)

    I can go on forever. The point is, lets be honest, this class is completely NOT underpowered and I don't believe they need a buff. It's not the class that's overpowered, it's high ranking dex mages

    < Message edited by The berserker killer -- 6/17/2014 1:57:35 >
    AQ DF Epic  Post #: 25
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