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RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread

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9/14/2014 8:59:49   
Ranloth
Banned


 It's pretty easy to balance that, really. Weapon damage goes down with level, so finding the right % should work at all levels. The fun catch with this is - it actually promotes defensive builds more, who will rely on EP, and Strength only gets higher damage instead. So, in a way, it benefits both builds differently. I'd hate to see the unblockable hit go though, since it's great to postpone rage and isn't really overpowered, purely due to being stripped off all the effects.
AQ Epic  Post #: 126
9/14/2014 13:52:13   
kosmo
Member
 

 i also think that static should stay unblokable, they just need to not overbuff the gain too much and it will work good.
Epic  Post #: 127
9/19/2014 22:25:28   
theholyfighter
Member

Static Charge's Cooldown lowered to 3 (or even 2) from 4

Reason: its energy gain per usage is about 200. Assimilation, Static Smash and Static Grenade simply takes away all of it, not even mentioning the energy they can get back and the same Cooldown they share.

< Message edited by theholyfighter -- 9/20/2014 0:23:44 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 128
9/26/2014 13:18:41   
suboto
Member

Ok i understand that static charge is fixed but what about emp O_O that thing drains almost 600energy at max and its a tier 1 skill and its unblockable.
The progression needs a nerf of 0.5 on progression to lower the game breaking balance issue with this skill.
for example of how its oped.
its become a must have spammable move.
near end battle it clears out battery and then some.
Epic  Post #: 129
9/26/2014 13:39:20   
Ranloth
Banned


 Yes, EMP is something that will be looked at. We're aware of the combo, which is the same as when CHs were initially released, and SC was even more powerful.
AQ Epic  Post #: 130
9/26/2014 15:05:55   
FrostWolv
Member

Playing ED again after SC was changed .... finally can make other build apart from str

Well i dnt want emp to be fixed ....

the only thing that this class has is emp ... no signauture nuke skills

I guess lack of nuke skil makes CH and TLM have hard time ..

Before omega both didnt have nukes but had defense passive and energy gain skill which allowed them to have an existance ( while Merc were tank but lacked energy gain which was replaced by their nuke skills)

static grenade is a semi nuke skill with low damage but can stun ... if in a match it didnt stun then its use goes void

Merc have Berzerk and bunker

BH doesnt have nuke but have Mark to assist aggro gameplay.

TM have tons of nuke skills

BM have bludgeon, plasma cannon and overload

TLM are in same spot as CH .... past two days I have only seen just 1 TLM

so if EMP is asked to be nerfed then I want Devs to provide CH a unique nuke skill as CH apart from str build is tough to manage since value of malfunction is less than it was before.

Can anyone tell me how bad is Support stat nerfed .... i made a support CH and only crit once in 10 match.

_____________________________
Epic  Post #: 131
9/26/2014 15:11:27   
Mother1
Member

@ Frostwolv

Support was never nerfed. Everyone was misinformed due to the staff changing the descriptions to fit only 2 lines leaving out everything else that support does. As a result people thinking this was the case found non support based builds to use that work.
Epic  Post #: 132
9/26/2014 21:39:13   
theholyfighter
Member

Something quite interesting is that Static Charge has its effectiveness increased per 1 support.

Say I were to use a primary weapon dealing 350 damage; 1% effectiveness makes it a 3.5 increase per 7 support.

18 support
+14 energy
45 support
+3.5 energy
55 support
+17.5 energy
85 support

So, if it were before the x10 change, that's just a +2,+4,+2 energy more. The truth is, although it is said to improve with support, there's definitely no noticeable difference at all.
AQW Epic  Post #: 133
3/2/2015 9:25:07   
Stonehawk
Member

Since Static Charge is a weak energy gain without energy stealing (we need 2 turns to recover + take opponent's energy), I suggest 3 turns cooldown for it.

The main problems of 4 Turns cooldown for Static Charge, if comparing to other classes:
1: Both classes that uses battery charge (333 energy, while static charge gives 245 ONLY IF you have really high support) have a second energy recovering skill.
2: Bounties and mercs take energy and recover at the same time, which means static charge mostly only gives energy to those opponents.

Lowering cooldown to 3 is the solution, making it able to get energy back against energy stealers + gainers, by using it 1 turn sooner.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 134
3/3/2015 6:50:54   
shadow.bane
Member

^ wrong , since ch have that BIG EMP grenade , while bounties are the weakest in energy steal ! i have 62 support i take 322 energy and gain 178 exactly . in order to work perfect u need high support and let's face it no one plays supprt bh cause there is no such thing to do with support while your a bounty ! so on 4 CD all energy drains and take etc... are just perfect .

_____________________________

Bane Hallow The Last Shadow Fiend.
AQW Epic  Post #: 135
3/3/2015 14:51:39   
Squrwogrona
Member

@Shadow bane

Why wrong. The fact is, if u use static charge in later stages, you are just giving energy to your opponent. So most of the time, the fight is reduced to good old brawl without energy.
If ur opponent is tm, you are constantly on zero, whilst tm has full energy (this is valid for BM,BH,CH,Merc vs tm)

Lowering cd on static charge might lead to opness, but the class itself is presented as tinkering with technology and upgrading themselves, therefore having two classes with better energy control instead of one is improvement to variety in my book.

If lowering cd is too much, I'd suggest giving bigger energy gain to static charge to ofset the fact that assimilate/atom smash drains almost everything you gain.

The state now is that both TM and TLM (with a club) just laugh at your emp and at whatever you gain by static charge. That is just a problem with battery though; I'm for returning 5 turns cd, but bigger energy gain.

I think that energy metagame CH vs BH,BM,Merc is fine as it is.

Also, I support that BH's static grenade should drain more; maybe scale with dex or str; not with tech however, too much synergy and we saw how op that was a while ago.
Epic  Post #: 136
3/7/2015 12:57:05   
Magelord_99
Member
 

 Lately I'm feeling that my transition from TM to CH was a BAAAD decision at how underpowered and useless all builds I manage to make are.
AQW Epic  Post #: 137
3/7/2015 14:16:31   
dfo99
Member
 

 /\ because you are level 22?
Post #: 138
3/7/2015 21:55:06   
Daph Duck
Member

I think we all need to look at what an awful class Cyber hunter is. Compared to all other 5 classes it is severely underpowered and in most cases simply unusable. Let's take a look at their skill tree first. At a glance you can see the Poor synergy. EMP costs a huge amount of energy to use yet Static gives such a baby amount, how is one supposed to be able to both EMP And heal when they only get 210-240 energies from Static Charge? Their offence does not make since either, Cyber Hunters are called CYBER hunters implying that we are cyber and technical and possibly 47% robotic, yet we only HAVE ONE OFFENSIVE SKILL that is developed by TECHNOLOGY THAT IS OVERPOWERED!!! But the thing is... our other offensive skill MULTI SHOT improves by DEXTERITY (not making sense because we are CYBER hunters not BOUNTY hunters) and it is EXTREMELY 1000000% OVERPOWERED! Thing is though... Multi shot is THE ONLY THING we have Going for us... And which other class uses Multi Shot? BOUNTY HUNTER!! And WHICH class can make FAR MORE USE OUT OF DEXTERITY?....... BOUNTY HUNTER!! Why would ANYBODY want to be a CH in these circumstances? No one would come here for that ONE SKILL PLASMA GRENADE when they can go BH and have both OP SKILLS MULTI SHOT AND STUN GRANADE.......
ANOTHER PROBLEM- defense matrix is SIMPLY UNUSABLE the only way to make it improve is by either putting it to high levels or being forsed to train Support. If we put DM at a high level it costs way too much energy inappropriate with the baby Static Charge. But... If we train support we are limatted to using a support build or focus. Support builds are good but not on a cyber hunter because to be an affective support CH you need Malfunction and it is NOT APPROPRIATE WITH STATIC CHARGE!!! CONECTION IS NOT STRUNG AT ALL!!!!! But if we go FOCUS not only it is BAD BAD BAD and one more time BAD but it will decrease VIABLE VARIETY!!
Basically.. the entire problem is how small STATIC CHARGE IS... i have a few suggestions.. Either make it 2 turns cool down or 125% damage! OR BOTH!!! TO MAKE UP FOR HOW BAD THE CLASS IS
Or just replace it with BATTARY BACKUP!!!! I think we deserve that OP skill for once again the rest of our poor skill tree.. Their is a reason why Tec mage and TLM dominates everybody!
It's either FIX STATIC or completely change EVERY other skill on their tree... Potentally replace a few.. And I dont think we should do that when we could be using that time to make more weapons and write more missions!
Static can be WIPED OUT with ANY energy drain... FIX IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT's all you need to do to make cyber hunter at least playable!!
AQW Epic  Post #: 139
3/8/2015 5:18:41   
Squrwogrona
Member

@Daph

Nice example how "advanced" advanced classes are;) I'm cyber too (for now) and this class is not viable unless you are a high ranker; and by then every other class with high ranks performs better.

Static charge=free energy for opponent; either buff gain a huge amount or decrease cd.

EMP: good, but usable once or twice per fight, depends how many sc you can pull of without immediately losing ur gained energy.

Multishot: sux, tried dex build on cyber and it is just horrible, compared to bh. This is a prime candidate for replacement with unique skill for CH's.

Poison: not usable in 2v2 anyway, and now I have a sword, no point having claws (cheapshot is fine, but only with str.)

Massacre: after a nerf; well u can still do poison massacre, but we have this for years and I'm bored with this build. Good for replacement too.

Grenade: only one decent and unique skill for CH's. And it is a lackluster.

Matrix and Armor: have their uses, but reflex would be better. At least then dex build would be viable. But why having same build as BH's when CH is a different class, hm?

Malf: worse scalling than smoke (bcs smoke is from tech and CH's goes always more tech then support with f5)

Arts: constantly being buffed and still underperforming, so yay. But I have to say it is now not a suicide to use them, so at least this is some fun.

Currently only 2 builds: str poison massacre (boring); f5 way too much prone to RNG, so quite frustrating tbh. Cmon, we need more builds...

Epic  Post #: 140
3/10/2015 9:05:54   
Striker44
Member

@ Daph Duck
Good points , you miss one : No physical attack skill (need one like Fire Scythe)

And how about a multi skill scalable with tech ?
Post #: 141
3/11/2015 2:09:04   
kittycat
Member

Well a physical attack skill has been compensated with Cheap Shot, because Cheap Shot is your damage skill. Perhaps buffing Plasma Grenade to the extent where is power between its current level and overload would suffice.
AQ MQ  Post #: 142
3/11/2015 20:54:09   
Midnightsoul
Member

Yes. SC has too many weaknesses. People steal your energy too easily and the gain from SC is not even that great. Lowering the cooldown to 3 would make it easier for CHs. I would prefer if the amount gained per SC was lowered to compensate for the lowered cooldown.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 143
3/11/2015 21:57:53   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Static charge is essentially free energy at no cost. While in reality it seems to be easily dealt with by getting your energy drained as soon as you use it, static grenade, static smash, EMP, etc... give no rage nor damage like static charge does. Assimilation gives less rage due to the base damage mitigation and typically doesn't even outdrain the recovery of static charge. Energy parasite takes a couple turns to drain the same amount that static charge recovered and gives less rage due to the base damage mitigation. Other forms of energy gain such as battery backup give no rage on use nor deal damage.

Overall, static charge on paper proves to be a lot more useful than it seems.
Epic  Post #: 144
3/12/2015 5:27:44   
Squrwogrona
Member

@EP

Point is, no one uses static charge bcs it deals dmg it is used as energy gain... and in later turns it is just unusable bcs of high cd. IDK how something so obvious i.e. all drains 3 cd and static 4=no energy can even make it into the game.

Battery has also 4 but the gain is 100+ more than static AND it is supported by assimilation/frenzy

Ok, you can somewhat plan around this against merc, bh, but you still end up in situation use sc=give free energy

Against tlm or tm, you can do squat. Especially now with unblockable atom.

BM's are the only class against which sc works.

Frankly, I switched to CH bcs there were so few of them and I wanted to know why. Now I know.

In general, considering energy meta: classes with battery=superior

I'm just mad that CH is an advanced class=you pay to switch and in this case you pay for a nerf.

Current state, if bh's were advanced and cyber basic, it would be the correct order.
Epic  Post #: 145
3/12/2015 8:22:53   
King Bling
Member

Nope you're wrong, im CH and so far I haven't lost even one match, try bringing any of your OP friend who is not CH and I will show you what a CH can do.
Post #: 146
3/12/2015 11:15:01   
Squrwogrona
Member

@King

I assume ur using str build? That way its thanks to str, not the class. If ur not then ur better cyber player than me.
Btw you doing 1v1 or 2v2? I'm playing 2v2.

< Message edited by Squrwogrona -- 3/12/2015 11:22:02 >
Epic  Post #: 147
3/12/2015 14:09:02   
Satafou
Member

Cyber is actually a very strong class if played correctly, it just has a different play style compared to the other classes which might take some time adapting to for less experienced players.

< Message edited by Satafou -- 3/12/2015 14:27:28 >
Post #: 148
3/12/2015 14:19:22   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Oh, so you guys are telling me that a 4 turn shield that reduces damage by as much as 25% (think its 30% now) was never thought of as strong? This is the problem with balance, you guys only grow bored with classes because youre too lazy to utilize the class effectiveness and figure out builds.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 149
3/12/2015 15:40:16   
King Bling
Member

Nah im using 750 health f5 build, 1vs1 2vs2 both
Post #: 150
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