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RE: =OS= Beta Release Thread 149 - Read the first post!

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8/1/2014 18:54:40   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 We're not getting boss decks as players. The decks were balanced around the fact that an AI would be using them inefficiently. Not only that but it greatly reduced the amount of time farming by being able to defeat even lvl 20 monsters quickly. Eventually Nulgath would have to keep making releases cost more and more gold or just cut the amount of gold we get from battles so players can't just stockpile for an hour and be able to access all the new content without even putting effort in for it. But then that punishes players who don't want an easy mode and prefer actually having to put effort in the game. Boss decks were basically cheat codes. They may start out great but they quickly suck all the fun out of the game.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 151
8/1/2014 19:01:13   
The Jop
Member

Then I don't think bosses should use those decks. The whole concept of Oversoul was that you can become anything you fight, and I took that to mean you have their decks, not only their armors. They can make bosses more difficult by making them smarter and/or giving them more energy, but using a completely broken deck seems like a cop-out to me. Not for a regular game, but for a game where the main goal is possessing what you fight. I think you should have the same deck as the character you possess, especially when it's difficult because then you really earn it, but I would prefer if they both the A.I. and the players have the same balanced deck, but the A.I. can use it better for some other reason.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 152
8/1/2014 19:23:52   
Mondez
Member

Man I thought we were over with this boss issue when they were first released. Heck if we were allowed to use the boss decks and everyone who played when the first nightmare bosses knew how ridiculously OP the boss cards were it would make the entire point of battling and having tournaments pointless if everyone just used characters with the boss cards.

Bosses are made for the challenge of the game. The reward of possessing them was good enough and many players enjoyed them of course there are those that felt them to be unnecessary.

If OS had proper development we would've had multiple characters in battle or team battles against mega bosses like probably the endgame Nulgath which we will probably never get a chance to see.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 153
8/1/2014 19:27:09   
The Jop
Member

I said several times that I don't want players to use boss decks as they are now; I want both players and bosses to have the same balanced decks, but have bosses be given other advantages.

< Message edited by The Jop -- 8/1/2014 19:33:40 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 154
8/1/2014 19:32:19   
Mondez
Member

@The Jop
Ah, my bad I was just skimming through. I can see where you are going with it, but I think the bosses are fine as they stand or they could be like the TC and use other elemental cards as a good advantage while using a regular deck with the enhanced AI.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 155
8/1/2014 19:38:56   
The Jop
Member

@Mondez
That would be good, as long as you get the deck you faced. It would be more creative than giving bosses highly damaging moves for very low energy costs.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 156
8/1/2014 20:10:59   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 They're still keeping their OPd decks. They're supposed to be bosses, which means they're supposed to be challenging. They're hardly a threat right now with the decks they have. They also seem to have more starting energy because I've seen them use more than 5 energy on the first turn. AI enhancements only go so far, as well as requires a tons more coding which is basically just thrown away on a very select few characters. Giving them more energy to start with and also making them have more than 5 mana per turn also requires more coding and is again limited to a very small percentage of the character base. Simply put, it takes too much coding to make them actually tough when it takes much less to just overload their decks with powerful cards.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 157
8/1/2014 20:11:20   
Gorillo Titan
Member

I didn't say we get the boss deck I was saying make wild frost dragon powerful
Post #: 158
8/1/2014 20:26:05   
The Jop
Member

@ND Mallet
How about giving bosses double energy regeneration and energy cap? That still makes them extremely threatening while giving players what they fought, which is what Oversoul is about. My only problem is that players are not getting what they're defeating and possessing, so this seems like a decent alternative. Sure it would be more difficult to code, but also more creative and genuine to the players in my opinion. This is not something they should or are even able to code right now though, and I am aware of that. It's just an idea and what I would prefer.

@Gorillo
Yeah, and then I started talking about how I dislike when you fight something drastically more powerful than what you get when you possess it.

< Message edited by The Jop -- 8/1/2014 20:29:58 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 159
8/1/2014 20:32:36   
Gorillo Titan
Member

Well they already nerfed bosses another would be pointless they already are bosses and we get the boss decks for witch blade and vergil boss.
Post #: 160
8/1/2014 20:34:15   
The Jop
Member

Not nerfing, just giving people what they fought. I want them to still be as much of a challenge as they are now, or more, but with them using the same decks players get from possession.

We don't actually get the boss decks anyway, they're actually:

500 Attack for 1 Neutral Energy
800 for 2
500 Defense for 2
500 Unblockable for 1
2000 over 4 turns for 6
5-hit combo of 2000 for 8


< Message edited by The Jop -- 8/1/2014 20:36:07 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 161
8/1/2014 20:38:15   
Gorillo Titan
Member

Corruption wouldn't exist if that was the case though but its not that big a problem since they all nuetral and just using boss characters would be the same.
Post #: 162
8/1/2014 20:39:54   
The Jop
Member

I don't know what you mean. All the boss cards are a lot cheaper than anything players have access to, so we don't actually get the boss decks, like you said.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 163
8/1/2014 20:48:54   
Gorillo Titan
Member

You can buy boss vergil and wotchblade for 7 sgs with the boss decks.

Post #: 164
8/1/2014 20:51:00   
The Jop
Member

They're not the same cards as the original bosses; the player cards cost a lot more energy and the decks don't have the 5 hit combo of 2000 or 500 unblockable.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 165
8/1/2014 21:24:21   
Gorillo Titan
Member

Even though its to late to change it now when was the last time a character got nerfed December Xmas elf after triadan ranted after loosing to dylligraphy?
Post #: 166
8/2/2014 7:53:35   
Asuka
AQW Designer of All Things


 If you were to get the same boss deck cards from the characters, pvp would become REAALLLYYY unbalanced so fast (May I remind you about Witchblade?)

The boss deck finds are there for the challenge and helping the rarity.
The deck itself is very hard to balance without upsetting people who do indeed want it.

There are three choices in it:

A) Release it how it is, no questions asked:
This will just unbalance a lot of things regardless of what people say or think. It's a very powerful deck and depending on availability, everything just turns into a mess in terms of Balance.

B) Have Minor tweaks on it:
I believe we have tried that at one point too We actually did....It was being TOO powerful and no one could defeat any of the bosses and it was tweaked to what it is now..Nevertheless, it would still cause an imbalance because in order to keep the boss deck "unique", it needs to be extremely powerful. It wouldn't keep that aspect if released.

C) Not release it at all and have it as a challenge:
This one is the best one. It's there. It has a challenge for people who are looking for it. It cannot unbalance the game/PvP

Post merge due to staff edit ~Kiyone

< Message edited by Kiyone -- 8/11/2014 21:50:29 >
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 167
8/2/2014 8:45:09   
The Jop
Member

What about giving the bosses the same decks that the players get, but giving them double the energy regeneration and energy cap? They should still be very difficult but it would give players access to what they fought for.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 168
8/2/2014 9:13:35   
GuardMouse
Member

OverSoul is a PvP oriented game. Making a character essentially twice as good as the other 270+ characters would be disastrous for the main focus of the game. (PvPing)

< Message edited by GuardMouse -- 8/2/2014 9:14:09 >

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Wiki On!
AQW  Post #: 169
8/2/2014 9:24:05   
The Jop
Member

No, I'm saying that both the players and bosses should have the same balanced decks that players get now, but bosses should get other advantages to make them extra powerful, like double energy, like I said.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 170
8/2/2014 9:35:39   
Megadragonknight
Member

I think I know what the Jop means, he means that Bosses should try not to be extremely tough for players to beat. But with the double energy the bosses' deck have, they are now pretty much balance and will be quite easy to beat even though they are still unique and stronger than other AI characters. The Jop don't mean us players, to get Bosses' deck which can end up being one of our most OP characters. Correct me if I am wrong.

Anyway, if its about wanting to make AI character quite difficult to beat without Boss' deck, Tyrant Moose and Soul Wyvern were 2 good example of being tough AI opponent due to their own deck which make them stronger even without boss' deck.
Post #: 171
8/2/2014 9:47:37   
GuardMouse
Member

@MegaDragonKnight From what I gathered he wants the players to be able to have twice the amount of energy regeneration and energy cap if they happen to capture the boss.

quote:

What about giving the bosses the same decks that the players get, but giving them double the energy regeneration and energy cap? They should still be very difficult but it would give players access to what they fought for.


I disagree, as it would essentially double the character's power over-all.


~Please do not use your signature more than once per page, it is spam.
Mritha

< Message edited by Mritha -- 8/15/2014 17:22:24 >
AQW  Post #: 172
8/2/2014 9:55:06   
Megadragonknight
Member

@guardmouse
I see.

I would rather just stick to having characters with non-boss deck. They are just good without boss deck. Soul Wyvern, Tyrant Moose and many more characters are just good with their own deck.
Post #: 173
8/2/2014 10:02:12   
Gorillo Titan
Member

Its less work for testers having a premade powerful deck thought up rather than having to make every unique character such as DFR good with its natural element.
Post #: 174
8/2/2014 11:57:50   
Magical Winds
Member

Maybe disable the PVP button while using characters with boss decks?
AQW  Post #: 175
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