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Burst Damage

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8/6/2014 7:50:55   
King Bling
Member

Here is a fine suggestion for something that I just noticed:-

First of all, here is what I have gathered:-

For Mercs:- Bunker Buster
For Tech Mages:- Overload, Fire Scythe, Plasma Rain, Bludegon
For Blood Mages:- Plasma Cannon, Plasma Rain, Overload, Bludegon
For Tactical Mercs:- Surgical Strike
For Bounty Hunters:- MultiShot, Stun Grenade (But needs massive amounts of freakingly high dexterity to work)

But for the bounty hunters and the cyber hunters there are no burst damage moves, like for example I was in a 2vs2 and there was a situation where I had rage and my opponent had 470 health, now I was using f5 that time I used my bot but did 410 damage, since the enemy had 340 resis, and again some other 2vs2 I saw the same situation where the opponent was a blood mage, he raged his plasma cannon and got a descent 530 damage and killed my partner who had 335 resis and 488 health left.

Now I want the cybers and the bounty hunters to have some kind of burst damage, according to the name "cyber" the class should atleast own a burst damage move, they are advanced blah blah...
as for the bounty hunters, there is no burst damage move as well, apart from this the blood mages which are meant to be aggressive, out of technology, they have plasma cannon and bludegon and MoB and game breaking moves and not only bms other classes like tm mercs all have burst damage moves, scaling with technology, why not a skill for these two classes as well.

If someone is objecting massacre to be a burst damage move, mind it that only massacre builds uses claws and no other build does, while for bhs even massacre is no option, and if someone suggests invest in plasma grenadee, then my god im sure you are the worst noob (sorry for the harsh comment, but who wants to invest 100+ tech just to use one single harmless move).
Post #: 1
8/6/2014 8:02:50   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


 If Fire Scythe is counted in there then the BH/CH equivalent would be Cheap Shot.
Post #: 2
8/6/2014 11:11:30   
King Bling
Member

Maybe you dint read what I wrote at the ending, no ch or bh would ever use claws instead of sword only for using a single skill unless the ch is a massacre build, people want more stats and the sword is ideal for it, the other classes tune with the skills like plasma cannon and bunker, this class got no burst damage, and thats my point.
Post #: 3
8/6/2014 13:15:20   
Mother1
Member

Not supported

CH and BH both have cheap shot which is their burst damage move, and massacre is unblockable and get a multiplier bonus that all strength moves (except fireball) gets. Having it get a mulitpier bonus, being unblockable and ignore defense/resist this would overpower massacre once again.
Epic  Post #: 4
8/6/2014 13:21:39   
King Bling
Member

@ Mother1

You have no right to comment if you have'nt even read the post or the reply I gave to Silver Sky, I have already written in the post and have reply again and am replying again that no one is going to change to claws only to use the cheapshot!!!! And for the burst damage I stated properly that like most skills( plasma cannon and bunker) it should scale with a reasonable stat i.e technology, and this would not overpower massacre builds since they scarcely have any tech invested, your point is totally wrong and out of argument.

And for the damage multiplier on the massacre, it is there only to balance the other super moves, i.e supercharge giving health back + ignoring defences of enemy, and surgical strike giving health back + taking half the rage, while massacre does not grant any of those so it pretty obvious that it has to get something, and dont think from the point of massacre builds please, the class is the last in case of balance.

< Message edited by King Bling -- 8/6/2014 13:24:32 >
Post #: 5
8/6/2014 14:21:40   
Remorse
Member

Justifying giving these classes burst damage from simply comparing it to other classes is not good enough.



We have already made terrible steps in making classes too similar and we should not be focusing on making them even more similar.


Each class should have strengths and weaknesses, and for some classes that should include burst damage.



Having said all this if you are able to justify why you think a certain class should have a stronger burst without comparing it to other classes then perhaps I may consider it.

Epic  Post #: 6
8/6/2014 14:29:38   
Mother1
Member

So if the ultimate's themselves are already balanced out and different in several ways, why do we need to give massacre a buff to make it like the others and overpower it?

The other skills have their abilities work they way they do but have their drawbacks as well.

Massacre's draw back is it doesn't have any added effects but it's perk is that it does far more damage due to the damage multiplier.
Surgical strike doesn't get as much damage but has it's added effects to compensate
Supercharge same drawback and perk as Surgical strike.

Now you said it yourself Massacre is balanced with the other two ultimate's thanks to it's damage multiplier. So please explain why does a move that is balanced with the other ultimate's need another perk that will not only remove it's drawbacks but overpower it as well?
Epic  Post #: 7
8/6/2014 16:07:32   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 So first off, mages are inherently bursty because they're like that in almost every game.

Second, TLM lacks any form of burst because surgical strike hits nothing, and the only burst they have is from artillery strike and the built-in auxiliary nuke damage any class gets from high support. This is intended because TLM is not meant to have burst, it is meant to strategically, slowly cripple your enemies until they die.

Third, sure, BM has bursty skills but it doesn't synergize at all with their tree in the current meta and so you can't even consider them viable burst casters that can win fights.

Bunker buster is not a burst skill because it doesn't even hit very high anymore and cannot be used in conjunction with other similarly-scaling skills easily. The real burst in a merc is their strength skills, particularly the double strike-zerker-double strike or maul-zerker combos.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that strength can be a "burst" stat too. Also, being able to burst is thankfully unique to only some classes, otherwise I wouldn't even bother playing ED anymore due to the complete lack of class diversity. TMs typically like to just spellcast you to death in a series of extremely costly but heavy-damage spells, but BH works in a completely different way: they consistently deal moderately high damage to you while lifestealing off of it, rather than dealing massive damage to you but requiring lots of turns in between bursts to heal and charge up for the next skills.

You apparently have the wrong idea of burst entirely. As stated before, there's nothing wrong with strength being a bursty stat. Another thing to note is for a class to be successfully bursty they actually have to be able to win fights with a burst-based build. Support is, according to how you defined bunker buster as a burst skill, logically the stat that gives every class burst because your aux hurts. A lot. That being said, if you really want a "bursty" CH for whatever reason, you could go and make a high support build with high massacre. Massacre, by the way, does stupid amounts of damage even after the nerf.
Epic  Post #: 8
8/6/2014 21:39:45   
King Bling
Member

@Mother1

Idk from where did you get it that I am saying to buff massacre, I am saying the the classes bh and ch should have a burst move.

@Exploding Penguin

That means chs should either go str or massacre? Well I want to use my new bot and I love f5 , cybers the term itself shows how advanced they are and all they get is the grenade to hit the opponent? On the other hand there needs to be a comparision on some basis i.e class itself since to bring equality there has to be a base to compare with you cant pick randomly any thing and start a discussion.

And answer me one thing penguin,I literally see f5 f4 bms now, f5 tact, f5 bh, f5 tms, f5 mercs in 1vs1, not to mention even less of tact mercs having f5 in 1vs1, but you will never see an f5 ch fighting in 1vs1, that is because of the lack of not only the energy gain but they are literally doomed when their energy is drained, not to mention again that f5 returns you back only 80-100 energy back.

Chs cant be f5 for a hell lot of reasons, energy managent, no burst damage at all, only a rank 30+ ch f5.can barely survive out there, even tacts have nice energy gain and bhs for the same reason plus MoB.

This is not empowering ch but its for the better ment , like the boss, chs cannot beat saeva, I myself did during tlm and changed to ch, tried again but dealt too low of damage with high defns, on the upperhand , other classes go hand on hand with their "burst" skills

If you say str is burst, then there should occur no f5's. All would run str. Again the bunker buster is a burst damage since, even with hybrid shield on, normal damage can be 200-300 and rage bunker on a hybrid does pretty descent i.e 400, I have seen myself.

And yes a good point I forgot to add berzerker to the burst damage though it needs str and tunes less with f5.

You people say that all classes should have some disadvantages over other, then there is energy output, to compensate for it, it needs a burst damage move.

< Message edited by King Bling -- 8/6/2014 21:47:28 >
Post #: 9
8/6/2014 21:59:46   
Dual Thrusters
Member

Cyber Hunter is a rogue-themed class, and it would make more sense to have skills that exploit your opponent other than some BLARGSMASHSMASHSMASH skill like bunker or plasma cannon.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 10
8/6/2014 23:39:07   
King Bling
Member

You are talking bout the bhs, there is a word called "cyber" in the class.
Post #: 11
8/6/2014 23:53:43   
Dual Thrusters
Member

It's still a hunter class nonetheless. Being technologically advanced can mean anything like being able to hack your opponent's equipment, or just having fancy gadgets. It doesn't necessarily mean that they are like this guy with their body surrounded with lasers and plasma guns.

< Message edited by Dual Thrusters -- 8/6/2014 23:54:19 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 12
8/7/2014 0:29:44   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator
quote:

And answer me one thing penguin,I literally see f5 f4 bms now, f5 tact, f5 bh, f5 tms, f5 mercs in 1vs1, not to mention even less of tact mercs having f5 in 1vs1, but you will never see an f5 ch fighting in 1vs1, that is because of the lack of not only the energy gain but they are literally doomed when their energy is drained, not to mention again that f5 returns you back only 80-100 energy back.


What the heck is an f5 [insert class name]?

A lot of people regard CH as the best farming class, which I believe is fair ground to say they have the fastest damage output over the shortest number of turns. Which is pretty much the definition of bursting someone/something. While I admit that CH desperately needs a way to fight the longer-battle bosses. Either that, or remake the bosses so that CH stands a fair chance against them, but I'm definitely not gonna support giving all classes viable methods of burst-based builds because the classes are almost identical as of now in terms of playstyle.

quote:

Again the bunker buster is a burst damage since, even with hybrid shield on, normal damage can be 200-300 and rage bunker on a hybrid does pretty descent i.e 400, I have seen myself.

Except:
1. It costs too much energy to even be viable in the current meta. Plus, mercs just burst way better through strength builds now. Bunker buster is a fairly good skill to use in a build, it's just that bulky strength blood commander does everything that a bunker buster build does, except it does it way better and has extra effects like more consistent damage and lifesteal.
2. Burst means tons of damage over a very short period of time. If bunker is a burst skill to you then I could literally just put uber support on any class and use my aux while probably landing a crit with it to deal similar amounts of damage. To burst something, you must be able to combo tons of damage over a span of a very small amount of turns. Either that, or hit absolutely insane amounts of damage in one turn like using massacre or a high-tech 5 focus IA build. Ever since the bunker damage-scaling nerf and bonus crit damage nerf it just doesn't hit nearly as high.
3. This move doesn't combo with anything. It can combo with IA, but that's extremely specific and pertains to a single build that no one even uses now. It could logically combo with high levels of surgical strike except that higher-invested surgical strikes are extremely hard to land when following up a bunker buster because your energy will undoubtedly get drained majority of the time.
Epic  Post #: 13
8/7/2014 1:29:38   
Mother1
Member

@ exploding Penguin

F5 = Focus 5 F4 = Focus 4
Epic  Post #: 14
8/7/2014 1:50:48   
King Bling
Member

Even a lvl 3 bunker buster with descent tech does 300 minimum damage since ignoring defns and crit chances, if you are using bunker on some other build then god help you, and yes its not about just one class, consider other classes too, and what about berzerker, may it need high energy but the effects of it is better than that of massacre, turn wise and nergy wise.
Post #: 15
8/7/2014 12:00:36   
shadow.bane
Member

Well Cheap shot required blades fire scythe required nothing ! ! !

_____________________________

Bane Hallow The Last Shadow Fiend.
AQW Epic  Post #: 16
8/7/2014 12:06:58   
edwardvulture
Member

Well, BH's true burst damage was always multi-shot and stun grenade but both got nerfed several times because of how well it synergized with blood lust and old reflex boost. They never bothered to increase the scaling after removing passive blood lust. And dex bh has been dead for almost a year now.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 17
8/8/2014 12:59:52   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 they have cheap shot and multi
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 18
8/10/2014 4:15:41   
King Bling
Member

@ the bererker killer

no person would rage a multi in a 2vs2 if he wants to kill one with 500 health and 340 resis, cheapshot again needs claws while bunker palsama cannon doesnot
Post #: 19
8/15/2014 13:46:59   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator
quote:

no person would rage a multi in a 2vs2 if he wants to kill one with 500 health and 340 resis, cheapshot again needs claws while bunker palsama cannon doesnot


Rage multi is actually surprisingly efficient in terms of % increase in the amount of damage you'll deal compared to if you didn't rage with your multi.

I don't ever recall being able to do 500 damage in one turn on rage unless it's from something like a max zerker or turn 10+ IA lazor. Most of the time I would use rage multi if it meant doing around 300-350-ish+ damage to both targets.
Epic  Post #: 20
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