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RE: BMs way OPed

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8/20/2014 3:43:09   
.Sir Lazarus.
Member

@ King Bling

Its not abusing the class its making the best of it. If someone wants to be a player that hits hard and dont care too much for defences than thats ok. You must understand that epic duel is one game where too much people abuse the word abuse.

Stop making youself lookin like a crybaby and beat it. Thats what i do.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 51
8/20/2014 6:52:36   
dfo99
Member
 

 if some top 20 1v1 players decide use any same tlm build for example, many others players will copy the build and many players will say that it is OP.
Post #: 52
8/20/2014 7:21:55   
Variation
Member
 

 ^Pretty much. People seem to believe overused = overpowered which certainly isn't true. I see so much players whine something is overpowered when in reality they have a bad build. That certainly applies to the original poster's case.

@doomkiller98: That doesn't mean Blood Mage should get nerfed because he refuses to make a build that also counters them. My build with the items I use counters every class in this game including BC Mercs. Like I've pointed out he suffers from a build problem, not a balance problem. Tech Mages can very well kill Blood Mages along with the other classes with a good build. I played 1v1 as a five focus Tech Mage before (non Super Charge related) and managed pretty well (95%+). ionut 100 also did extremely well as a Tech Mage. Even though I never lost to him he put up some pretty good battles. These are pure examples that show Tech Mages can indeed compete with all of the classes. It all comes down to the build and how you play it. If your build is too easily countered by a particular class then you need to address your build not attack the issue as a balance problem.

< Message edited by Variation -- 8/20/2014 8:28:10 >
Post #: 53
8/20/2014 9:16:36   
Hun Kingq
Member

People complain about Blood Mages being over powered look at the leader boards:

1vs1
1. Mercenary
2. Tech Mage
3. Mercenary
4. Tech Mage
5. Tech Mage

2vs2
1. Tech Mage
2. Tech Mage
3. Tech Mage
4. Tech Mage
5. Mercenary

Juggernaut
1. Tech Mage
2. Tech Mage
3. Tech Mage
4. Mercenary
5. Tech Mage

Plasma Cannon is not balance with Bunker Buster, Bunker Buster gets more damage with less tech.
Tech Mage has malfunction which helps increase the damage of energy based skills or weapons and technician which improves the skills and bots that improves with Tech while the Blood Mage has only one thing that improves only Dex based skills which Plasma Rain is useless in 2vs2 unless there is one player left by than your reflex boost is gone. The Blood Mage has nothing but stats to help get more damage on these skills:
Fireball
Plasma cannon
Bludgeon
Super Charge

Parasite Improves with nothing so blaming that skill for your loss is illogical when the other energy stealing skills can take away more energy in one strike.

The skill that cost the less energy and does the highest damage even at low strength is Bludgeon but everyone pays more attention to the other skills than that one I have even seen Tech Mages having Bludgeon at max, they malfunction, shoot, than bludgeon and if you are still standing than plasma bolt or bot attack. some don't even malfunction because Bludgeon does so much damage and if Blood Mages and Tech Mages just rely on Bludgeon that skill will get nerfed.
Epic  Post #: 54
8/20/2014 10:24:29   
MirageD
Member

correction:

2vs2
2. bounty hunter
AQW Epic  Post #: 55
8/20/2014 11:02:20   
zion
Member

Daily leader boards are about fast wins (generally at low levels) so have to disagree with taking them into account here.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 56
8/20/2014 18:33:56   
Hun Kingq
Member

Look at the top 5 of the leader boards, no Blood Mages in the top 5 at 6:27 PM and yes we have to take the boards into account since they mean fast wins that means it takes the Blood Mage the longest to win the match so it clearly indicates that the Blood Mage class is again being wrongfully accused of being over powered because players can't figure out how to win without energy or a bot.

I have been a Blood Mage since day one of its introduction and many times my energy was at 0 and without the bot I still won the match.
Epic  Post #: 57
8/20/2014 19:17:58   
kosmo
Member
 

 no we shouldn t take into consideration the lbs since those players are just alting low lvls to get wins in faction;
would u spend var to change ur alt into a bm knowing u will quit it in a few days anyhow? i doubt it.
not mentioning that the balance drastically changes trought the lvls.

back to topic i dont agree bm is op, beacause op is something tht isnt beateble and bm can be countered by a few builds.

this said, it doesnt mean the class (aside whit merc) isnt way stronger than all the others;

introducing serius balance updates means comparing the skills numbers between classes, not just adding a casual buff/nerf to a complained skill and hoping for the best, very good examples are static smash, energy parassite, static granade(nerf), blood commander, the 1st battery and many others;

what i want to say is that there may not be many uncounterable builds around, but the balance between classes remains orrible due to the past bad solutions introduced.


Epic  Post #: 58
8/20/2014 20:27:00   
doomkiller98
Member

Blood Mage would ALMOST be perfectly balanced if parasite was given 1 more cool down. Kinda like assimilation :)

~Doom
Post #: 59
8/20/2014 21:44:54   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator
quote:

You cant just counter 1 build. Otherwise your just gonna get destroyed against any other build.


The good players with the highest win rates are the ones that make builds which counter a huge variety of opposing builds, particularly FotM ones. The average players don't. Apart from in-battle judgement calls, this is pretty much the only other thing which differentiates high-skill players from the average joe.

quote:

People complain about Blood Mages being over powered look at the leader boards:


Please never use the leaderboards as an example of what's overpowered and what isn't. I thought that point was established a long time ago.

quote:

Look at the top 5 of the leader boards, no Blood Mages in the top 5 at 6:27 PM and yes we have to take the boards into account since they mean fast wins that means it takes the Blood Mage the longest to win the match so it clearly indicates that the Blood Mage class is again being wrongfully accused of being over powered because players can't figure out how to win without energy or a bot.

I have been a Blood Mage since day one of its introduction and many times my energy was at 0 and without the bot I still won the match.


Since BMs can't get fast wins, that means it takes the longest to win a match. Makes sense. "So it clearly indicates that BM is being wrongfully accused of being overpowered because players can't figure out how to win without energy or a bot." We're supposing everyone at around level 35+ has a bot because if they don't I'd be extremely surprised. I get what you're saying, but:
-The meta has shifted towards energy being essential to have in almost any point in a fight
-Back then, you won with 0 energy. Also note that back then, BM had arguably the strongest passive synergy in the whole game with an obscenely strong damage steroid and passive lifesteal, not to mention extremely reliable damage skills/debuffs that barely cost any energy in the first place. BM back then was BUILT to be able to win fights even while having 0 energy.

Basically, what you stated would be true and would make sense if we were back in delta and passives still existed. But now, the passive-to-active change screwed up the meta.

quote:

Blood Mage would ALMOST be perfectly balanced if parasite was given 1 more cool down. Kinda like assimilation :)

~Doom


If this happens:

Parasite = DoT version of assim.
At that point, I'd think it'd be fair to compare TM and BM as pretty much the EXACTLY same class minus different skill paths and MoB + intimidate instead of a useless fire scythe + malfunction. The classes are already so lacking in core diversity that switching classes will only grant you maybe 2-3 different skills from your previous one. Basically, makes the game more boring than it already is.

IMO they should just make its on-hit damage really weak again before the damage buff. Makes it so the rage it grants on cast is unnoticeable.

< Message edited by Exploding Penguin -- 8/20/2014 21:53:55 >
Epic  Post #: 60
8/21/2014 0:14:08   
Thylek Shran
Member

quote:

People lose to level 38 BM builds when they're 40 and have a good rank because, with every new build, it counters the current FotM build and soon will eventually become the next FoTM build, in which people will again create a new counter build, and thus the cycle repeats.

The problem is Rage which gives an advantage to lower level characters.
Level 38 can gain Rage much faster than level 40 because its Rage pool is
smaller and because high ranked players in average have higher defenses
which will grant more Rage points to the lower level character.


quote:


People complain about Blood Mages being over powered look at the leader boards:
...
...
Look at the top 5 of the leader boards, no Blood Mages in the top 5 at 6:27 PM

Why you did not also post their character level ? About 90% of the characters in the
leaderboards are low level characters. Most of those TMs are around level 18 which
seems to be a good level for a very efficient Overload and Multi combo (dex builds).
There are not many low level BMs around and a maxed Energy Parasite is something
that only works for high leveled characters that have enough skill points. As example
a level 7 Parasite is often not very powerfull but a maxed one is. Pretty similar to the
Ultimates Massacre and Super Charge.


quote:

Tech Mage has malfunction which helps increase the damage of energy based skills or weapons and technician which improves the skills and bots that improves with Tech while the Blood Mage has only one thing that improves only Dex based skills which Plasma Rain is useless in 2vs2 unless there is one player left by than your reflex boost is gone. The Blood Mage has nothing but stats to help get more damage on these skills:

Regarding level 40:
Technician is a descent skill for non dex builds but Malfunction is weak today because
support is weak and because it can be countered by a low level Energy Shield and
Technican easily. Basically Malfunction has its most and often only use in NPC duels now.
Also for the popular CH Strenght/Poison/Massacre/Malf build that is forcing the opponent
to counter the attacks fast and playing defensively. This is another reason why BMs are
that strong because they have a more usefull skill than Malfunction which is Intimidate.
Intimidate can only be countered by Merc, TaM, Assault Bot and maybe some other core
while every class can counter Malfunction and Smoke Screen.


quote:

Parasite Improves with nothing so blaming that skill for your loss is illogical when the other energy stealing skills can take away more energy in one strike.

Which does mean that it cannot be debuffed which is an advantage for BMs.
Assimilation can be debuffed by BM but cannot be buffed by TM. But buffs for skills do
not work well nowadays if you cannot counter also a debuff with it at the same time
because you have to use a turn for it where you lack doing damage or HP/EP
regeneration while your opponent can deal damage and gain rage points.


quote:

Blood Mage would ALMOST be perfectly balanced if parasite was given 1 more cool down. Kinda like assimilation :)

It would help alot. Also a small nerf to its conversion factor (1.5) as EP gain is very high.
We should remember that its 2 energy flow skills in 1 move when being compared to TM.



< Message edited by Thylek Shran -- 8/21/2014 0:18:38 >
DF Epic  Post #: 61
8/21/2014 3:35:50   
  Grixus Faldor



 Rather than offering constructive criticism, this thread exists on the misguided premise that the developers exhibit favouritism and that the Mage line of classes are overpowered. There are no numbers with which this could be argued beyond any reasonable doubt and there is nothing grounded in any sort of mathematical computation evident in the first post. I am locking this thread accordingly.

Please familiarise yourselves with the stipulations regarding constructive criticism before re-creating this thread in future.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 62
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