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RE: =ED= September 19th, 2014 - Waves of Wrath Gear

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9/20/2014 8:28:21   
Ranloth
Banned


 Yes. Whenever you Strike for the second time, the effect is removed and you get boost equal to the amount of turns you waited. Then it has four turn cooldown after using the core. (just tested)

< Message edited by Trans -- 9/20/2014 8:30:28 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 51
9/20/2014 8:29:31   
Remorse
Member

^ Alright that is good to know,
What about strikes from say using a debuff?

Does that consume the stacks?
Epic  Post #: 52
9/20/2014 8:30:57   
Ranloth
Banned


 Nope. It has to be the Strike button. Nothing else is boosted.
AQ Epic  Post #: 53
9/20/2014 8:34:03   
Remorse
Member

^

Hmm, so basically it would be extremely easy for STR builds to reach 124% bonus damage without even needing to stopping consecutively attacking with STR based moves,

With a combination of Str based skills, guns etc.


What if the stacks were consumed on every strike type move? Slightly adding to the damage of that move.



What this would mean is STR builds would have much less options to stall the plague warm up before striking again and they would have to choose between,
Not consecutively damaging the opponent, or not receiving the maximum damage from the plague core?


I think this would be much healthier for game-play.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 9/20/2014 8:36:13 >
Epic  Post #: 54
9/20/2014 8:39:47   
Ranloth
Banned


 That would only cause more harm than good. Likes of Bludgeon would get multiplied by up to *1.24, and that'd be a lot. Additive boost would still make them ridiculously powerful, as well as any other move - think Zerker, Double Strike, etc. Some moves would get more bang for a buck, such as Frenzy - which works off total damage + ignores some defenses, etc.

It's exactly why it only works on Strike, which is just fixed 124% damage. It wouldn't be difficult to use the core, and wait until the 4th turn, to get maximum damage - you use Bot (many use Black Abyss) *108%*, then perhaps Gun *116%*, and lastly your most powerful skill *124%*. (numbers in asterisk show the damage boost at that turn, not boosted damage for each attack)

< Message edited by Trans -- 9/20/2014 8:41:14 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 55
9/20/2014 8:48:03   
Remorse
Member

^True.

Though if the initial bonus started below 100% then I think it would be acceptable.


Lets say the damage bonus started at -16% and worked it's way up to +16% in 4 turns (4 turn max)

It would be extremely hard for STR builds to hit +16% damage which can be given to any strike based move, without consuming these stacks earlier or stopping consecutively attacking.


Then this core would become highly strategic tool which in order for it to be effective for STR builds they would actually have to use a build/ strategy that doesn't consecutively attack in order for them to receive the high bonus which can be synergised with other STR moves.


Thus some STR builds won't revolve entirely around consistently attacking, and the play-style won't be so toxic to the game.


And if they do reach turn 4 by not using strike based moves they will be rewarded greatly however they can also be countered easily.




< Message edited by Remorse -- 9/20/2014 8:51:13 >
Epic  Post #: 56
9/20/2014 8:52:09   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 If you triggered it with strike based moves there would be no downside to most 85% damage drains. Just wait three turns and your back up to an acceptable damage on skills that are supposed to have a low damage. Then there is everything Trans said.

Also if you watch my latest update video I did show all of the promo gear and I'll gladly show it to you in game if we can set up a meeting
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 57
9/20/2014 8:53:25   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

nope, that's just a big nerf to the whole thing, so what if you want the 8% bonus and to strike the next turn, wait you can't because the bonus starts below the 100% then gradually ascends. *flawed logic
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 58
9/20/2014 9:02:42   
Remorse
Member

^ Well that is the point really,

I would prefer this core not be viable for builds that consecutively attack, so that perhaps we would have some actual variety/ strategy in games.


@OWA
quote:

If you triggered it with strike based moves there would be no downside to most 85% damage drains. Just wait three turns and your back up to an acceptable damage on skills that are supposed to have a low damage. Then there is everything Trans said.


This is a great overestimation of it's power, don't forget that in order for you to get past 3 turns you need to not use any other strike based move that would consume it a well as it costing 100 energy.


Also so what if a move that deals 85% base can hit 100%+ with this core?

In 2 separate turns in the current system you would get the same effect anyway,

Eg. 85% attack one turn, then a 115% then next would be the same as 100% one turn then a 100% the next turn.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 9/20/2014 9:04:44 >
Epic  Post #: 59
9/20/2014 9:08:39   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

perhaps what you seek is not for a promo core, not everyone thinks like you do, they want their investment to help them but not limit them, your suggestion is doing just that.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 60
9/20/2014 9:59:46   
Remorse
Member

^ You are right,

Not everyone thinks like I do,

I just wish for the game to return to a level of which I actually enjoyed the game.

That's all I am trying to do really, return the games former glory, in the eyes of those who preferred the older ED.
Epic  Post #: 61
9/20/2014 10:02:22   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

i have been here since the very begining and i think your version of ED is a bit twisted, not like the old days at all
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 62
9/20/2014 10:03:50   
Remorse
Member

^ Perhaps, but then again, we can't exactly return it to an older version.


I am just making assumptions on what made the older version's elements fun.
And then trying to apply this to the newer ED.

The biggest of differences I think is viable variety, it's a lot more smaller now then ever before despite all the cores and extra classes.

how is this so?

Perhaps it's the domination of uncounterable spam builds and lack of strategy.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 9/20/2014 10:06:25 >
Epic  Post #: 63
9/20/2014 10:13:15   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

older version restricts the development of content, hence the upgrade to omega

what you are saying is that you prefer no strategy because that's exactly what the older ED is, a mindless button mashing game
i much prefer the latest modifications they have made to the game, now the battles are much more enjoyable
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 64
9/20/2014 10:30:03   
Remorse
Member

^ I completely disagree,


What ED now is mindless button mashing, at least my opinion.

Older ED and I am talking beta was much more strategy and build based compared to now.

I obviously can't be the only one to think like this either, because I know most people who have quit have agreed the game has gotten worse.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 9/20/2014 10:31:47 >
Epic  Post #: 65
9/20/2014 10:31:54   
2046808
Member

It's difficult to please everyone. Unfortunately, ED has no intentions in going back and will keep moving forward.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 66
9/20/2014 10:32:52   
Remorse
Member

^ Of coarse and neither do I intend to make it go back, I just wish for the the fun elements of the past to return in the new ED.

Such as larger variety, and creativity, as well as a more focus on strategy for winning rather then execution of an effortless builds minus luck.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 9/20/2014 10:34:59 >
Epic  Post #: 67
9/20/2014 10:36:34   
Ranloth
Banned


 Previous phases had equally as much variety between classes, and everyone went for top build for each class. Each phase had its own overpowered build, and it wasn't much different to what it is now... People really over-exaggerate how creative previous phases were, which they really weren't - only F2P players had to adapt special strategies to barely stand a chance against Varium players, and yet, there weren't many of these players.

Strength abuse was around since Beta, same with Support. Dex and Tech was also a thing for TMs. It's almost the same, apart from adapting cores concept, no passives, and more energy control.

Regardless, previous phases had a lot of restrictions in terms of development and many changes had to happen. This isn't really up for discussion, since Charfade has already explained it in-depth on Reddit, as well as Titan covering it few weeks ago, in the Q&A. It would've been a "dead game" back then, since no more content would be able to be released - that's why everything had to be re-coded, to lower the amount of space it takes, and then allow more things to be added.
AQ Epic  Post #: 68
9/20/2014 10:49:44   
Remorse
Member

^ Agian,

Like I said I don't necessarily want them to return the old game, I just want some of the older fun elements to return.


Yes their were dominant builds in the old days, but they were counter-able and actually incorporated strategy into fights.


It seems these days the obvious move is just that obvious, and repetitive builds with hard to counter luck enforcing strategies.

At least STR builds in the old days had to mix up their strategy based on what their opponent did...


These days it means nothing, you simply rinse repeat the same thing with little reaction or adaption.



quote:

People really over-exaggerate how creative previous phases were


I don't think so, I don't think it is a coincidence so many people dislike the game changes,

It can't be pure fluke that so many people have had the same opinion.

If it was an exaggeration then why would I be wasting my time on these forums,

I have posted over 3000 times on this forums almost all of them trying to improve the game, their must be some reasoning behind, heck I am even unsure of it sometimes.




I think people are actually underestimating how much better the mechanics were back then, and unfortunately this includes the devs.



I do believe though that we can make the game have better variety and mechanics, infact their was a small glimpse of this when omega was first released.


For multiple reasons variety just seemed to fall apart and I do believe it is achievable.



< Message edited by Remorse -- 9/20/2014 10:53:36 >
Epic  Post #: 69
9/20/2014 10:58:26   
Bionic Bear
Helpful!
quote:

At least STR builds in the old days had to mix up their strategy based on what their opponent did...

Do people not use def/res buffs anymore?
You make it sound like the people that str builds fight are mindless fools who cower in fear while their opponent wails away at them. As for this:
quote:

I think people are actually underestimating how better the mechanics were back then, and unfortunately this includes the devs.

Varium was horridly overpowered, the game was entirely P2W, and there were many band-aid fixes to things, such as agility.
quote:

This isn't really up for discussion, since Charfade has already explained it in-depth on Reddit, as well as Titan covering it few weeks ago, in the Q&A. It would've been a "dead game" back then, since no more content would be able to be released - that's why everything had to be re-coded, to lower the amount of space it takes, and then allow more things to be added.

The game was full, so it had to be recoded. There's no going back.
Post #: 70
9/20/2014 11:05:42   
Remorse
Member

quote:

Do people not use def/res buffs anymore?
You make it sound like the people that str builds fight are mindless fools who cower in fear while their opponent wails away at them. As for this:


Yes, but it is much less effective now and viable variety suffers as a result.

< Message edited by Battle elf -- 9/20/2014 13:13:17 >
Epic  Post #: 71
9/20/2014 11:23:37   
theholyfighter
Member

I find it funny of how Static Charge was fixed.

They missed out the Cooldown.

Static Charge per 4 rounds grants about 200-230 energy.

Assimilation, Static Smash, and Static Grenade easily takes away all of that, not even mentioning they get some of it as theirs.

They all share the same Cooldown, thus meaning a CH is just generating energy for the enemy.

Maybe lower the Cooldown by 1 and it might do.
AQW Epic  Post #: 72
9/20/2014 11:26:31   
Remorse
Member

^ But they also have EMP.


I don't think they should balance according to other skills all the time, they also need to factor other skills the class has.
Epic  Post #: 73
9/20/2014 11:28:11   
Ranloth
Banned


 At the same time, EMP has 3 turn cooldown - as well as Atom Smasher - unlike others which do two things at once (albeit weaker) at a higher cooldown. It wasn't really missed, but so far, intended. If it needs another buff, it will be tweaked. There's player feedback and balance tracker, and one day isn't enough for the latter. *SC had 4 turn cooldown since few months ago, when it was changed from 3 turns*
AQ Epic  Post #: 74
9/20/2014 11:49:41   
theholyfighter
Member

I've done 20+ fights to test it out.

Each time I used Static Charge I got 230 energy return.

I had an EMP that takes 410 energy at a 140 energy cost.

So if I want to drain and take I end up with 90 energy left.

Comparing EMP to Static Grenade,

EMP has an energy cost for a higher drain while SG is free of cost with a lower drain, However, it has an energy feedback effect as

well, which getting an extra cooldown doesn't make up for that.

It's sort of difficult about how I feel and what I see about the mechanics; perhaps you guys can actually test it out.

From what I've currently experienced, CHs did get more space for actually use skills in a battle, but just not enough.



< Message edited by theholyfighter -- 9/20/2014 11:50:30 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 75
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