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RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II

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5/1/2015 13:47:23   
G.t.h
Member

I don't really understand why people think that "Fleshweaver" is immoral and all, well yeah you eat a soul and all that, but there are also more "evil" classes, such as Doomknight, Necromancer, Deathknight, so far I didn't meet any kind of "nice" Necromancer or deathknight.
AQW  Post #: 51
5/1/2015 13:50:22   
gakorogirl
Member

@G.t.h. Necromancers are evil, but we didn't have to do anything evil to get the class. And Doomknight isn't canon.

And what'dya mean "no nice Deathknights" I thought Caran and Diawe were quite nice.
DF AQW  Post #: 52
5/1/2015 13:52:54   
G.t.h
Member

Well that could be just artix's paladin armor black friday version. *cough*
AQW  Post #: 53
5/1/2015 15:08:27   
god of chaos
Member

@G.T.h. Vayle, Caran, Diawe. Sepulchure helps you take down Dragon Drakath and SUPPOSEDLY sent you the letter informing you on the cloak scrap. Yes. I said it once, and I will say it again. The good doom knight is out there feeling betrayed by the Hero, who utterly FAILED to be the incorruptible paragon he was supposed to be. Shame on you heroes!

Now, once we are done with that, it doesn't mean the Hero will do it WILLINGLY. I had a theory on how this would happen once. We get possessed by Roirr. We do it while we are POSSESSED. Having spent quite a bit of time fighting inside him and then having eaten Aegis, we emerge as a flesh weaver of sorts. Our skills are trained in each quest as we remain possessed by Roirr. Or maybe two or more skills in the same quest. That is how I IMAGINE it to happen, therefore the Hero remaining good and the price being paid.
Post #: 54
5/1/2015 15:41:42   
Brasca123
Member

@above. your theory is the only one i think that makes sense for the hero to continue being a good guy

so, we talked a lot about FW, but what about SS? do you guys have any idea on what skills could be nice for it? i'm somewhat behind on the storyline, so i'm not sure what a soulsmith does, but i think it'd be nice if we could infuse aegis into our weapon and hit the enemy with a big ice hammer or something

i just hope there are no more blacksmith levels added because of SS, training it to 35 was already bothersome, i would not want it to go even higher
AQ DF  Post #: 55
5/1/2015 15:54:38   
lightriftwalker122
Member

@ VJ i didnt mean that . this is what i meant : i wasnt sure how to explain what i wanted to say that is why i wrote it that way. i am not sure how to explain ideas for FleshWeaver because it would come off as violent even though i dont want it to be violent. but the red stuff would be a good idea.

< Message edited by lightriftwalker122 -- 5/1/2015 15:56:30 >
Post #: 56
5/1/2015 15:58:21   
WornDogma
Member

I would not mind soulsmith adding more levels to blacksmithing maybe even to 50 since it's a nice and even. Also if it was implemented it would most likely have a different training method to regular blacksmithing. I personally don't think soul smithing converts well into a class considering it's forging based.Maybe some Grandmaster super soulsmith with a powerful soul ally could forge giant elemental weapons mid-battle and lob them at the enemy but that seems far-fetched.


If soulsmithing were to be a extension to regular smithing I can just imagine forging a base longsword with Aegis' color scheme and runes on it.


(side note: Is the hero a good enough blacksmith to make a living out of it.Imagine when they are rank 35 they can for level 40 metal weapons with relative ease.
Post #: 57
5/1/2015 16:01:30   
Almighty Agathor
Member

quote:

Sorry,but it seems you just want Fleshweaver to re-use skills from the classes that would be locked once you get it


Actually, I was just spinning ideas for class moves. If that makes you feel the way you do, good for you

_____________________________

Let me ask you, does a machine such as yourself ever experience fear?!
DF AQW  Post #: 58
5/1/2015 16:27:14   
Alm Nullamors
Member

Yeah, SoulSmith could also be used to revive blacksmithing. That does sound like a nice idea.

_____________________________

The Dark DragonLord Rises...
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 59
5/1/2015 16:45:40   
monstervet
Member

sorry about that confusion with the me exclaiming "
Language!" you'll understand once you see the new avengers movie, i feel like it will be my new catchphrase, possibly, until the end of the year possibly december....

@Brasca123

What???? i love blacksmithing it is one of my favorite minigames, sure now its a bit bland but its still quite fun, perhaps a more complex version of it then for SS?
Or we do the blacksmith minigame to get the items needed to upgrade SS, you know after a certain number of levels you get the item needed to learn a new SS skill?

SS has potential, i said it before i know, but it truly does, like i said it feels like enhancing and fortifying our state of mind, body and weapons, if it is a CLASS, i would guess most skills will be buffs.

It would make sense a bunch of buffs maybe a DoT or two, a finishing move..... would make sense because they can bind elemental spirits in weapons.

Still we'd have to wait i know we're discussing it but it would take a while to implement ingame, Tomix is working on AoT and there is this whole story unraveling, perhaps once we get closer to the end of the year we will learn more, get a better idea.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 60
5/1/2015 17:33:14   
god of chaos
Member

Maybe we use Aegis powers to craft various weapons. Or maybe we take aid from other elemental spirits as well. In battle each skill is used by calling forth a weapon forged this way (these are already set and do not depend on any weapons you might have or forge, as I assume it is beyond the game's current programming to do ir) and using its effect on the enemy. I am imagining a class with low to moderate damage but with each skill having a second gimmick such as a stun, poison, burn or the like. Some of them might not work with one another though such as a freeze or burn at the same time.
Post #: 61
5/1/2015 20:24:30   
Glerax
Member

In my opinion, Soulsmith's moves will probably be something along the lines of creating some sort of weapon off the bat. Say you use "Skill A", and you basically create a blue hammer, then hit your opponent with it. Skill B, you create a scythe and slice your opponent.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 62
5/1/2015 20:40:06   
ergotth
AQW Lore-titician


 so...if Soul Weavers are like the Quincies from Bleach...SoulSmiths will be like the green lanterns xD?
DF AQW  Post #: 63
5/1/2015 21:45:02   
Christophoses
AQW Tester
&
Lore Adept


 Can we please not go back into the whole "evil/immoral" discussion. It has already been established that you will have the choice to consume Aegis's soul or not. Don't be a Necromancer a bring things back that should stay dead.

I don't think Soulsmith is being considered at this time. The big demand was for the Fleshweaver class, so that's probably what the staff are pondering over right now.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 64
5/1/2015 22:17:40   
Azan
Member

We don't even know if SoulSmiths are fighters at all. For all we know they may have great abilities in creating weapons, but no special ultra secret ancestral technique in wielding them... maybe SoulSmithing is just blacksmithing with souls.

Would still be awesome to have SoulSmithing as an evolution for blacksmithing. I hope the SoulForge will open one day!
Post #: 65
5/1/2015 22:35:34   
VJ
Member

best post that best says it all why we don't need and should not have have this class:

megakyle777
quote:

At the end of the day, I think the cost too high, in both development terms (needing to make all the needed armour skills and animations, a way to lock off three classes and a ally from two different city versions, presumably a cutscene to emphasize how much of a jerk you are, etc) gameplay cost (Since it's canon it needs to be constantly refereed to in all future releases with appropriate reactions requiring two sets of dialogue in some cases adding to development, not to mention you are locking off three tier 3 classes for one tier 3 class) and moral cost (Can you really justify eating Ageis for power? Dude, just absorb your doom weapon or something, worked for Catiff.)


I put in bold my favorite part.
Post #: 66
5/1/2015 22:48:17   
Miran
Friendly!


 Please add my voice to the chorus of those shouting a big "NO, DO NOT WANT!" in regards to Fleshweaver.
If this ever comes to pass, I will not accept any blame put onto me by players or staff for "This is what you asked for." No, I did not, but I can't do more than voice my opinion here, hopefully fiercely enough without becoming obnoxious.

I'm interested in seeing more classes explored, be it as a choice for players or for NPC's, but not at any cost.
I'd much rather see the staff's hard work put into something I can enjoy using without feeling unworthy of any term approaching the word "hero".
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 67
5/1/2015 23:00:54   
VJ
Member

@Miran
nicely said :)

Not to mention that they still have a ton of work to do such as bringing up the rest of the armor to date with the new system and having to take so much time just to recode everything just for one class is a waste of time among reasons already stated.

Post #: 68
5/1/2015 23:02:09   
Almighty Agathor
Member

I still feel that they should add FW to the game. It wont affect any of you fellow players that don't go through with killing Aegis for the class. If the staff wants to add it, let them. Its a new class, after all. And for those that dont use SW or MSW, it gives a class that they would most likely use.

On another note, IF Soulsmith is brought to DF, it sounds like a sweet idea, IF its a class where you bring up a different weapon with each skill, focusing on buffs, enemy nerfs, and even some DoT's. Maybe even a defensive boost too. A final would be cool, and, even a multi, and a double attack. Sort of like DmK's Break move. Not exact, different animation of course, and obviously weaker.. But to have a skill similar to break, except lowering stun resistance would be cool. Maybe weaken the enemy to a certain element, or even work to lower enemy accuracy X% per successful hit
DF AQW  Post #: 69
5/1/2015 23:05:12   
Azan
Member

100% agreed with Miran.

And for those of you who have no problem with killing Aegis, I'll just drop this here.
Post #: 70
5/1/2015 23:16:28   
Alethral
Member

Hi everyone.

I've seen a lot of comments here saying things like "I wish it didn't have to be Aegis," or "If that's the cost, I'd rather it be non-canon."

I'm afraid that there's a fundamental flaw here. You undervalue the price of power.

Roirr gained the ability to Fleshweave over the dead bodies of his entire village. He presumably consumed his SoulAlly's soul, and has used the most vile of betrayals to fuel his strength.

The reason, I think, that such a decision would HAVE to be canon is that choosing that path of darkness is something irreversible, a decision that shows that the hero is willing to sacrifice anything or anyone in order to gain power.

If you choose to gain Aegis, revel in your power, but know that such a decision MUST taint you, and all interactions you have in the future (they're called SOUL allies for a reason).

If you choose to remain loyal to your SoulAlly, remember that you chose your friends over power.


TL;DR:
The act of betrayal that is killing and eating your SoulAlly is too huge to just be brushed away into a corner. Whatever your motives, something that important can't be trivialized and pushed into an alternate dimension.
Post #: 71
5/1/2015 23:23:22   
VJ
Member

No disrespect to anyone whatsoever but Azan I don't think they really care.
however that's besides the point. it also comes down to them having to do so much for one class that actually a very few want and those that do not want it has give a far better reason/s behind why it is a bad idea.

there is more to adding any armor to the game than others realize and as I also said before they have a ton on their plate as it is and don't need the extra load for some armor only a few actually want.

its like I also said when it came to the class that has a bunch of armor skills from different classes and the team had to add a quest to why it was a bad idea and I believe this is just as bad as that one was.

people can't always get what they want, more so if it derails the things they already are doing and things that are more important than trying to code in this armor.

if the class ever became in game then many other classes should be locked away as well.
Pally class, Dragon Lord, ect as those are for the Hero.

also the Dragon should be locked as well.
after all there should be a MASSIVE price to pay for murder not just losing access to two armors and losing their soul ally.
the hero is from that point on evil and should be treated as such meaning no longer able to do some quests and lose access to 'good' and light weapons while having a -500 to light and good.

< Message edited by VJ -- 5/1/2015 23:29:35 >
Post #: 72
5/1/2015 23:41:11   
W.A.R.Z.
Member

Here is a compilation of all of the negatives I've seen about the inclusion of FleshWeaver, along with mine and others

arguments against those negatives. (I don't mean to be disrespectful so please tell me if I am)
BTW I'm all for FleshWeaver

In general negatives (With arguments against them):
Irreversible decision (Permanent choices would force you to think it through so that you don't regret it later)
More difficult for staff to make releases that would involve Aegis, possibly deterring them from major inclusions of him (Considering all the revamps and how there are now passives and artifacts, I don't think that the staff would be detered by that)
Impossible to have every class ("Having your cake and eating it too")
Detracting staff's attention away from storylines and more important things

Consuming Aegis negatives:
Lose Aegis
Be "evil" (Gives you some form of a morality choice so that you can be "evil" if you want)
Can't use SW, MSW, and ChaosWeaver (As of my knowledge there aren't any plans on a SoulSmith)
Can't use Baltael's Aventail artifact power (It still has good stats)

Not Consuming Aegis negatives:
Can't use FleshWeaver (Same negative as if the class isn't made in the first place)

Tell me if you can think of anything that isn't on here so that I can put it here.

@VJ locking away Paladin (DeathKnight by extension), DragonLord (DragonAmulet Perk), Dragon, Two elements of weapons, book 1 Aegis, book 3 Aegis, SoulWeaver, MasterSoulWeaver, ChaosWeaver (A DC class), being hated by everyone everywhere, losing access to "some quests" (if all of these restrictions were true we couldn't work with Artix (we wouldn't be able to have him show the way to Zorbak for teaching Necromancer too) for example, making Book 1 unbeatable if we played the story out of order), taking away hard earned Destiny weapons, taking away the book 1 reward weapons, taking away the Archknight reward weapons, losing Ascended ChickenCow, ShadowHunter, making any quest were you fight light monster impossible, etc, etc, - To compensate for ALL OF THAT you would have to make FleshWeaver tier 4 - which can't happen.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 73
5/1/2015 23:54:19   
VJ
Member

@W.A.R.Z.
I feel that would be the price to pay for such actions.
But I guess the DA perk such as the DL would be to much since it comes from paying real money into the game.
as to everything else that's what the AC is for. gives you access to the DK & Necro armor.

Book one shouldn't be affected all that much. the baby dragon lock would be for pet & guest dragons, however titan quest since it is story driven is fine, however locked in with evil(replaces dark element) and no way to change it.

if not locking out the weapons then the -500 should stick.

as to making it a class four, nope keep it as class three.

this would make players think very carefully when it comes to this choice as it cannot be undone.

< Message edited by VJ -- 5/2/2015 0:05:03 >
Post #: 74
5/2/2015 0:12:17   
W.A.R.Z.
Member

@VJ I don't want to get into an argument, but here are some points
Sek-Duat would be impossible - thus affecting book 1
Armor Closet doesn't let you train armors - only equip them (even then you have to pay)
You would still lose 6 classes (half of which require paying)
You would most likely more than 10 guests
An entire feature of the game (the dragon, its namesake no less)
So many sidequests
Yet it still wouldn't have enough strength to overcome these flaws so it would be worse then not having the class being made, you could have it but you would be unable to beat the story even with optimized stats, the best guests you can find, and all the luck in the world, making it not so much a choice as a self inflicted punishment.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 75
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