RE: =ED= May 19th, 2015 - Epic Artist Showcase: Deuce


	Home \| Login \| Register \| Help \| Play

RE: =ED= May 19th, 2015 - Epic Artist Showcase: Deuce

Logged in as: Guest

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Artix Entertainment Games] >> [EpicDuel] >> EpicDuel General Discussion >> RE: =ED= May 19th, 2015 - Epic Artist Showcase: Deuce

Page 3 of 3

Forum Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

5/22/2015 9:44:40

T.600
Member

I posted this in response to your post on FB, the beserker killer. I do side with Machaar personally, I think that you're too biased towards varium players and high ranks. For instance, in your above post you say that ''the only fun advantage varium has his bombs'' is invalid since varium players are entitled to promos, such as the kartherax one, which remained OP for a while. That's not to say that I like the current weapon system. I support the return of original enhancements, where each weapon had different stats and could be enhanced with credits or varium. A revamped version of this would be great and certainly support some of the ideas contained in my FB post which I've copied below.

It's very true that binaries such as good/bad, heaven/hell are necessary for a state of equilibrium to exist anywhere. Some of the discourse on atheist satanism explores this in an interesting manner, although that's fairly irrelevant to this matter.

You are right that there will be winners and losers, always, and that equality is never an achievable paradigm within any context. I think using the US political system (especially its theoretical framework) would make your claim much more coherent, since now you are basically asking for there to be massive power rifts in your idealistic version of the game.

The key notion from the US political system that interests me here is that of the ''level playing field''. Basically where everyone has equal opportunities, but those who work hardest succeed most. This ideology allows for these inevitable power gaps.

How can this be applied to the game? There should be an initial level playing field; battles should be decided mostly by smarts, but luck is always everpresent in life, so it shouldn't be completely eradicated. Cheating needs to be fairly sanctioned. Hard work should be rewarded. Players who pay do deserve an advantage, certainly, but non-variums should also have the resources to succeed IF they work hard and/or play smart. This was definitely epitomised (somewhat) in gamma, where enhancements had high credit prices, and a more convenient varium option.

Balance-wise, this could be applied interestingly. Imagine if no skills had any requirements, and nearly everything was OP? Would this create a level playing field where those who are the smartest/hardest working could thrive and create builds? Who knows?

That's just my two cents. My ideas can be elaborated further, if you require any clarification.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 51

5/22/2015 10:15:36

The berserker killer
Member

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I might come off a bit biased towards high ranks but really I am just biased towards hard working players and paying players. I believe both types of individuals should under have an advantage not just in PVP but in the game as a whole. Now, granted, hard working and paying players had this advantage in the past and still have an advantage however its on a steady decline. The promos which you have named are returning, along with the cores, content that hardworking and paying players have worked on such as flags were removed and those same hard working players are being semi-punished for their ranks.

quote:

How can this be applied to the game

Well it has already been applied to the game in previous phases:

1) When weapons were different, that was balance and that was fun. Now they're the same, which is the equivalent meaning equality and now they're boring. Thats an undeniable fact. Varium players had an advantage but free players could also partake.
2) When promos were rare. Some players had items/weapons that most players didn't. Even if it was just cosmetics, that was balance. Now promos are seasonal, granting everyone access to the same content, which is borderline equality. This, also, is an undeniable fact that that change has brought about boring. Varium players had an advantage, but there were still tons of weapons for free players to partake.
3) The arcade system that utilized battle tokens and encouraged PVP to win a certain cosmetic. Varium players also had an advantage in this since they had an easier access to battle tokens but free players could also partake. That was balance. Now the arcade system is click a button, get a prize. Sure Varium players can buy arcade tokens but the use of arcade tokens compared to battle tokens cant be compared.

The point is, the game had already achieved this ideology. Do I support the fact that when we had these features the game was much more fun since they allowed Varium players to have an advantage, provided something to do, and also let free players get in on the fun without discriminating against them too harshly? Yes. I also believed that the only time that this got out of hand was back in gamma. Do I believe its morally okay that someone had to suffer (non variums)? No. Was it fun though and did devs do everything they could to limit the suffering while keeping interesting features that granted varium an advantage? Yes, and thats a fact I can not deny.

quote:

...equality is never an achievable paradigm within any context

It's not that equality isn't achievable. It absolutely is. Its just boring.

Edit: Lets be honest for a second here. If you guys weren't trying to devalue ranks, or if you were at least trying to be fair, you would've made underdog mode affect Primary Dmg, Gun Damage, Bot, Defense, and Resistance instead of affecting stats directly. Thats a no brainer and you guys definitely know that in its current stateUnderDog Mode is not fair and I extremely disappointed with some of the community who will stand by and say its fair just because they're winning more matches when:

1) you haven't even put in the time to power up your character
And
2) you dont even want to put in the time to power up your character.

When something was OP in the past, I have always seen the individual using that OP concept come on forums and alert them that its either OP or needs some tweaking. Now, no ones saying a word. That is absolutely sad and it is repulsive to know that some of you are idly standing by doing nothing while you call yourselves a part of this community.

< Message edited by The berserker killer -- 5/22/2015 10:23:45 >

Epic

Post #: 52

5/22/2015 10:36:56

Ranloth
Banned

Uh, Underdog Mode was designed to indirectly nerf Ranks - it's intentional that it does that, and not a sheer coincidence.

Also, appreciate all the feedback on P2W vs. F2P but we are not going back, and there's really no point arguing about that. What was fun for some, wasn't fun for others. Removal of P2W was a financial decision and not a random one - these often have months, if not years, worth of research behind them, to predict whether it'll have a positive or negative impact on the playerbase, financial status, and the game itself. ALL changes to the game are done on this cost-benefit analysis, and not thought up on the spot. We are NOT going back to P2W and there's really nothing that will be done to bring it back, even if partially - it's gone for the most part; only advantage is cosmetic and time, over farming Credits / waiting a year or so.

If you want to keep discussing about P2W being better for the players / game / etc., feel free to do so - but we won't bring it back. It was a decision made by the AE too, and not just the Devs. Going from P2W to F2P is a huge change, and it wasn't done on a whim but there was research done on it, forecasting of the sales, etc. - it's a business decision and not a Dev one. If you still hold hope for P2W to be back anywhere close to how it was (and not how Varium is now), don't.

Apologise if this sounds a bit blunt or harsh, but it's the truth. P2W is mostly gone, and it's not coming back.

Epic

Post #: 53

5/22/2015 10:42:31

T.600
Member

I agree with point 1) for sure. Weapons do need to be different. The fact that there's no difference (besides looks) between Azrael and Apprentice Staff is a massive disgrace. Having stat requirements on weapons also made all players think more before making a build. I have mentioned this before in a livestream to Charfade, she replied; ''there are advantages and disadvantages to both systems''.

As for point 2), going by what the testers/staff have been saying, they seem tentative about making any new cores or rare items, even rare missions. I don't mind the seasonal promos returning for credits the following year, but they definitely need to make more rares. Obviously, I can see that they don't want to ''waste'' any content and ensure that it can be recycled as much as possible, but rares are something that I have always looked forward to in AE games, especially ED. They definitely need to make more rare promos, and rare mission events, this will encourage people to play too. The rare promos shouldn't be exclusively in the 10k packages either, they should be available in-game, like in previous phases. It also makes the game less predictable, and even thematically speaking, it's more appropriate. For example, Ranloth says that the hardocore missions won't ever go rare, but the rewards such as the Bunny Mutation are labelled rare and Easter-themed. They should go rare.

In regards to 3), they should never have removed battle tokens. It totally killed the achievement system. The old arcade system was good. I remember winning the assault bot and feeling delighted, back in gamma.

Equality isn't even achievable in the context of this game. Equal battles would= never-ending battles. I.e a constant deadblock and perpetual state of parity.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 54

5/22/2015 11:06:47

Lord Machaar
Member

ED started as a pay to win game, everyone knows, everyone played the game knew that a non-varium player had 0 chance to win a varium player for over 5 years or so. This is a fact.
This fact however made anyone who bought varium, felt that he should have an advantage, he should win, he should the best, he should... and he should... and he should... The generation of P2W players who were always excessively rewarded weren't okay with the transition.
A full generation of ED P2W players quitted because of this transition from P2W to F2P. A necessary transition but collateral damage is present at any decision, doing a move or standing by will cause damage to the game.

ED is coming to an end, that's a fact also, but that end isn't near thanks to this transition, when numbers say 90% or so of the player base is F2P, that's something important to think about, and to remind you of a sentence I said earlier in response to OWA:

quote:

a game supported by a company can survive without P2W players, but it can't survive without its F2P players, the reason is clear, F2P players are the majority, and making them the underdog, a punch bag for P2W players, will make them leave (e.g what happened in late Omega and the transition to mobile gaming).

However ED in the beginning didn't have a support, the game had to give advantage to whoever pays to keep going, and not any advantage, excessive advantage, everyone knows that, ask any player who played in delta / gamma / beta or even in alpha. It came with a price, F2P players have better choices, better games to play where they are equal to any other player that pays, so I would say the transition was necessary, otherwise if the game kept as a P2W, you would already see Titan and NW themselves playing PVP against P2W players due to the lack of F2P players.

quote:

Edit: Lets be honest for a second here. If you guys weren't trying to devalue ranks, or if you were at least trying to be fair, you would've made underdog mode affect Primary Dmg, Gun Damage, Bot, Defense, and Resistance instead of affecting stats directly. Thats a no brainer and you guys definitely know that in its current stateUnderDog Mode is not fair and I extremely disappointed with some of the community who will stand by and say its fair just because they're winning more matches when:

1) you haven't even put in the time to power up your character
And
2) you dont even want to put in the time to power up your character.

Underdog mode is totally fair for new players. Ranking system is not fair for anyone who just started playing the game, you had an advantage of 2 years to rank up, How is that fair?

The underdog is here to preserve the rights of any new player who wishes to play the game for a long time.
Having high rank is not due to hard work only, it is due to time advantage you had because you were there when the system was released.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 5/22/2015 11:15:55 >

Epic

Post #: 55

5/22/2015 14:48:22

The berserker killer
Member

@Ranloth: Yea I completely understand that it wont happen. I was merely just posting my take on the game in its current state and I especially understand that underdog mode was supposed to indirectly affect ranks however I do believe it could use some major tweaking. Any who, thats all I really have to say to represent a large majority of high ranking and hardworking players and, once again, I am extremely disappointed with the current state of our community. You guys should know better.

Epic

Post #: 56

Page: << < prev 1 2 [3]

All Forums >> [Artix Entertainment Games] >> [EpicDuel] >> EpicDuel General Discussion >> RE: =ED= May 19th, 2015 - Epic Artist Showcase: Deuce

Page 3 of 3

Jump to:

Icon Legend

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Forum Content Copyright © 2018 Artix Entertainment, LLC.

"AdventureQuest", "DragonFable", "MechQuest", "EpicDuel", "BattleOn.com", "AdventureQuest Worlds", "Artix Entertainment"
and all game character names are either trademarks or registered trademarks of Artix Entertainment, LLC. All rights are reserved.
PRIVACY POLICY