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Infernal Swarm Broken in the New Meta?

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6/13/2015 18:19:07   
Dj Pizza
Member

Greetings fellow Duelists!

Please allow someone who is still perfecting his english language to share his problem.

Like a lot of you, I've been supporting Epic Duel since it's creation and will probably be doing so until it dies (hopefully never).
I've always been quite a competitive player at this game and I've always tried to aim for the highest possible win %.
However there's something that has been on my mind recently:


The Pyro Fly's Infernal Swarm skill: "Randomly disables one of your target's 3 highest level skills for the rest of the battle"


I know this skill already has a lot of hate toward it and I'm definitely not here to add more, but instead I will try to thoroughly explain why this skill has to be changed in order to keep the game healthy.
First of all, we have to consider that every second robot skills in the game is rather spectacular when used in the right build. Some requires high Tech/Focus (Infernal Android, Botanical Borg, etc.) and some can help you throughout the fight without having to invest into neither Focus nor Technology (Black Abyss, Yetis, Kartherax, etc.).

Pyro Fly would fall under the second category of skills. Which means any build / class can use the skill without changing it's outcome.
There are many reasons why this skills haven't been nerfed in the past (I only speculate):

- Under lvl 25 you probably only have 1-2 high level skills, the rest is pretty low and can result in Infernal Swarm shutting down an obsolete skill.
- Few players have access to it
- When max level was 35, the "high level" meta was all about Strength. Who cared if someone removed your Parasite? Maul him down!

If we were still back then I would agree. Pyro Fly isn't much of a threat to the old meta.

However, things changed.

-Strength got nerfed. Not once, but twice
-People are getting more and more skill relying to kill their foes (Dex, Support and Tech builds are popping the roof)
-The maximum level now being 40, most builds will max out 3 important skills then put the rest into support skills (gotta use these 5 bonus skill points)

Thing is, when Infernal Swarm is used, it will automatically and permanently shut down a vital skill, therefore destroying the entire build synergy that someone worked hard to achieve.
In the current meta, a skill that costs no energy, does low-medium damage and shuts down almost every builds while lasting for the ENTIRE battle, ensuring cheap and effortless wins is not something to be considered fair or healthy.

I understand it cannot be changed to a skill that only lasts as long as the skill's cooldown since it would just be another Concussive Shot, but allowing it to at least disable ANY skill regardless of how many invested points the skill have would be a great improvement.

If anyone agrees or have counter arguments to my statements or knows how Pyro Fly could be changed in a healthy way, I would love you to let me know.

Nice day and good dueling!
Post #: 1
6/13/2015 18:25:57   
.Lord Ginger.
Member

It's a 1 in 3 chance, and it's still possible to win. Use pyro yourself to see what counters it(other people) and make your build according to that. And not everyone that has it uses it as a result of the 1 in 3 chance of X skill being taken away. Other robots like Infernal, have specials for other situations, going through defense. If that makes sense?
AQW Epic  Post #: 2
6/13/2015 18:34:10   
Dj Pizza
Member

I agree with you it IS totally random. I also acknowledge that every builds have their counters. What throws me off though is the fact that if Infernal Swarm shuts the right skill you have less chances of getting away than before (when Str was way more present), allowing Pyro to heavily counter way more build than any robots actually can.
Post #: 3
6/13/2015 18:38:39   
.Lord Ginger.
Member

Right, that's the goal though. It's goal, if lucky enough, shuts down energy, which hurts...a lot. However, I haven't seen many people use it recently. If I could be on ED soon, I'd test it out, but I can't. My only reason is that if it shuts out the wrong move, opponent X rages Infernal Android special and wins. It's kind of a "hit or miss" bot, ya know?
AQW Epic  Post #: 4
6/13/2015 19:14:47   
Mother1
Member

As someone who uses this bot, It is not always effective.

There are times when I use it and I get a move that is completely worthless (reflex boost for BM and BH for example) You are literally gambling with this robot due to the power it holds. It could destroy a player if they aren't skilled enough to improvise, or it could be 100% worthless and do nothing.

Epic  Post #: 5
6/13/2015 19:58:45   
Stonehawk
Member

Also, its special skill's damage is really bad. Taking a skill the other player won't need gives him an advantage for using such low damage for nothing, while taking an important skill from the opponent might give us an advantage, but not certain victory.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 6
6/13/2015 19:59:23   
Dj Pizza
Member

I would love to say that luck makes a game unhealthy, but luck has been an important factor throughout the history of ED.
I may have overvalued the power of Infernal Swarm a bit, but being a TM player to the core, I had to get it off my chest for all those time my BB got freezed by this annoying bug.
Post #: 7
6/13/2015 21:04:10   
Mother1
Member

@ DJ pizza

I am a TM myself and the way I set my build up Pyro swarm doesn't hurt me too much. It tends to hurt caster Dex Mages more than other TM builds.

Also As long as there is RNG there will always be luck no matter how you look at it.
Epic  Post #: 8
6/14/2015 0:23:25   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 This bot is gimped and the concept of RNG being a complete game-changer needs to be fixed. Like seriously the whole bot needs a complete overhaul rework.

I believe I mentioned before this robot, especially after the robot damage changes, is near broken. Because of the current meta where there are a very clear 3 essential skills which are invested in, you have in most cases at minimum a 2/3 chance of knocking out a crucial skill in someone's build. Put this on the right class and they're just dead. Example is on a CH and if you knock out their energy recovery skill. If you're playing a super-sustainy champ like TLM and you smack their field medic or mark of blood off they're probably gonna lose, especially if you use poison and they can't heal it off because of its absurd base damage. This bot was very acceptable back when people actually invested moderate amounts in 4-6 different skills on their tree, but right now the focus is always 3-4 so pyro fly absolutely destroys people in the current meta. Plus the fact that it's completely RNG-based makes fights not even fair because it's essentially letting the random number generator do half of the work. The special needs to be reworked to something more reliable. Same applies to concussive strike.
Epic  Post #: 9
6/14/2015 5:32:45   
King Bling
Member

quote:

Under lvl 25 you probably only have 1-2 high level skills, the rest is pretty low and can result in Infernal Swarm shutting down an obsolete skill


Not true, even if you keep one skill at max and others at 2, it has an equal chance to shut down that 2 as same as of the maxed one, considering except for the max all of the rest are 2.
If you still dont understand, lemme explain with example. [Btw whatever the skill placement may be, the max skill always has an equal chance i.e 1/3 to get shut down and does not alter either way]
Now for eg.
Consider the person is a TM. Now he has max battery, max assimilation, and the 3rd skill is at 3, rest all skills are at 2. Then assmi as well as battery have 1/3 chance as well the 3rd skill which is at 3 can get shut down as well.

Tips And Techniques to be safe from this bot:-
1.) Never have more than one skill at same level i.e for example you have 1 skill at max or 2 at max and rest all on 3, by rest I mean all. Then you know what that would mean? Every skill on your skill tree has 1/12 chance to get disabled.
Now what I mentioned above can be used as a technique to reduce the chances of your max skills to get disabled. Since it will reduce the 1/3 chance to increase to 1/12 chance.
2.) Keep useless/ less used skills on higher level than your main skill which you depend on, for example as a TLM, I do have my battery at 8, my frenzy at max, my poison at 9, blood shield at max, so even if frenzy gets disabled, or blood shield, or poison being disabled doesnt matter much since my battery is at the 4th pos for highest skill points invested into.

Now to clear out, the bot does not have 1/3 chance to disable skills but the 1/[Insert number of top 3 skills] chances to disable [Inserted skills in <-----].

Like you have maxed battery maxed frenzy and have poison at 5, surge at 5, blood shield at 5, heal at 5, rest all lower than 5, the number of skills getting disabled increases or rather I should say decreases, to 1/1battery +1frenzy+1 poison+1 surge+1 bs+1heal i.e 1/6 chances of these 6 skills to get disabled. this also increases your chance to be safe since your maxed skill change to get disabled decreases from 1/3 to 1/6.
Post #: 10
6/14/2015 9:18:54   
Dj Pizza
Member

@King Bling

I have no idea who will try to make a build based on being safe from Pyro Fly at level 25 though. Heck even at any level this bot is pretty rare compared to mr Android.

Also I said probably. I took care not to include everyone and every builds in this statement. So no, I am not wrong since the lvl 20-26 meta is almost all about focus and Android. In that case Infernal Swarm won't really change much.

Oh and I think you misunderstood what I mean by ''shutting down an obsolete skill''. I meant under 25 you mostly have 1-2 vital skill and the 2nd-3rd one can often be neglected compared to a build where all 3 are maxed out. You just explained what I said but in other words x)

< Message edited by Dj Pizza -- 6/14/2015 9:41:16 >
Post #: 11
6/14/2015 12:12:40   
King Bling
Member

Not really, anyways to mention, this pyro bot is coming this june, this friday, be sure to buy it, GL.
Post #: 12
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