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why support builds are OP

 
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8/16/2015 18:12:47   
RaXZerGamingZ
Member

everybody knows support builds are broken , but here's why , mainly for the dev's but whatevez :

1. artillery strike has no stat requarements , causing support to be easyely abused too much

2. its easy to get mana back , every support build user is a Tactical Mercenary , and they can get mana back easyely because of battery backup and the other move that gives HP and MP and ignores 10% of the defences

thats basicly it , tell me if i missed something and tell me what you think the dev's should do to fix this :)

Moved from ED GD! ~Battle Elf

< Message edited by Battle Elf -- 8/17/2015 11:52:37 >
Post #: 1
8/16/2015 18:29:35   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


Maybe people should start learning to take a higher level of field medic. It really helps.

No support builds are not broken but they really need to change crits. If anything related to supports is broken it is not artillery strike or aux damage but crits.
Epic  Post #: 2
8/16/2015 23:31:31   
Dark Worshgiper
Member

I find getting this skill with stat requirements is good idea .
AQW Epic  Post #: 3
8/17/2015 0:22:47   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


it used to require a small amount of dex.

Just as a note adding stat requirements only puts focus builds up higher than other builds. A more creative way should be implemented to keep certain builds in check.
Epic  Post #: 4
8/17/2015 2:36:42   
Daph Duck
Member

Support builds are not broken / overpowered in the slightest, they can be very easily defeated with proper strategy and being able to time energy drains, heals and azrael's to your benefit. They usually have very mediocre defense making them easy to destroy once they're out of energy (especially with mark of blood). Once they have no energy they are unable to do any serious damage beyond their auxiliary weapon which is usually deflected seeing as support builds have mediocre technology and most serious players are using focus builds with high technology, and their flow of energy should be easily drained by any class (frenzy will pretty much never give anywhere near enough to use artillery strike, even if you couldn't take much off of their battery backup). If they don't get a long string of critical hits (it definitely does not happen every battle) you honestly shouldn't have any problem fighting a support TLM. Even if they did get critical hits, unless they were all on auxiliary or multi, they shouldn't be hindering your ability to win, so instead of rushing to call something broken please evaluate your own build and gameplay first.
The only somewhat of a problem I can see is critical hits, but even though the chance to get a critical hit is higher with more support, critical hits themselves have nothing to do with artillery strike or the auxiliary. Not to mention that support builds will have very little to base dex / tech and the blocks and deflections can easily outweigh the criticals (not counting multi).
AQW Epic  Post #: 5
8/17/2015 3:47:52   
Front45
Member


The problem is that game finishing so fast. aux, energy backup, multi shot, poison grenade <<= these skills are rounding
Post #: 6
8/17/2015 8:18:15   
Satafou
Member

Support builds are OP , because most people who play this game have the average IQ of a potato and don't know when to steal enegry or how to place a shield or even when to use a certain gun's core that everyone who isn't a newbie has had excess to...
Post #: 7
8/17/2015 9:16:27   
Darkwing
Member

I just find it silly how my best tanks get huge damage from support build criticals. what's the point of high defenses if critical just laugh at it. If that wasn't enough, they also use poison after i used my heal. Multi strike alone combines with rage and critical deals enough damage to kill a 750 hp tank.


TLM is a mess of a class left after all the changes. This class started with smokescreen, tech shield and other version of frenzy. So many changes and this is the result.


In 2vs2, 2 support build TLM own so hard it's not even funny.




< Message edited by Darkwing -- 8/17/2015 9:19:14 >
Post #: 8
8/17/2015 10:00:59   
Mother1
Member

@ Darkwing

Crits were made with the purpose to counter tank builds just like Rage was so basically you are complaining about a mechanic that is actually doing it's job.
Epic  Post #: 9
8/17/2015 14:07:18   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


quote:

I just find it silly how my best tanks get huge damage from support build criticals. what's the point of high defenses if critical just laugh at it. If that wasn't enough, they also use poison after i used my heal. Multi strike alone combines with rage and critical deals enough damage to kill a 750 hp tank.


It's kind of silly that one of the 2 main ways to counter high-defense tanks is crits which are very unreliable. Rage is the other one but that is far more consistent at least.
Epic  Post #: 10
8/17/2015 16:05:16   
.Lord Ginger.
Member

NOT OP, think, I've had a 20 round battle with a supp merc before

I win in like 8 usually
AQW Epic  Post #: 11
8/17/2015 19:51:43   
Lord Machaar
Member

Support builds are glasscanon builds, they get roasted by strenght builds, str BHs cut theough them like a hot knife cutting through butter. Yet these builds are highly effective against low-hp builds, of all types. The reason is simple, when high-support builds start, they can deal 600 - 500 damage in the first 2 turns, forcing the opponent to heal, normally field medic of such low-hp builds is level 1 - 2, which gives 408 - 433 HP, an amount that is so low, so next time, the support build player uses rage multi + aux = 600 / 700 damage + 250 / 300 damage = 850 / 1000 damage in just 2 turns + poison.

If you use a low hp build, you can change this scenario by using different skills, as a TLM I use surgical strike to stop support builds from raging, other classes use shields/energy draining/etc... but when you receive 2 - 3 crits without deflecting any aux attacks, there isn't much to do, no matter what class you are using.

Support builds encounter low-hp builds, this is a fact you should accept when you play a low-hp build, but a fact that you can change, ofcourse it depends on the situation, a rank 60 support player isn't like a rank 1 support player. Strenght builds are effective against support builds because they deal a high amount of damage against them, something that low-hp builds can't do, after first turn, all low-hp builds take a defensive playing method, it is not the case for strenght builds, since their high HP gives them the chance to attack even after the first 2 turns so they can turn the table, low-hp builds can't do so, only robot/aux are deal a respective amount of damage, they both have 3 turns cooldown, strenght builds can do the same damage with "strike", so I think you get the idea here.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 8/17/2015 19:55:18 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 12
8/17/2015 20:37:55   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


"Support builds counter low-HP builds"

The main problem I have with this is that low-HP covers such a giant spectrum of different builds. It's not like dex-TM counters strength builds where it just counters any build that is heavily reliant on blockable moves, support builds counter any build of any type that has a relatively low amount of health. This alone is enough for a single build to shape the whole meta since people want to avoid getting completely destroyed and there are rarely any low HP builds out there now, which changes which builds become more popular in turn to fight the builds that have higher amounts of HP. And builds that are directly countered by low-HP builds now have a huge edge.

Support builds aren't OP but they are a detriment to the game.
Epic  Post #: 13
8/18/2015 3:40:23   
Foulman
Member

Exploding penguin, not sure about BM, but BH has to take the artillery, and a high heal is really unfeasible with static, because it doesn't take care of the poison that follows a heal, and costs way too much energy to use in other circumstances. And it is easy if the support TLM is dumb, but there are always the smart ones who use azraels and don't use arty while shadow arts is on. It also sucks when they have ice shield, which makes BH, BM, Merc and TLM lose their secondary heals. And just before you say that unblockables are the key, when was the last time you saw a focus BH with a good Stun, Multi or Massacre?
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 14
8/18/2015 8:21:23   
.Lord Ginger.
Member

I use medic on 1,900 HP, don't use shadow, and beat supp tlm all day
AQW Epic  Post #: 15
8/18/2015 12:49:54   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


quote:

And just before you say that unblockables are the key, when was the last time you saw a focus BH with a good Stun, Multi or Massacre?


Whatever happened to cores and energy drains.

Static grenade is one of the stronger single-turn drains in the game. You could also just use yetis.

You could also just run tons of max HP. It makes it harder for them to get rage if you have more HP rather than more defenses. Also max mark of blood. It does wonders.
Epic  Post #: 16
8/18/2015 14:46:46   
Thylek Shran
Member

Support builds are not OPed its HP and Strike combined with high strenght and skills like Bludgeon and Fire Scythe. Str HP builds are way stronger than support builds and mostly unbeabtable for other builds. Making Assimilation accessible for TM strenght+sword builds was a very bad idea. Same does count for TLM energy regeneration.

< Message edited by Thylek Shran -- 8/18/2015 14:49:02 >
DF Epic  Post #: 17
8/18/2015 14:59:30   
.Lord Ginger.
Member

STR TM Isn't OP'd either, lol.


5 Focus is OP IF anything, rofl
AQW Epic  Post #: 18
8/18/2015 16:45:43   
Lord Machaar
Member

We can't however neglect the fact that ranks do change your opinion of X build. Having 60 ranks and facing a rank 1 support build is something. The other way around is something else.
MQ Epic  Post #: 19
8/18/2015 18:39:08   
Foulman
Member

I don't have any money anymore, and seeing as frost shards is much better than 5 focus, I'm just gonna use that. And it can be deflected. And can anyone show me a high health BH build with a high win ratio? Which core is better-meteor, energy storm or frost shards?
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 20
8/18/2015 23:08:45   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


Frost shards or meteor. Energy storm is exclusively only "useful" for 2v2 and even then does basically nothing.

As for build you can just go high HP smoke + mark of blood + strike and keep on slapping them. In this scenario it might be better to grab meteor. Given you have enough HP you can heal back most of the damage they deal that isn't their aux or their multi, and your max HP should let you outsustain them.
Epic  Post #: 21
8/21/2015 22:46:38   
RaXZerGamingZ
Member

thanks all for replying , although i agree with you , supports are easy to kill but not for every class atleast , mark of blood is a god skill against support builds because it does grant quit allot of lifesteal , aspecially because you're damage is high . when i was cyber i coulnt beat them but now i can because i have mark of blood , also i dont have the azrael gun so dont go saying its easy to beat them because if i didnt have mark it would be harder
Post #: 22
8/22/2015 4:42:56   
Mother1
Member

^ I play as a TM and I still beat support builds when I face them. Malfuction also helps as well seeing as it make them even more prone to not connect with their aux. Then there is the yeti bot which if timed right can cripple a support build seeing as it takes away their aux and sidearm for 3 turns.
Epic  Post #: 23
8/22/2015 16:27:19   
RaXZerGamingZ
Member

look , TLM's are the hardest support build types but then yet easy to beat , i know its easy to beat but its overpowerd , a crit chance happens highly , when i ws cyber i just shielded up for 200+ more defences and then they crit most of the times , it does too much damage
Post #: 24
8/25/2015 8:43:25   
Thylek Shran
Member

The critical hit chance bonus of support is to low. Instead of 1% for every 7.5 support is should
be 1% for every 6.5 support over the opponent support. Mercenaries can be really strong with
support as Artillery Strike is stronger than other Multies and Overload, and does improve with
support. So there is a high chance (double chance) for a critical hit against 2 opponents when
using Artillery Strike with high support but not in 1vs1. Its seems that Artillery Strike is OPed in
2vs2 because of those factors.

How can this be solved ? Artillery Strike could have a negative or fixed critical hit bonus when
being used against two opponents or some other handicap.

When comparing the multi skills and Overload at 150 dex/support Artillery Strike definetly
is the most powerfull followed by Multi-Shot and Plasma Rain. Without the stun effect Overload
is the least powerfull in pure damage. I made a table to show you this in numbers.
Its for comparing level 40 characters only !

Multi/Support skill comparison table

Sorted by power from left (most powerfull) to right (least powerfull)

< Message edited by Thylek Shran -- 8/25/2015 9:30:52 >
DF Epic  Post #: 25
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