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RE: why support builds are OP

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9/1/2015 22:23:59   
Thylek Shran
Member

quote:

I mean I'm talking about this right now because I've just done 500 1vs1 wins in the
last 3- 4 days and 200 wins in a single day, I'm not talking because I played 5 battles
yesterday or I'm talking because I have 50k NPC wins.

Your 5 focus TLM seem to be pretty OPed when you can make so many wins in that time.
Frenzy should not be weak then and you dont use and need Atom Smasher at all.
Or do you use the strong Strenght TLM build now which does work even better with Frenzy...

quote:

Frenzy has 44% energy gain of the total amount of damage, and 22% of HP gain,
meaning that if you want to get 100 energy/ 50 HP, you need to deal 227 damage, this
damage can't be dealt by a normal strike for the current playable builds, for instance 5 focus
and support TLM builds, meaning that if you want to get use of this skill you need to use it
at rage, otherwise it will be just like a strike with 10% defense ignoring that doesn't even
matter with RNG.

Strenght build is very well playable for TLM. You can do alot more than 227 damage then
as not everyone does use a tank. Using it with Rage (and Sword) can make Frenzy OPed.
I remember when CHs abused Static Charge like this in Delta and then it got nerfed.
I agree that the current state of Frenzy and Atom Smasher which both improve with
Strenght is not good for build diversity.

< Message edited by Thylek Shran -- 9/1/2015 22:29:29 >
DF Epic  Post #: 51
9/2/2015 2:36:15   
Lord Machaar
Member

quote:

Your 5 focus TLM seem to be pretty OPed when you can make so many wins in that time.
Frenzy should not be weak then and you dont use and need Atom Smasher at all.
Or do you use the strong Strenght TLM build now which does work even better with Frenzy...

5 focus TLM can be encountered by more than one build, high dex TMs that make frenzy useless, high support builds that encounter any low-hp build, and ofcourse the OPed 5 focus BH, without mentioning high strenght TMs.
But that's off topic so I prefer to stay on topic and talk about support builds.
quote:


Strenght build is very well playable for TLM. You can do alot more than 227 damage then
as not everyone does use a tank. Using it with Rage (and Sword) can make Frenzy OPed.
I remember when CHs abused Static Charge like this in Delta and then it got nerfed.
I agree that the current state of Frenzy and Atom Smasher which both improve with
Strenght is not good for build diversity.


Strenght builds beside str TM are failing miserably nowadays, especially against high dexterity builds, for the simple reason that TM as a class now combine long ranged (Fire scythe) attacks and close ranged attacks (Bludgeon, which you cannot find in other classes, plus an energy skill that improves with strenght yet doesn't have support requirements, and we are here talking about an additional energy skill, as for BM's parasite requires 42 support for level 10.
As for frenzy, this skill once again can get blocked without giving back anything unlike assimilation, plus the energy/HP gained is related to many factors, how much strenght used, how much defense/support your opponent has. But that's another off-topic thing.
MQ Epic  Post #: 52
9/2/2015 4:45:10   
Front45
Member


 high rank tct merc is really over power class in ed.

Aux - multi - poison - energy backup - aux - multi - coming rage so soon

and enemy is down
Post #: 53
9/2/2015 10:13:37   
RaXZerGamingZ
Member

^

verry true
Post #: 54
9/2/2015 14:23:08   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 They don't drain energy.

Get a high field medic. And then use it right after they poison. If their turn sequence is exactly as you described that'd be the perfect time for a high field medic.
Epic  Post #: 55
9/3/2015 3:42:00   
nowras
Member

Lol support builds aren't hard at all they only counter 750 hp builds if they PLAY VERY WELL

I'm using a 750 hp build with super low def cuz I'm using higher support (+0 +20 + 35 + 29) so my def is very low (340-400 or something) so for support builds I must be very easy to them yet I still beat 90% of them how?

Mark Of Blood Energy parasite heal plasma cannon force bot

but I face a problem its when they crit me if they crit me even one time without deflecting their aux for at least 1 time ill lose becuz it will ruin the strategy up there ^

1st of all when u MOB (mark of blood) u will survive the next attack on 140 hp then when u energy parasite u will get extra 60 health so 200 hp and then they have to battery or wait until parasite is done if they battery u heal if they wait use plasma cannon (if they don't have Azrael's gun) then u will prob be on 340 hp if u plasma and on 700 hp if u heal so now if they use battery and u heal after that they will poison u if they do they r dead cuz they wont have enough energy for multi and if they don't poison they r dead too cuz u still have generator ;)

< Message edited by nowras -- 9/3/2015 11:01:24 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 56
9/3/2015 7:46:30   
Foulman
Member

Does your strategy work on level 37? And what are your exact stats, nowras. I'm a BH, so I'll try it out.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 57
9/3/2015 11:51:23   
Lord Machaar
Member

Nowras, you play 750 HP build with 80 ranks. There is a difference.
MQ Epic  Post #: 58
9/3/2015 15:05:07   
shadow.bane
Member

what difference ? 20 more health 10 less energy on cores 40 to aux and gun ? i am doing same strategy since i switched to bh from rank 7 till now almost 49 ! yes my % changed and better now but not much difference like from 92 % + to 95 % + few damage matters but not that much ... taking away 30 damage from multi and aux wont change a think ! you win cause ur good u lose cause the other player got lucky or he is better than you that's it , i stand with what i said first when u start complaining about ranks ... ranks gives u 1 % more luck to win the battle not more ... but underdog ??? gives you more % on ur block/deflection/critical chances means MORE RNG % ... not equal ... support are easy to counter they not op as u see them , just use brains u can see how easy they will be ... use certain skills at the right time ! timing matters , good luck . case closed .
AQW Epic  Post #: 59
9/4/2015 13:00:37   
Lord Machaar
Member

You aren't seeing the big picture, when you say ranks for example make you receive 30 less damage each turn, let's look at it this way, 30 less damage for 5 turns is 150 damage, 150 damage can actually
make you win the battle.
You say 40 more damage each battle, you need to say 40 more damage each turn, for 5 turns, it is 200 more damage that will deal against your opponent. Sometimes you need only 2 damage to win the
battle.
Don't tell me ranks do not make the difference, they don't make the difference according to you, not according to mathematics, because mathematics say, if a rank 60 players faces a rank 1:
- The rank 60 player will receive 300 less damage each 10 turns.
- The rank 60 player will deal 400 more damage each 10 turns.
Isn't this enough to make you win the battle? I mean this is the difference between forcing you to heal and not.
MQ Epic  Post #: 60
9/4/2015 13:45:48   
shadow.bane
Member

i don't look at mathematics i look at facts when a rank one withe lesser armors and lesser robot damage deal on me with his robot more than i dealt to him ! deal with that facts :) . happened to me many many times ... that what i deal with ~ not freaking mathematics ! facts brother it's all about what happen in the battle with facts .

i worked my a** off to get to this rank and when a lazy player complain they give him more stats and RNG ?

< Message edited by shadow.bane -- 9/4/2015 13:46:44 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 61
9/4/2015 14:06:38   
Lord Machaar
Member

It's not a matter if you played hard or not, it's a matter of who started first playing the game, so basically according to your logic, if I start playing ED 2 years before and I'm get to rank 60, and a new
player starts playing and reaches rank 1, we will punish him by losing every battle, why? Because you didn't start at the same time? I mean what logic is that, if all games follow the logic of who starts
playing the game first, and giving utter advantage to those who do, I mean most games will stop getting more players after beta, why? Because some players say they deserve to have the advantage
over all just because they started first, this is not a thing in FPS games, in First Person Shooter games, your skills and your intelligence make you win, not when you started playing the game or what equipement
/weapons you have, sure they might have an impact in the game but not 90% of impact.
And no, you cannot neglect mathematical facts I've given, otherwise, you are lying to yourself.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 9/4/2015 14:11:18 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 62
9/4/2015 14:57:26   
shadow.bane
Member

dude ill stop u here , my account is 1 year 2 months and 8 days old exactly !!!! so don't talk about old or new acc or timing .
AQW Epic  Post #: 63
9/4/2015 15:07:27   
Lord Machaar
Member

that's exactly my point, it is 1 year and 2 month, what if a player joins 2 months and reaches level 40, that's 1 year difference.
MQ Epic  Post #: 64
9/4/2015 15:46:48   
shadow.bane
Member

exactly , but i worked my a** off to get there so a player with no exp comes and complain and nag and give him extra stats and rng ...
AQW Epic  Post #: 65
9/4/2015 17:08:16   
Lord Machaar
Member

There is a difference between players who choose not to rank up and those who didn't start early enough to rank up, we can't punish both just because you have "free" time, that's gaming logic worldwide
and all gaming companies know that, not just because a player can spend 8 hours playing X game should get the ultimate advantage in-game since not each and every player can do that. That's why
how you maintain your game, otherwise you will satisfy a minority of players, that's it.
I mean every thing now is possible, you just need time, download a botting program, wait for PH, launch the program, farm an NPC 100 times on PH, there you go, 2.4k experience each day, you can rank
up in 3 days, 10 ranks in 30 days, you just need time. Getting ranks now doesn't take you much brain in ED.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 9/4/2015 17:09:33 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 66
9/4/2015 21:50:14   
Thylek Shran
Member

quote:

Getting ranks now doesn't take you much brain in ED.

ED is a game of endurance not about brain. You can rank up fast even
by loosing in 1vs1. Just make a Strenght TLM and farm 1vs1 14 hours
a day.

< Message edited by Thylek Shran -- 9/4/2015 21:53:51 >
DF Epic  Post #: 67
9/4/2015 23:16:49   
Lord Machaar
Member

How you can have endurance without a brain? I mean I had some fights where each move had a consequence, these battles combined many criteria, balanced builds, small rank gaps, once these terms
are fulfilled, the game becomes a sheer "intelligence" game and not who can deal more damage.
Yet there is the other side of game, where you don't earn your ranks through playing fair and square the PVP battles, yet through botting in 1vs1 and NPCs, I wouldn't call that hard work though, so after you reach rank 50 or 100,
don't tell me I deserve the advantage, that's my logic atleast.
And let's face it, Devs find it difficult to detect PVP botters, so when we are talking about NPC botters, that's near impossible, therefore having 50k / 100k NPC wins will be always a thing to suspect.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 9/4/2015 23:19:14 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 68
9/5/2015 0:04:54   
Thylek Shran
Member

Yeah, all characters with those wins are botters.
Its obvious that you are just jealous about players
who made alot NPC wins.
DF Epic  Post #: 69
9/5/2015 0:41:42   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


 This discussion is getting off track and degenerating into a series of personal attacks. Let's get back to the topic, please. I still haven't seen anything that convinces me that support builds pose a balance problem, BTW.
Post #: 70
9/5/2015 0:44:41   
Lord Machaar
Member

Why would I? Just tell me, because they whether did a good botting, or sat there like a machine repeating the same 5 moves against big tuna. One of the two and I'm not amazed by neither one of them.
MQ Epic  Post #: 71
9/5/2015 0:50:08   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


 ^

If you have concerns with botting and have proof against specific players, please PM a staff member and we will get the devs to look into it. If you dislike the state of NPC grinding in the game, feel free to make a separate thread about it. If you have personal issues with other players, PM them. Derailing a thread for a completely irrelevant topic is not the way to address these issues.
Post #: 72
9/5/2015 0:56:27   
Lord Machaar
Member

I can state 6 names here of players botting in 1vs1 ranked from 1 to 60, so as you can see devs are struggling to fight "PVP" botting, I mean no wonder they can't do anything or even detect those who
bot while NPCing, I mean what's the difference anyways between botting and actually playing while doing NPCs, you only replace the human with a program, the moves remain the same, while it's not
the case for PVP botting where we can detect botters.
MQ Epic  Post #: 73
9/5/2015 2:54:43   
Foulman
Member

Silver Sky Magician's support build was strong, but not impossible. This is lolmaniac here, lol. Nice job on the class change btw.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 74
9/5/2015 5:07:10   
shadow.bane
Member

@machaar it's not my problem that guy chose not rank up ! and why i got punished just cause that guy is a lazy ass and don't want to rank ? the only reason i don't play pvp now is that underdog mode and RNG ... i played vs a support tlm ended me up in 7 rounds with i heal and stuff and shields etc ... th 7 hits were critical even his hawk bot was critical ... that's too much for 20 % for 7 hits ... that's freaking 100 % ...

plus i have 25400 npcs wins ! am i botting ?

< Message edited by shadow.bane -- 9/5/2015 5:08:59 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 75
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