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RE: why support builds are OP

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9/5/2015 8:47:06   
nowras
Member

@Lord Machaar

quote:

You aren't seeing the big picture, when you say ranks for example make you receive 30 less damage each turn, let's look at it this way, 30 less damage for 5 turns is 150 damage, 150 damage can actually
make you win the battle.
You say 40 more damage each battle, you need to say 40 more damage each turn, for 5 turns, it is 200 more damage that will deal against your opponent. Sometimes you need only 2 damage to win the
battle.
Don't tell me ranks do not make the difference, they don't make the difference according to you, not according to mathematics, because mathematics say, if a rank 60 players faces a rank 1:
- The rank 60 player will receive 300 less damage each 10 turns.
- The rank 60 player will deal 400 more damage each 10 turns.
Isn't this enough to make you win the battle? I mean this is the difference between forcing you to heal and not


:o really?

1st of all when I vs a rank 29.. I'm a rank 74 player he gets underdog mode V well that means extra def and resis for him

so yea the rank 29 will prob get extra 8 def and 8 resis points 5 gun damage or 7and 5 or 7 primary damage and 5 or 7 aux damage plus extra bot damage

the rank 29 now has extra 8 def extra 8 resis prob 1-2 extra bot damage (if he has max def resis and bot) gun weaker by 33 aux weaker by 33 and a primary weaker by 23

the rank 29 will have an extra 25% chance to start 1st so whatever ur opponent's support is the rank 29 will start 1st

if the match lasted for lets say 8 rounds 2 rounds of them were defensive/healing rounds so lets talk about 6 turns 1 turn of gun (33-8=25 extra damage) 1 turn of aux (33-8=25 extra) 1 turn of energy parasite does 30 anyways... (0 extra damage) 2 turns of robot ( 16 less damage) 2 turns of skills like plasma cannon ( 8 less damage) +20 health for healing result:

25+25-8-8-16= 18 extra damage the rank 74 does to the rank 29 and 20 more health it sounds fair till now... but wait what about the 25% chance to go 1st!??!?!?!!?!? :O UNFAIR AF HE CAN EASILY DO MORE THAN 150 DAMAGE IN THE 1ST TURN ALLOWING THE RANK 29 TO DEAL (150-20-18=132) 132 MORE DAMAGE THAN THE RANK 74


this is the bigger picture mister Machaar...






he starts 1st even tho I have more supp
AQW Epic  Post #: 76
9/5/2015 8:56:55   
Foulman
Member

Nowras, I'm level 37, and whenever I fight rank 19s, they have a 17 stat advantage and +30 res/def. Now add in extra armour and base weapon damage, HP and EP, and that is a massive advantage. That is the equivalent of a 5-6 level advantage. How's that fair?
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 77
9/5/2015 9:16:06   
nowras
Member

u cant fight me at all bro....

and I know underdog mode is so broken

its weak for people with no max def/resis and op for those who have max def/resis and vs higher ranked players


HOW MANY TIMES SHOULD I REPEAT UNDERDOG MODE SHOULD GIVE THE LOWER RANK 50% OF WHAT THE HIGHER RANK HAVE OF PERKS

PLUS

1ST TURN SHOULDNT BE AFFECTED BY UNDERDOG MODE AT ALL....

< Message edited by nowras -- 9/5/2015 9:17:15 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 78
9/5/2015 9:21:24   
Foulman
Member

I agree. Stats don't work as well as defences and damage. But still keave us underdogs with 15% extra first turn.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 79
9/5/2015 18:32:20   
Thylek Shran
Member

Underdog bonus is another reason why Support is underpowered.
Characters with lower levels and ranks already have a big chance to go first
with the old formula that implements Support. The additional Underdog
bonus does destroy the whole Support bonus to get first move.
This does especially and only weaken Support. Regarding Support only
Artillery Strike is OPed. All the other stuff that does improve with Support is
UPed. Even Auxiliary damage when comparing it to the Strike damage of
Strenght builds as it can only be used every 4th turn. Also the lack of good
cores for aux and sidearm is a big problem for balance as it does weaken
Dexterity and Support. For Dexterity this is not a big problem tho as its
very OPed in lower levels because of Dex multi skills. And above level 40
its still very strong.
DF Epic  Post #: 80
9/5/2015 19:13:07   
Lord Machaar
Member

quote:

@machaar it's not my problem that guy chose not rank up ! and why i got punished just cause that guy is a lazy ass and don't want to rank ? the only reason i don't play pvp now is that underdog mode and RNG ... i played vs a support tlm ended me up in 7 rounds with i heal and stuff and shields etc ... th 7 hits were critical even his hawk bot was critical ... that's too much for 20 % for 7 hits ... that's freaking 100 % ...

plus i have 25400 npcs wins ! am i botting ?


Brah, brah, don't tell me if it's your problem or not, since I'm not saying it's yours, I'm saying it's game problems, and once balancers find this is an actual problem, they will fix it, in fact they did with
underdog mode, so it doesn't matter if it's a problem to you or a potato or a tomato, if balancers find it's a problem, it is a problem, and since it is a problem, it will be fixed, no matter what you or I or someone else
say, why? because according to logic, it is a problem, period, once we find a logical conclusion, opinions go to the bin, as simple as that.

@Darkness Lord:

Brah, if you lose to a rank 29 cuz he starts first, u sak. I skip 2 turns against rank 50+ and I still win, I'm telling you, you can't use a 750 hp build and expect to win, that's like playing a high dex merc build
while trying to convince yourself it will work, it won't. You are like Thylek Shran 2.0 trying to convince, not himself, but us, that high support TM build is a thing, it is just not, once other classes have 2 builds
that are properly working, then we can talk about your creations.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 9/5/2015 19:23:23 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 81
9/6/2015 8:16:06   
nowras
Member

I'm using a 750 hp with no dex at all ^ its a fast build 2-4 turns normally if I start 1st and 6-7 if I start 2nd

and its ofcourse working I did 41-0 in 1 hour on utube :)
AQW Epic  Post #: 82
9/6/2015 8:33:13   
Lord Machaar
Member

Well I'm pretty sure you are weak against high support builds as any other 750 - 800 hp build.
MQ Epic  Post #: 83
9/6/2015 8:33:55   
Foulman
Member

Nowras, can you show me your stats?
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 84
9/6/2015 8:36:59   
nowras
Member

I lose to support if they crit once that's a fact^

but remember my defl chance=35%

their crit chance=20%

that means I win more often vs them (90% of the time)

and the best enemy for me is someone with 750 hp

I 2 turn him if crit with plasma and if he doesn't heal I 4 turn him if I don't crit with plasma (plasma parasite force plasma/bot)
AQW Epic  Post #: 85
9/6/2015 19:51:32   
Thylek Shran
Member

quote:

but remember my defl chance=35%

The maximum deflect chance is 25% not 35%.

Those chances are flexible and also dependant on cores
not only to stat differences. If im right the bonus chances
for armor and weapon cores work like this:

Deflect Chance:
Base chance: 10% ?
Minimum chance: 0%
Maximum chance: 25%
1% per 5 Technology over opponent

Aim Assist:
+7% points chance to connect
7%*5=35 points Technology bonus

Deflection Shield:
+8% points chance to deflect
8%*5=40 points Technology bonus
------------------------------------------------------------

Without cores:
For a 25% deflect chance the defender does need 75 more Technology than the opponent
=(25%-10%)*5

Attacker has Aim Assist on weapon:
For a 25% deflect chance the defender does need 110 more Technology than the opponent
=(25%-10%+7%)*5

Defender has Deflection Shield on armor:
For a 25% deflect chance the defender does need 35 more Technology than the opponent
=(25%-10%-8%)*5

Attacker has Aim Assist on weapon + Defender has Deflection Shield on armor:
For a 25% deflect chance the defender does need 70 more Technology than the opponent
=(25%-10%+7%-8%)*5
------------------------------------------------------------

Conclusion:

As the most Support builds have about 60 Technology and Aim Assist cores on their
gun/aux you would need at least 130 Technology and the Deflection Shield core to
have a 25% deflect chance. Without the Deflection Shield core which is typical for the
most Technology builds you would need 170 Technology for a 25% deflect chance.
I do not know how much Technology you character does have and which passive
armor core he does have but for the most Tech builds its unlikely to have a
deflect chance of 25% against Support builds if my numbers are right.

Letīs say a character with 135 Tech and 60 Support does meet a character with
60 Tech and 150 Support that also does have Aim Assist cores.
The Deflection chance for the Tech build will be 18%.
The Support build will have a Critical Hit chance of about 16% for every hit.

The problem there is that the damage bonus of a Critical Hit is only about
60 damage points while a Deflection does reduce the damage by 65% !
For an Auxiliary attack that would have done 300 damage only 105 damage are left.
In this example this is 60 damage vs 195 damage. In cases of 50% less attack
damage it still would be 60 damage vs 98 damage. This does mean that a
Deflection is way more powerfull than a Critical Hit in about every situation.

< Message edited by Thylek Shran -- 9/6/2015 20:42:16 >
DF Epic  Post #: 86
9/18/2015 4:58:04   
nowras
Member

I have 138 technology anyways school came I barely do wins so I now I'm using a % build with 962 hp no one with a support build could defeat me without 3-4 criticals
AQW Epic  Post #: 87
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