=AQ3D= Design Notes October 6th, 2015 - Hall of Class Trainers


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=AQ3D= Design Notes October 6th, 2015 - Hall of Class Trainers

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10/6/2015 21:08:58

Azan
Member

quote:

Artix Krieger
Paladin

Hall of Class Trainers
By Artix Krieger on Tuesday, October 6, 2015

Llusion just finished the interior of the Hall of Trainers. This is where you will go to get new classes to play. Once released onto the Alpha Server (Zhoom says this Thursday!), you can get Warrior, Rogue, and Mage. But I suspect it will not be very long until Guardian, Paladin and Necromancer trainers appear too... and then followed by many "unconventional classes."

What does a Trainer do?

Great question! We are changing our minds right now as you read this. But one thing is for certain, they will be your first and easiest way of learning a brand new class. They will also probably have special class quests and armor upgrades for you... and they will DEFINITELY send you out in the world to seek masters of your chosen class. For example, whomever the Paladin trainer is, they will most certainly send you to talk to me (Artix) in DoomWood for special Paladin assignments.

Item Fusion... and why we need to talk about this now.

This is probably my favorite upcoming feature of AQ3D. The ability to combine any two items of the same element into a new item. I just wish it was possible to have this feature ready for BETA (which it is not.) Item Fusion will change the way classes work (for the better)... so it is important for us to talk about this now.

Right now, for the Guardian Class, we have to offer a new set of armor pieces ever few levels. Take the helm for example. there is a level 1 version. But when you reach level 10 you will definitely need a new one with better stats. Then, you will need yet another at the current level cap of 15. But then we run into a more serious problem... if the level 15 Guardian Helmet is the best item in the game, why would you go ever questing for any other helm?

The solution? Easy. Item Fusion. We can give the Guardian helm unique art and a perk. If you go questing for more powerful items, but you want to have the "guardian look" you can fuse the two items together keeping the look and perk of the guardian helm, and the stats and power of the other helm.

Of course it will be a while until Item Fusion enters the game... so we will have to just make do and be creative for now.

QUESTION: Have any great name suggestions for our first few trainers and the training master?

Tagged! ~Gingkage

< Message edited by Gingkage -- 10/6/2015 21:30:04 >

Post #: 1

10/8/2015 3:37:22

Vypie
Member

It would be much more simple and intuitive to just have 2 Equipment slots for each part of the body.

A stats slot, and a cosmetic slot.
Then add a small button to the corner of the equipment window that swaps between the two types of slots (to save screen space).

If the cosmetic slot was empty, you would see the default look of your combat equipment.
You could swap around everything in your own way, without limitations. You could keep your favorite look without having to fuse a new upgrade all the time. Make it so you simply pay a small fee when you want to insert/swap a new item on the cosmetic window.

Item fusing is a fixed choice that punishes experimenting and creativity. You can easily end up having to farm the same item over and over, just so you have enough for upgrades or different builds. (Unless you could fuse items with other fused items, but that's far from optimal, and doesn't solve much).
And imagine if you wanted to keep two different sets of costumes. If you go with the fusion, you would not be able to do any of that. The new look would have to replace the last, basically destroying that item you collected and could have been used in another future costume of choice.
And then what? You would have to farm a super rare item again? =/

Instead of creating thousands of possible different armors, just keep it simple, let the items stay separated so it doesn't cause confusion when you want to link in the chat or tell someone which armor is what.
Make each type separated, and you can be free to try things without feeling you might be wasting an item.

Seriously, check Wildstar. They have a "holo wardrobe", which is essentially a cosmetic equipment window, except you can also modify the colors of items with dyes. It's like a "fake" holografic projection on top of your regular armor. Quite fitting in the futuristic setting Wildstar has.
Here, we have magic. Problem solved! :)

Epic

Post #: 2

10/8/2015 15:16:11

David the Wanderer
Legendary AK!

Vypie raises a good point. I was interested in the "fuse" feature, but I guess having both equipped items and cosmetic items might be a better option, especially because I know AE already has experience with this (DF), and would probably be easier to code anyways.

AQW

Post #: 3

10/8/2015 17:37:30

SocknBoppers
Member

One reason I'm all for the Fusing system is that if we have to wait a month or longer per release then I'd like for the game to have the best longevity it can have. Farming for some of the hardest, most powerful gear might give us something to do and increase the lifespan between releases.
Sure it'd be easier to have a tab for appearance and a tab for stats but you get that powerful item once and now you're set until the next most powerful item comes out.

Not to mention the supposed perks Artix talked about in this post. Would they be applied only from the stat tab? If so, let's say I like the perk alpha knight armor comes with but it doesn't scale into lategame? With an appearance tab it's lost but the fusing system will let me scale it into late game.
I'm not against an appearance tab at all, but i feel this fusion system will have me playing for longer.

Post #: 4

10/8/2015 22:21:28

Vypie
Member

@SocknBoppers

By perks, They probably are talking about the stats. Things such as +3% critical chance, for example.

Regardless of what perks are, I think you are misinterpreting how fusion would work. Fusing items keeps the stats of ONE item, and the look of of the second item. You would not be able to transfer perks/stats of your old armor to the newly acquired high level armor.

Epic

Post #: 5

10/9/2015 9:36:49

Gorillo Titan
Member

This game I once played had a weapon fusion that caused one weapon to become better but it passed over a stat but would raise the weapon in level so each time it would cost more so it was best to not do fusion a lot unless you were sure about the stats you wanted passed over.

Post #: 6

10/9/2015 15:30:52

Caststarter
Member

I think this part has been glanced over...

quote:

The solution? Easy. Item Fusion. We can give the Guardian helm unique art and a perk. If you go questing for more powerful items, but you want to have the "guardian look" you can fuse the two items together keeping the look and perk of the guardian helm, and the stats and power of the other helm.

So actually apparently, stats and perks are completely separate. So actually, whatever item you want to keep the perk of, you also inherit the look of it. While of course having the stats and power of the other. Essentially what this means, however, is that if you wanted to have a certain perk in the first place... you have to have the item you want to be visible in which you might not like it. Which is kind of ruining the entire point of this entire system. You WANT to look one way and still have the best stats possible in regards to what you want yet the perk being absolutely reliant on what the visible item looks like is... strange to say the least.

Post #: 7

10/9/2015 19:43:31

Vypie
Member

Agreed. Perks should stay separate from the look. It would go against the whole point of customization.

I get that they might want to make it so that when you see someone wearing a Guardian Helm, you can tell what kind of perk/ability that person is using. But we don't need that at the cost of a good customization system.
Just keep the perks and stats from one item, and the look of another. Make it simple.

But I understand. You may want to keep your OLD special perk on your high level upgrade. Maybe the perk is ICONIC to the armor, THE special thing about it. But I guess you have to choose. There's situations where it would be worse:
-There will always be new upgrades with newer Perks that would would rather have. But if you want to keep the look of your old beloved armor, its perk would overwrite the perk you really want.

So having the perk sided with the look could be nice in some occasions, and bad on others.
But it would ALWAYS make the visual customization worse.

Epic

Post #: 8

10/10/2015 0:36:44

Gorillo Titan
Member

@above wouldn't that make pvp a lot harder since you wouldn't have an idea of what the other person was going to do since they have differnet armor that wouldn't match the stats?

Post #: 9

10/10/2015 1:16:28

Vypie
Member

But that's the whole point of having customization in the first place! Not looking like the armor you are wearing underneath.

If perks are a big thing like passive abilities and such, people will not be able to choose freely. Players will choose perks over looks all the time, because it is a combat oriented thing.

And in all seriousness, when was the last time you were fighting a player and were like "Oh, this guy has these pants equipped, I better watch out for the special effect"?
The answer is, it doesn't matter one bit. In the heat of combat you barely have time to pay attention to such detail, specially when enemy players are small on your screen, are moving and casting special effects around them.

I'm not saying this in a harsh tone, I just want to get the information across directly. :)

In most mmos, each class has different specializations and talents, as well as different abilities altogether. Yet, they share the same armor. And that isn't a problem at all . Only in the middle of the combat you will see what the enemy uses, not before.
And don't forget, the same can be applied to you. Enemies won't change their way of playing just because you have a passive ability that increases attack% when you apply a stun on someone, for example.

You can look like a super low level with rags all over you body and a rusty dagger, and players will never be deceived by it.

Anyways. About perks, I can't see them becoming usable abilities that you click.
Probably just passive buffs and proc effects. If you have a perk per item (they gave an example of 'Guardian Helm' having a perk), you could end up with a huge amount of bonus effects from various pieces of gear at once. How is the opponent expected to even keep track of all that?
Even in games where there's no visual customization, players don't even care about it during combat, it makes minimum difference, and you should rather be paying attention to the combat itself.

< Message edited by Vypie -- 10/10/2015 1:20:04 >

Epic	Post #: 10

10/12/2015 14:31:09

LyRein
Member

I prefer fusion.

You know so when you think of AE you don't think of a generic japanese-inspired f2p mmorpg?

Can we at least have some originality for this game?
Fusion also makes gold useful for once and extra equipment slots would be unnecessary coding.

< Message edited by LyRein -- 10/12/2015 14:32:14 >

Post #: 11

10/12/2015 19:48:05

Vypie
Member

Well, they seem to take plenty of inspiration from Japanese stuff they love, even if most games you might be talking about are actually Korean.

I agree with having something original. But having an original system of customization is not the same as having an original idea by itself.
In the end, the purpose of fusion/cosmetic slots is to make an idea work. This idea of making our character look how we want, is not a new idea at all. Going with a worse system just to do it differently is not good solution.

About the gold issue, you would probably have to pay a fee every time you would update your cosmetic look.

As for the coding, well, I'm not an expert on it, but I wouldn't say that duplicating an already existing window/tab would be useless work. It could even be easier than implementing said fusion, as stated by David up in the 3rd post.

In any case, Fusion would most likely be the worse option. Fusing is irreversible, mistakes would be frustrating (you have to think that if they CAN happen, then they will).
If you changed your mind about what you want to look like, it would take too much work, and items would be lost forever.
You wouldn't be able to have two or more sets of 'costumes' to swap around if you feel like.
Fusing can create TONS of different items, which would cause confusion, and who knows what else due to so many new items being generated in the game. (What would be the implications of that?).

Sorry if I'm repeating myself on some stuff, but I really want this point to get across.

Epic	Post #: 12

10/13/2015 18:00:42

Trancendus
Member

Do it Trove Style then.Be able to upgrade a Stat Item to what level you need. Of course you'll need materials.

Post #: 13

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