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Ranking System (Revamp 2.0)

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10/14/2015 10:03:16   
Lord Machaar
Member

After the ranking system revamp 1.0 I've suggested wasn't "happily welcomed" http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=22028503
I will give another suggestion based on the replies and it goes like this:

- Starting from rank 20, EXPERIENCE EARNED FROM NPC WINS DO NOT COUNT TOWARDS YOUR TOTAL EXPERIENCE.***
Yet it can count toward an isolated ranking system that earns you NPC ranks only.

This will mean:
- After rank 20all the experience earned from NPC battles won't help you rank up.

Simply why:
- When I speak about ranks, I say both PVP and NPC advantage, yet in order to gain this advantage, you should earn it fair and square, in order to have PVP advantage, normally you need to play PVP and
earn your PVP advantage through there. But is this what we see?
We see players who use botting programs while they are off the game to farm NPCs, earning them unfair ranks. Sure there are those who play NPCs themselves, but still winning NPC battles shouldn't give
you a PVP advantage.

I think the suggestion is pretty clear, so anyone after rank 20 who is to lazy to PVP, he/she will stay rank 20, yet currently, someone who is lazy to play PVP, he/she will simply use a botting program to earn
more ranks, at the end of the day, they come here to cry about PVP advantage. Irony.

I also think revamping ranks is a crucial thing, it has been done before through enhancements, I'm sure with good compensation this time, everything will go smooth. Otherwise, I think it is better to shut the
game, or write at the homepage "Player Vs Player Online Battles until Level 40 Then the game ends", because once you reach that level, you will face players that are light years away from you, whether they
earned that advantage through their own effort or using illegal ways, and thanks to the low player base, we won't have enough mid-ranks players to face them, putting high rank players face to face to level 36s.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 10/14/2015 15:43:46 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 1
10/14/2015 15:13:49   
nowras
Member

Supported.

Becuz yea after u reach rank 20 u become even better than rank 80s becuz of underdog mode.
AQW Epic  Post #: 2
10/14/2015 22:04:34   
Thylek Shran
Member

Supported because then more players will quit and those who are left will have less server lag.
Machaar, you donīt seem to understand the psychology of botting and its not a special problem
with Legendary ranks. Maybe you only want an advantage as you already have alot ranks so
that other players cannot folllow you up that fast. Nearly every time when I do 1vs1 some people
ask me if I am botting just because my character has alot ranks and NPC wins. The people who
suspect me and other NPC farmers to bot are only jealous and are looking for capabilities to
deny their own lazyness and failure by projecting them on others. Just do some daily NPC wins
and you do not have to make suggestions like this one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection
DF Epic  Post #: 3
10/14/2015 22:16:42   
Noobatron x3000
Member

^ people are going to leave anyway other then the high ranked players unless they remove the pvp advantage from ranks .

The game would be poorly balanced with 40 levels it just doesn't have the playerbase

With ranks matchmaking balance is absolutely diabolical and preventing the game from being able to grow.

PVP advantage from ranks has to go, Or the server numbers wont return to where they once were.

People wont put up with such a glaringly obvious broken mechanic now a days.

Sure the guys who are high ranked will be mad.

But if you want the game to go back to more then 200-300 people on average you need to upset them.

The server numbers went down by a 1/3 with the implementation of omega , It wasn't till ranks and power creep became visible that the number truly took a nosedive.
Post #: 4
10/14/2015 23:27:26   
Thylek Shran
Member

Well I warned about this when Legendary Ranks got introduced as the consequences
was obvious. Now there is the fatal situation that both options (no change, remove rank power),
could lead to another massive loss of players. In long term a change would be better
but players with Legendary characters would want a settlement for a power loss as they
worked on ranks for months and up to 1.5 years. However the underdog mode basically
destroyed the PVP power bonus of ranks and made Legendary ranks obsolete in 1vs1
so not much would change. For balance it would be better to remove PVP power from
Legendary ranks and to remove the underdog system as its a fail. Lower ranks could be
more powerfull than high ranks and high ranks have also a huge disadvantage in 2vs2
by poor matchmaking.
DF Epic  Post #: 5
10/15/2015 0:04:49   
Mother1
Member

I said this before in the first thread and I will repeat my response.

They tried something like what was suggested here once before in the form of the beginning of omega which made NPC not give EXP or wins to try and make the game completely PVP based. Needless to say not only did many people voice opposition to it but many players outright quit due to not only this but Bad balance not being fixed.

People complained and screamed they wanted NPC wins and EXP back, and the end result was the staff giving most of it back.

So could you please explain to me how is this idea not a modified version of what they attempted and failed out a few years back?
Epic  Post #: 6
10/15/2015 0:46:49   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 This doesn't really fix the initial problem that ranks has, which is that they inherently make matchmaking really unfair since they basically extend the level cap by another 100+ "levels" with minimal benefits that add up. Because of this people won't be matched against others of almost completely equal stats most of the time since there's such a huge field of EXP distribution among players of all different amounts of play types.

Ranks also inherently provide a better benefit for tank builds where the damage increases are flat and so the lower base values are magnified by a pretty decent percentage. The other ranks also benefit tank builds a lot more since the improved field medic will give a better total survivability when used with builds with higher defenses.

Epic  Post #: 7
10/15/2015 8:23:01   
Lord Machaar
Member

@Thylek Shran:
quote:

I also think revamping ranks is a crucial thing, it has been done before through enhancements, I'm sure with good compensation this time, everything will go smooth.

So according to the post title, this is a "revamp", alright, removing ranks is a must, I'm only giving alternate ranking systems that will remain balanced for a long time.
Alright, so before you start telling me you want to have an advantage over anyone else, well Mr. Thylek Shran, while you were, whether botting or actually farming NPCs, I was playing PVP, from level 35 (December of 2014 when I came back to the game) to now rank 30 (october 2015), in 10 months, I'm sure I could've been more than able to reach rank 60 or more by botting NPCs, which is pretty legal to me.
So I think the point here is clear, farming NPCs makes you rank up way faster, leaving PVP "empty" from low rank - meduim rank players, we will end up having a PVP full of high rank players, and very low ones. Resulting in a never-ending cycle, where low rank players find themselves weak so they start farming NPCs and so on, and so forth.
By making the EXP gained through farming NPCs uncounted in the total experience, we won't see this, as in order to rank up, starting from rank 20, you need to play PVP, making PVP battles full of players from different ranks. This leads me to the next question.
@Mother1
quote:

So could you please explain to me how is this idea not a modified version of what they attempted and failed out a few years back?

Well, as you said, it is a modified version, so first of all:
- NPC wins are here to stay.
- EXP gained through NPC wins is here to stay, yet until rank 20 only. (But it can be counted in an isolated ranking system that affects NPCs only.)
Therefore, anyone who questions the staff, why I can't gain EXP through farming NPCs anymore? Well, simply my friend, because there isn't a reason. You already have 20 ranks which will help you in PVP, plus an underdog mode that will help you rank through PVP, and only PVP. Sure it will take you longer, but you won't be alone, and on top of that, you will find many players of your same rank range.
This way, high ranks players won't accumulate that much faster, and in the process of gaining your ranks, PVP will be full of players, reducing ranks difference between all players.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 10/15/2015 8:28:32 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 8
10/17/2015 14:48:52   
shadow.bane
Member

ranks are okay as they are just as @ thylek said it's only jealousy for people's lzyness :D and as a suggestion for botting why not make when u search for batt;es's X button same place as when u end the battle that way they will press it twice in matter of no time and never find a battle ( problem solved . )
AQW Epic  Post #: 9
10/17/2015 15:11:06   
Noobatron x3000
Member

^You just commented in another thread that under dog mode is to powerful because with your high rank toon you lose - 3-5 time versus every 80-100 wins.....

Just wanted to put that out there so people understand your opinion properly.
Post #: 10
10/17/2015 15:38:35   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 I have 2 main problems with ranks. The first one is that it distorts how matchmaking is supposed to work which leads to a lot more problems because of how underdog benefits certain builds more than others. The second issue I have with it is that it's very heavily based off of just dumping hours of someone's life into playing the game and not even necessarily winning any of the fights they play, or winning with a really trashy win ratio. It's like how the golden yeti tournament was pretty terrible since it wasn't a tournament at all and just a competition to see who could dump the most playtime over a span of, as one person called it, "14 days of hell."

Anything that doesn't worsen other things while fixing these 2 issues I have with ranks I will support.
Epic  Post #: 11
10/17/2015 15:47:48   
Mother1
Member

@ Exploding penguin

The whole point of this idea is to basically make it once you get to rank 20 you are forced to PVP battle if you want to rank up seeing as NPC experience will be cut off from said players.

From the original thread it which was nercobumped the purpose of said thread was to deal with the botting problem of Epic duel.

While this idea is slightly modified from said idea the same purpose is being served here in other words to lessen the botting problem by forcing 20+ rank players to PVP battle if they want to rank up.

Epic  Post #: 12
10/17/2015 16:12:39   
Lord Machaar
Member

@Noobatron
quote:

^You just commented in another thread that under dog mode is to powerful because with your high rank toon you lose - 3-5 time versus every 80-100 wins.....
Amen, hypocrisy at its finest.
Just wanted to put that out there so people understand your opinion properly.


I hope you get my point @Mother1 concerning "underdog mode" is unfair at high ranks.

Take Mr. Bane Hollow as an example, 35k NPC wins, still counting, rank 60, PVP wins? 5k, merely 5k pvp wins. You think he would've reached this rank through PVP? If my system went into play early, we wouldn't have tens of thousands of high rank player, which most of them farmed/botted NPCs. Plus, in the process of gaining ranks, my ranking system does maintain a full PVP battlefield, where battles are actually fair since you only meet players of your same rank range.

If my system went early in-game, so many low rank players should've remained low rank players.

Yet, in order to balance things out, I quote what I said in other post:
quote:

So let's do some math:
Eternal Enhance = Underdog mode level 4 = +2 to all stats.
Eternal Protection = 5 legendary points for defense + 5 legendary points for resistance (10 ranks) = +15 in defense and +15 in resistance.

And since:
Eternal Protection > Eternal Enhance
Then
5 legendary points for defense + 5 legendary points for resistance (10 ranks) > Underdog mode level 4
This is called simple math.* If A = B and C = D, and A > C then B > D.
Usually for 10 ranks in difference, you get Underdog mode level 1, in the example I gave, 10 ranks in difference, is more powerful than underdog mode level 4. Logic.**

Here we conclude that 10 legendary points, where 5 of them are invested in defense and 5 invested in resistance, is far better than underdog mode level 4 that is given when there is 40 ranks in difference.
So in a case of 20 ranks, where 10 legendary points are invested in defense and 10 others are invested in resistance, you usually get underdog mode level 2 but the shocking thing is, even underdog mode
level 6 will be pretty useless. To note, underdog mode level 6 is given when there is 60 ranks in difference, yet only in 20 ranks in difference, underdog mode level 6 is still pretty much useless.


The first 20 ranks are a crucial thing, especially if you invest them in defense and resistance, and since you can farm NPCs till rank 20, this will help you rank up faster and gain those ranks even faster.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 10/17/2015 16:21:50 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 13
10/17/2015 18:04:58   
shadow.bane
Member

^ simply i outsmarted you in gamma , in delta and now in omega ... outsmarted you how ? well let me explain , as i did in another useless post of yours ! in gamma i wait for the right moment to play , in delta i did 15 npcs every hour plus pvp that gave me total of 80 k + wins in 1 vs 1 in several accounts u already know , in omega i found an easiest way to rank and i took it ... simply i am a patient man i am not lazy to do things to empower my self . and mr.noobatron or whatever , yeah as i said and those 1 - 2 max 5 loses is due to numbers given to stats to increase (damage , block/stun/deflection/crit chance and armors) and yes even a slight % count in ed if you have noticed ... but what do rank give us ? only damage ? we worked to get high rank while underdog mode users didn't even bothered due to their laziness ... i rest my case .
AQW Epic  Post #: 14
10/17/2015 22:02:29   
Noobatron x3000
Member

^80-100 wins vs 3-5 losses with a high rank even with underdog

The only point you've made is ranks need nerfing hard and fast :)

< Message edited by Noobatron x3000 -- 10/17/2015 22:59:47 >
Post #: 15
10/17/2015 22:51:43   
.Lord Ginger.
Member

Bane got you on that one. Even comical and Conqrr did NPC, lmao
AQW Epic  Post #: 16
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