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RE: Is magic worth it?

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12/4/2015 11:44:41   
Rezilia
Member

I think you're underestimating the natural anatomy of most life in Lore. Even with magic taken from them, many creatures in Book 3 retained their intelligence. Even Sneevils would retain their anatomy, as the spell upon them only initiated the mutation - their physical forms are set in stone.

Dragons would still be able to talk, their organs would still be fireproof, they'd still have the liquid inside of them that helps them turn the spark into fire. The only difference is that the spark would no longer have elemental changes, so it would be a natural fire...albeit a far cooler one.


Stating there'd be a slave trade is going a little too far. It's true that some races may wish to partake in it, but those would be Drakel, Vampires, and other races that have already sought to enslave people before. I highly doubt the gnomes would, especially since their technology only runs on magic in the first place, and partially because they're peace-loving.


I think you're all taking how the elemental planes work out of proportion. All the elemental planes do is supply greater strength to elements in Lore, unlock their potential, and regulate the balance between them. I'm pretty sure Lorians would already know how to make a campfire; the difference is that the fire might last longer now, burn brighter, and be warmer than it would without magic.

What Lorians would need to worry about are things like natural imbalances in nature that the elemental planes can no longer stop, like ice ages, endless hurricanes, acid rain, dust bowls, and various other major defects.
DF AQW  Post #: 101
12/4/2015 11:52:08   
VJ
Member

well seeing as the rose has enslaved those they had kidnapped and they clearly do not maintain their intelligence as long as they have been enslaved.
though something that I find funny and that is any spell cast would be broken if magic is lost.

Though it is cannon that Lore cannot live without magic as iirc a staff member confirmed that lore needs magic. I just wish I could remember who said it and if my memory is correct that would mean that no matter how much 'research' that blind mage does lore needs magic.

Post #: 102
12/4/2015 11:53:23   
Rezilia
Member

quote:

well seeing as the rose has enslaved those they had kidnapped and they clearly do not maintain their intelligence as long as they have been enslaved.


They did retain their intelligence. Any stupidity that may have occurred would have been due to torture, not their magic being sucked out.
DF AQW  Post #: 103
12/4/2015 11:56:33   
VJ
Member

how do we know it is actual torture that is the cost of their intelligence?
no where does it say that is the cause of it, and unless Geo states other wise it is safe to assume that being enslaved with those bindings removes their freewill and thus making them more or less mindless slaves.
Post #: 104
12/4/2015 12:00:06   
solomi123
Member

Here we go again with all the head-cannons......

quote:

Z: If you thought the village-bound Clawkin were passive before, once shackled they are pretty much catatonic.
Z: And easily maneuvered into obedience.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 105
12/4/2015 12:16:53   
VJ
Member

@solomi123
Thanks for finding that quote, as it shows that they are mindless slaves.
Post #: 106
12/4/2015 12:29:13   
Rezilia
Member

No, it shows that they're easily controlled. Torture is a way to get people to do what you want. If they're already susceptible, torture is a valid means of turning them feral.

The chains may have influenced them due to being binds, rather than because of sucking out magic.

If they're mentally weak, anything that could mentally disturb them would put them in that state.
DF AQW  Post #: 107
12/4/2015 12:44:46   
David the Wanderer
Legendary AK!


 The chains force the wearer to obey the commands of the Rose, turning them into mindless slaves due to some magic spell which... is as bad as breaking somebody's mind by torturing them, really. The chains do not suck out magic, they are a tool for the Rose to control magic creatures. Using magic. We can all see the irony there, can't we?
DF AQW  Post #: 108
12/4/2015 12:53:03   
solomi123
Member

quote:

as it shows that they are mindless slaves.


quote:

No, it shows that they're easily controlled


Isn't these pretty much the same thing you two....

Aaany way to clarify things for readers:
- Those chains works like present-day magicians hypnotizing someone. Said person will be force into an unresponsive stupor, suppressing their mind making them easier to command.

- So far no characters have displayed the ability to "suck out magic" in general. Closest examples to that are the gnome's mana-sucking magnet and Noxus (who lose his magic power after the Darkness Orb Saga by still un-explained means). Neither of the two have the victims lose their mind and/or reduce their intelligence.



DF AQW Epic  Post #: 109
12/4/2015 12:58:01   
VJ
Member

hypnoses will not force someone to do something that they naturally wouldn't do, such as try to force them to kill someone or act as a spy.
I do believe the mythbusters had disproved that.

Magic on the other hand is a different beast all together as it could actually force you to do something you never would do otherwise.
Post #: 110
12/4/2015 16:13:51   
Rezilia
Member

But weren't the Clawkin already prone to have murderous tendencies? Aren't they also able to use stealth to collect information and report that information, as seen in Book 1?

The Clawkin already naturally did those things. All the Rose did was point them in a certain direction.

-

I was putting the point forward that taking magic away from a creature won't cause it to lose its intelligence. No matter how much magic you take from a creature, it won't change its natural anatomy, which includes its brain. So sneevils and dragons would both retain their intelligence even if they lost their magic.
DF AQW  Post #: 111
12/4/2015 16:30:01   
LyRein
Member

@ckdragonck

yeah monolithic species that are ALL peace-lovers don't survive.
so humans win again.
slave-trade is bound to happen trust me overpopulation + middle ages mindset progression + value in weaker races + economy = slaves.

guys we're the true apex predators.

also yeah fireproof insides? i dunno how that'd work. everything else the dragon can exist with.

how to kill dragons
how do we kill whales or lions? dragon can be taken down easily if lorians invest into fireproof gear and special training.

i seriously doubt dragons would have (or even need) human level of intelligence without magic though. they can't pronounce words like S E or O because of their mouth structure too.
Post #: 112
12/4/2015 16:51:51   
Rezilia
Member

We actually aren't apex predators. We only act like apex predators because we're omnivorous and have advanced hunting and cooking tools. Apex predators have atleast a trophic level of 5, while most humans have a trophic level between 2 and 2.5.

As for fireproof organs, look up Dragonology.

Most of that fireproof gear would melt. If humans wear armor, they'll get roasted. Fighting a fire dragon is like fighting a sun, but fighting a normal dragon is like fighting a volcano.

Their mouth structure allows for pronunciation, they'd just sound a bit strange when speaking, most likely relying on their own language. "Dovakhiin, Dovakhiin, naal ok zin los vahriin wah dein vokul mahfoerook asht vaal!" :D
DF AQW  Post #: 113
12/4/2015 16:55:49   
Wolfofdoom3
Member

^The fact that Bethesta actually made an entire language....Anyway how can organs acually be resistent to fire without Magic? How can a creature that big can even move without magic?
Post #: 114
12/4/2015 17:04:11   
Rezilia
Member

The same way that we make fireproof equipment, or furnaces and whatnot. There are chemical elements in existence that, when placed together, resist heat. If you've read Dragonology, you'd know that dragons don't even generate fire inside their bodies; instead, they evict a venom-like substance ("spitting" it out) and have a flint-like reaction in the roof of their mouths that catches the liquid on fire, causing the fire to actually start outside of their mouths, much like how humans breathe fire using that one liquid and blowtorches.

They'd move the same way that dinosaurs moved - based on their size and muscles. Their bones most likely weigh less than other parts of their bodies, mimicking birds, while their basic anatomies allow them to use excessive force to run and leap properly.
DF AQW  Post #: 115
12/4/2015 17:06:17   
Wolfofdoom3
Member

I don't think they can move that fast, and can the wings even sustain them?I mean I don't know how evolution could do this, some bones weighting less but some other bones and other parts of the body will still weight a lot.

< Message edited by Wolfofdoom3 -- 12/4/2015 17:09:33 >
Post #: 116
12/4/2015 17:06:26   
LyRein
Member

@above

No we ARE apex predators. We eat nearly everything, plants, meat, bugs. We can capture other animals by working together and can lead other species to mass extinctions. We can easily invent tech to kill specific animals. Sure we're not THE best predator (in terms of nature) but we're up there.

We have the advantage of being smart and can easily come up with ways to kill Dragons.
Look at our history of war. Everything we've used can be used again in new ways.

Dragons have the disadvantage of breathing fire in one direction. Even if they turn round while breathing we can avoid the fire. Could easily form strategies to capture/kill one.

About language, I don't see why they'd even WANT to form one.
They're reptiles. Reptiles and mammals have vastly different psychologies.

I also don't see why it'd sound similar to human tongue. It'd mostly be like hissing or whistling imo which sounds more epic actually.

Still would be cool to have Dragons in human bodies (i'm pretty sure that's what Dovakhiin is) or a human raised by one amirite.

@WolfofDoom3

u need to see all the darn birds WE had in this world. here's an example

< Message edited by LyRein -- 12/4/2015 17:08:29 >
Post #: 117
12/4/2015 17:11:12   
Wolfofdoom3
Member

Bro...seriously? Just compare that shape with the shape of a dragon.Dragons have 4 freaking legs as well and they are not shaped so aerodinamically (if that's the right word)Also that thing was only able to fly by hopping off cliff ledges.

< Message edited by Wolfofdoom3 -- 12/4/2015 17:18:51 >
Post #: 118
12/4/2015 17:18:02   
LyRein
Member

@above

Dragons can still have 4 legs too

tbh though they don't even need 4 legs to be called dragon.
wyverns are dragons. chinese dragons can have more than 4 legs.
Post #: 119
12/4/2015 17:20:24   
Wolfofdoom3
Member

That thing is very small thou.(Compared to a dragon I mean)Wyverns could have a very small possibilty of functioning. (Don't quote me on that I'm not a scientist)

< Message edited by Wolfofdoom3 -- 12/4/2015 17:23:02 >
Post #: 120
12/4/2015 17:25:36   
LyRein
Member

@wolfofdoom3

yeah but those pics were to say dragons could exist if Lore has lower gravity (because flight and square-cube law).

if Earth had low gravity those birds would be much more bigger though probably life wouldn't exist.

< Message edited by LyRein -- 12/4/2015 17:26:04 >
Post #: 121
12/4/2015 17:27:44   
Wolfofdoom3
Member

Well if lore did have lower gravity it should apply to all species.I kinda wonder now if Lore also comes from lore of the game.

< Message edited by Wolfofdoom3 -- 12/4/2015 17:30:59 >
Post #: 122
12/4/2015 17:29:42   
LyRein
Member

well it doesn't even need lower gravity, but dragons would then have to climb up cliffs and then fly.

Post #: 123
12/4/2015 17:32:22   
Wolfofdoom3
Member

Witch they do not do in the game.And if they did I don't think they could fly so fast.I think they would also get really tired of climbing and fall to their dead.


Edit. Removed off-topic comment.~Elryn

< Message edited by Elryn -- 12/4/2015 18:38:50 >
Post #: 124
12/4/2015 18:50:01   
VJ
Member

Lore's physics doesn't need to actually mirror ours, I remember watching a nova show that talked about different universes where their physics could easily be different from ours, like some could be made of anti-matter or everything could be reversed, ect.

so I think we can safely assume that Lore's is different from ours so Dragons could easily have very powerful bodies that could be very light yet still able to maintain it's mass.
Post #: 125
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