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Might wanna rethink gn scaling to strength

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1/2/2016 14:15:44   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 The gun switch to dex was a bad idea that just gave every dex abuse build the ablity to spam a gun with a 2 turn cooldown.

Now im not gonna ask for a nerf to gun, because that's just wrong to nerf something everyone uses just because a few abuse it.

What I will ask for is to just return the scaling the strength without buffing it at all.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 1
1/2/2016 14:57:31   
Mother1
Member

Unless the staff once again decides to change their mind (which they rarely do) It was mentioned that sidearms will not scale with strength again.

Epic  Post #: 2
1/2/2016 19:17:13   
racing.lo.mas
Member

Dexterity builds were already strong with a gun, now they are pretty op (I dont think they should be nerf, I just want to say that if they lose their gun, they will still being good).
Now gun with dex makes them too strong, and more vs a strength build.
If you are strength and you fight a dex, you dont have a way to atack them without being block.
And also with this change the gun "Frozen Fury Blaster" is dead. This gun was made for strengths builds who in some cases would destroy the gun for getting more damage, because they will keep having their primary. A dex player wont sacrifice his gun, because its his stronger atack, its like a focus destroying his bot or a support his aux.
Epic  Post #: 3
1/2/2016 22:40:47   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 They always seem to go back on their word, just like with the seasonal tank promo after the Promo Promise but that's none of my business.

Anyway, on topic, ,gun scaling with str was much more balanced as there are bots and skills that can counter strength. As far as i'm aware the oonly skill to counter dex is smoke and the only bot to counter dex is...nothing. You can use cyber yeti, strategically even, but with the low cost of stun grenade you might just get hit on any one of the 2 turns.


I sure HOPE that devs don't raise the cost of stun grenade and multi shot just because a few players abuse it. Don't ruin the class for all just because of this gun mistake

< Message edited by The berserker killer -- 1/2/2016 22:41:44 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 4
1/6/2016 9:02:33   
Thylek Shran
Member

quote:

The gun switch to dex was a bad idea that just gave every dex abuse build the ablity to spam a gun with a 2 turn cooldown.

It was a good idea because it gave strenght builds to much power and dex builds
was weak. The other two stats already had robot and aux on them, so it was only
logical to put guns on dex.
The problem is that dex did not get adjusted right since the sidearm was put on it.
Mainly its the sidearm damage table scaling. The sidearm damage should be a bit
stronger at lower dex and weaker at higher dex. Against support, tech and 5 focus
builds, dex builds are not that strong. Against pure strenght builds they are definetly
oped because of the block rate and defenses.
DF Epic  Post #: 5
1/6/2016 12:01:45   
Xendran
Member

It should have been Technology.
Not only is Dexterity's secondary effect more powerful than Technology (Before you say "but dex only has blocks which are defensive, but tech has deflections AND robot", remember that blocks are much stronger than deflections which is cause for robot damage being required to offset it, but also that dexterity also increases your accuracy which is an offensive boost. And again, primary accuracy is much more powerful than sidearm/aux accuracy), but it thematically does not make sense. Dexterity should increase your accuracy with guns, not your damage.

< Message edited by Xendran -- 1/6/2016 21:19:08 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 6
1/6/2016 12:13:37   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Honestly technology would have been a great idea.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 7
1/6/2016 13:11:54   
Xendran
Member

To be honest, i would have personally set the stats up in a much different way overall, however it's a beyond the level of complexity the ED devs seem to be willing to work with and involves a lot of asymmetry. The biggest asymmetry is the inability to actually scale the base damage of physical guns, but there is plenty of other asymmetrical stuff going on in here. It also makes a lot of assumptions about other rebalances and etc. so don't take the below as a suggestion for ED to implement, rather it's an example of how I thematically would approach the skills if other aspects of this game were balanced in a way to account for it. The goal is to create variety between stats and how they are used.

Listed below are Asymmetric stat setups based on variety and theme, whereas what we currently have are Pseudo-Symmetrical stat setups that seem to be based on homogenization.

Dexterity
Primary
- Physical Damage Reduction (Defence)
- Physical Damage Blocking (Percentage of damage blocked is determined by STR)

Secondary
- Deflection
- Physical Sidearm Critical Strike Chance (Better aim and reflexes to be able to hit vital organs.This can be scaled high enough to result in consistent damage over the course of a match on a gun-centric build)
- Physical Sidearm Critical Strike Damage (Better ability to determine and adjust yourself to hit the most susceptible vital organ when you have performed a Critical Strike)
- All Accuracy (decouple chance to hit and chance to deflect/block into separate entities)

Technology
Primary
- Energy Damage Reduction (Resistance)
- Energy Damage Blocking (Percentage of damage blocked is determined by STR)

Secondary
- Robot Damage
- Energy Sidearm Critical Strike Chance (This scales MUCH less than dexterity does for physical guns)
- Energy Sidearm Base Damage (Energy guns are MUCH more consistent weapons, but lacks the ability to consistently finish enemies with criticals before they have a chance to heal from low HP)
- Reduced Energy Cost of Skills

Again, above is not a suggestion, just an example of how I would do it in my version of EpicDuel. Hopefully this example can generate ideas and brainstorming from both the community and the developers as to ways they can balance stats while still maintaining uniqueness.


< Message edited by Xendran -- 1/6/2016 21:17:28 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 8
1/7/2016 5:12:26   
King Bling
Member

Gun scaling on tech = Unwanted buff to f5 making them even more op, even atm with ranks and +6 one can have 515 damage on their gun as a f5, scaling it with tech would only buff it to around 565 to 580, that only is the lower damage value, thing bout the higher end.
Post #: 9
1/7/2016 7:05:46   
Xendran
Member

You're talking about existing numbers. I'm not. I'm talking concept and theme.
Existing numbers are meaningless, as they are all part of a fundamentally broken system anyway that needs to be recreated to ever hope for real balance (Defence/Resistance system).

< Message edited by Xendran -- 1/7/2016 7:06:46 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 10
1/7/2016 7:23:11   
King Bling
Member

I tried to reply to TBK, dint take your post into consideration,
but ya balance is a dream, its either one thing is broken or the other,
but atm I dont find any build that is broken, I mean
////////////Dex<<////////////
///Str<<//////////F5<</////
/////////Supp<<////////////
which means, f5 can beat dex easily
on the other hand supp can beat f5 easily
with crits its even more easy,
str can beat supp easily,
dex can beat str with sufficient blocks, and
so the cycle goes on

< Message edited by King Bling -- 1/7/2016 7:24:35 >
Post #: 11
1/7/2016 7:53:36   
Xendran
Member

TBK was responding to me saying it should have been tech. The second post isn't what I was talking about either, the entire idea of me saying it should have been tech is also ignoring all current numbers because they're broken at the core anyway. It also involved some changing of mechanic alignment, but not to the extent of the 2nd post.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 12
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