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War 2.0 Redux

 
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1/16/2016 19:14:25   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


Goals
    1) Decrease the pay-2-win advantage in the current war system
    2) Keep the profitability of the war system up to allow continued development of other aspects of EpicDuel


As war draws near on Delta V we are once again faced with the biggest challenge of this system: profits vs enjoyment. Both of these are incredibly important as profits keep the team in one piece and enjoyment keeps the player count from dropping at a faster rate. Now that we have established our goals and the challenges we will be facing we can break it down piece by piece.

Varium bombs
This is the source of most of the issues players have the wars. The ability to drop very large quantities of super bombs during a war rally heavily skews the war in favor of big spenders. Now I have two main changes that may address this; increase the price from 165 to 400 Varium and add an event timer that doesn't allow you to use more than 10 drops in five minutes. The price increase changes the price of a super bomb from $0.825 to $2 and instead of buying 60 bombs a package you are getting 25. This is a pretty steep cut to hording as the same money gets you half of the bombs. The next change is the event timer that should not effect free users including those with the War Core unless they manage to get sub 30 second wins including load times and with a perfect win rate. The original idea had the timer at 10 minutes but that seemed like it would be too restricting to low levels and fast win builds and I wanted the timer to only impact people who wished to by-pass PvP entirely.

War Core
The normal war tactics fall into two camps for players. Use War Cores until they are broke and dropping steady supplies of bombs all the while or farming super bombs and until a rally comes along so you can drop nine/ten super bombs. If you allowed super bomb drops during the use of war cores it would increase the value of war cores as a Varium product and allow more normal users to compete on the use of Super bombs. The war core is already a credit sink so I don't see why there is the need to have the restriction from super bombs on it especially if the drop rate remains the same weather you are using the core or not.

Battle Influence
Unlike the main two points in the previous part of this idea we aren't just dealing with number tweaks here but changes to the war system itself to reward PvP fights that don't end in a bomb drop. Fights that end without a war drop are a pretty regular complaint and a possibly way to address this is that in every match between opposing alignment members 1% of the damage done ends up going against the health an enemy war objective. Lord Machaar went to further this idea by point out all fights during a war should count towards personal influence but only fights between opposing alignments would count towards war influence. I don't know if he realized this at the time but this would serve as a kind of balancing mechanic as the side with less members would earn more chip damage to objectives but statistically less bomb drops and while the other side earns statistically more bombs but less chip damage due to more same alignment matches.

As always I want as much feedback as possible so have fun picking apart the idea
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 1
1/16/2016 19:31:36   
Alphaeus
Member
 

I have been playing for years and years, and have only spent a TOTAL of 15 bucks on this game, so leveling out the playing field for straight cred players is simply wonderful.

Also, I do like the battle influence modifier. In the last battles, winning for me (an exile) was way too easy...the first battle actually had some real challenge, and was close up until the very end.

One thing that I would love to see is something other than an Armor as the award. I mean, NO ONE kept the armors from wins because they weren't even special enough to be rares. If you are going to give an Armor...make it a rare, PLEASE. Some of the war drops we have had so far have been awesome to look at, but they were worth more as sellable items to recoup the cost of War Commander cores.

That's my biggest bone to pick. I'm getting ready to go online, so I might find something else there...but not otherwise...
Post #: 2
1/16/2016 20:02:07   
The berserker killer
Member

 

Varium Bombs: I'm not just saying this as a varium player, because I don't buy bombs anyway, but raising it to 400 does indeed push players away from buying the bombs but it's also ruining the players of devs. Varium is becoming more and more devalued as things become overpriced and varium features/gear is given to free players. But listen to this: Instead of raising the price or having an ammo depot where you can buy bombs, why not have a Varium War Commander that guarantees Super Bombs for the next 20 wins? 95 Varium Cost.

War Core: For the war core, I love your idea of having it to include super bombs and since super bombs aren't a varium only feature then it should definitely include superbombs. I don't understand why it doesn't already. But if Varium Players can have a shortcut to super bombs, why can't free players have a shortcut to free bombs? What I suggest doing is having 3 war commanders:

x10 War commander: 2000 credits
x25 War Commander: 4500 Credits
Unlimited War Commander: 20,000 Credits (or maybe a 2k Varium Price?)

I must say, 10 battles flies by really fast. So it's such a hassle to have to keep putting on war commander after war commander. With a x25 Version and a Unlimited Verison, players can focus on PVP without wasting valuable time (especially when its laggy) to put on a simple core.

Battle Influence: I also support this idea. Only the matches between opposing alignments should count as it is a war between Legion and Exile.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 3
1/16/2016 21:54:32   
Satafou
Member

Keep the profitability of the war system up to allow continued development of other aspects of Biobeasts* Sorry it had to be said...
Post #: 4
1/16/2016 22:11:44   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


You must have missed the Hot Pepper video as well as the tweets about the social media campaign we are currently setting up while we wait for BioBeasts to be approved by Apple. BioBeasts is now going to have to stand on its own for development with the exception of bugs that we missed in the testing group.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 5
1/16/2016 22:28:23   
Alphaeus
Member
 

@The beserker killer mentioned a point that I presented nearly a year ago.

Have a permanent War Commander. I guarantee that I would buy it, and I would be willing to spend Varium to do it...which is saying a lot, considering I have spent a grand total of between 15 and 25 bucks on this game in a period of four or five years...maybe longer.

Heck I would spend 4k varium on that.

The way I see it, even with max credit boosting -- which requires varium anyway -- it is impossible to make 2k creds in just 10 battles. I can make about 2k in 25 battles (and THAT is doing mostly Jugg), and I use that for buying the Tech Boost cores. So I stop buying the cores that are valuable for my builds...I STILL can't afford to do War Commander. Now, I still do it...usually by going nuts on quests to make up the extra money...but still....

War Commander creds cost needs to drop, at least to 1k. THAT is manageable.

Okay...I'm done now... :)
Post #: 6
1/17/2016 0:18:58   
racing.lo.mas
Member

As a varium player, I dont agree with the change of war bombs (anyway I havent bought bombs for wars yet). Varium value has been falling since omega came.
Maybe, if you want to make the bombs fair between exile and legion: you can see the gifters on the last event, check their alignment, the varium that they have spent and then, make the bombs a bit expensive for the alignment that has more varium spenders.
All knows that exile is better, and there you can find most of varium spenders, so the bombs for them should be a bit expensive. Or just make the legion bombs a bit cheaper, so maybe some legion players can get atracted about the low price and then spend varium on it.
But if I have to choose, maybe is better make them a bit expensive for exile.

I agree with allowing war commander to drop super war bombs.
There you can find different variants:
-War commander that costs 3.500 and allows you to get a drop every fight with a % to get a super war bomb.
-War commander that costs 4.000 and gives 5 normal bombs and 5 super bombs
-War commander that costs 10.000 and drops all super bombs.
Or as Ghost God said:
-Unlimited war commander that cost 50.000 or 100.000 and gives all nomal bombs
-Unlimited war commander that drops normal bombs with a % of super bombs 150.000
-Unlimited war commander that drops all super bombs 10.000/20.000 varium
Of course an unlimited boost have to be expensive, because it will allow players to get free bombs for the next war and the new cycle comming. Obviusly players getting this core, will have problems with the core. They wont be able to get another passive in the weapon, so practically the weapon will be reserved for war. Also you will get one of those cores for 1 weapon, if you change class/build and you need another weapon , you wont be able to use this core. So players getting one of those cores need to be smart choosing the correct weapon.
Also you can make a core unlimited that increase the % of getting a drop, but not giving a 100% chance.

I like the idea of inflicting a % of the damage done in a opponent of the opposite alignment.
That will focus the war in the fight between exile and legion, it will have sence.
Maybe, the only problem is players complaining for dont getting an opposite alignment. But it just will that there arent a lot of legions as exile.
Epic  Post #: 7
1/17/2016 1:24:13   
Xendran
Member

When talking about the kind of 'value' you guys are referring to (Paying to cause other players who are already likely worse off financially than you to also lose to you in aspects of the game, due to things unrelated to game skill) Varium should be devalued, and devalued straight down to to 0.
All the value of varium should be convenience and cosmetics. The problem is that they don't actually have appropriate cosmetic systems in place yet to actually do this.

You have to choose: A legitimate war, or varium bombs. You cannot have both.


< Message edited by Xendran -- 1/17/2016 1:28:32 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 8
1/17/2016 2:06:46   
Lord Machaar
Member

@OP:
The idea I suggested concerning war influence, works only if the war counts on influence per battle, not a mixture between influence gained through PVP battles and influence gained through bombs.

I will bring the same example and try to tweak my idea:
10 battles, 6 of them are battles between players of different alignments, other 4 are battles between players from the same alignment, my idea suggests that only the influence gained through battles of players from different alignments should count towards the war, while influence from other 4 battles should count into personnal influence only.

All here is perfectly fine if only the war system counts on influence gained through PVP battles only, but if we add bombs too, then we have 2 tweaks that could make this idea work. Bomb drops could happen in any battle, cross or same alignment battles, therefore:
- Whether make bomb drops chance 0% in same alignment battles while higher the chance in cross-alignment battles.
- Or, just elongate the idea and make influence gained through bombs count in personnal influence only (bombs gained through same alignment battles)

Now this idea of mine is important because there is a huge difference of active players in each alignment, and we could have way more same alignment battles (exile ones to be exact) than different alignments battles, basicallly exile players playing a war against themselves and winning either way (and this what was happening in the last wars). This wasn't a problem at all when we had war filter or alignment filter (IIRC the name) aka you can only face an opponent from a different alignment of yours. But this is currently impossible as the player base is so low and battle starting up time would be doubled, especially in 2vs2.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 1/17/2016 2:14:17 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 9
1/17/2016 9:06:24   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


@Ghost God The cores are set at 10x limited values because you can only hold 10 drops before the system cuts you off. Doing a higher value on the limited core may lead to wasted charges where you win but physically can't hold anymore bombs. As for the super war commander core I like the idea as a replacement to the Varium bombs but I think the price needs to be higher than that of a standard War Core as you should be doing double the damage of a standard war core.

@Racing I don't think you can do adjustments based on spending as that isn't something that should be a constant. While it isn't 100% you can set player activity in a previous war as a constant so long as the wars are close together but money use is going to random at best. Now I like the idea of the half and half war core but I don't know if anyone would buy it isn't of saving up the little bit of credits for the full one or buying more varium.

@Lord Machaar I like it

@The comments on a permanent War Core. If we did the idea of a limited core for super bomb drops then having the permanent War Core would require a core bank. To my knowledge that idea was never shut down by the dev's but I also don't know what the timeline on getting something like that done would be and the smaller of a scope this idea has the more likely it is to be picked up on
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 10
1/17/2016 9:51:11   
racing.lo.mas
Member

If they made a x25 core, you wouldnt waste the charges. If you have 10 bombs and the core in your primary, you dont get bombs and neither lose charges.

War commander with super bombs instead of buying bombs might work, but I guess the core has to be good enough to make a varium player use it.
Of course buying bombs depends of the economy of the player. But making bombs expensive wont work:
Players who abuse varium will keep doing that. Players that before could only get 1 promo, wont waste their money on that because they will see that it dont worth. Wasting it in 20 bombs wont be enough good, so they wont buy varium for that.

I think the better idea is a unnlimited varium core, most of varium players just drop some bombs and after that they stop playing. If you make a unnlimited core, varium players will buy it and play a lot.
The unlimited cores might be made. You can hold only 10 bombs, so while you are getting wins, you have to drop the bombs. It can work.

The prices from the better cores should be more expensive, but now that I think it, I guess they should be:
-5 normal and 5 super: 2000 cost the core with 10 normal bombs, so 5 normals are 1000 credits. And 5 super should be the double of it, because they deal the double damage.
So the price should be 3000.
-10 super bombs should be 4000, having in mind what I said before.
-The core with normal bombs and a % of super bombs, will be determineted by the %.
But if you are going to replace buying varium bombs with a core, then the prices from the cores should be varium.

I also like lord machaar's idea. I guess the influence should be gained when a player fight vs an opponent for the other aligment.
And I think there should be different kind of drops, like infernal war, that was cool and funny. Players would like it.

< Message edited by racing.lo.mas -- 1/17/2016 9:52:44 >
Epic  Post #: 11
1/17/2016 20:57:58   
The berserker killer
Member

 

I see wherehes coming from @Racing. Hes saying that the system might not be able to recognize that your player shouldn't be rewarded once you reach the maximum.

As for the super bomb core, it has to be cheap as it encourages pvp and encourages varium users to actually invest in it. In actuality its fair all around. Don't get me wrong, an unlimited varium core would be absolutely perfect and I don't see the hold up with it. If it keeps awarding after the individual reaches max that's no problem, its just a tiny bug.

I also like Machaars idea but I also do believe that influence should be awarded every PVP just like it was and has always been. That's just a great feature as influence isn't only valuable to your side but it's also valuable to the individual player and his/her faction. By awarding influence ONLY when a player fights another player from the other alignment you're simplifying the game by basically making it 2dimensional and saying that influence is used only for war. In actuality that's wrong, as there are much more other uses for influence.

I would like there to be +5 influence for winning against someone of the same alignment, and +10 against someone against a different alignment along with a chance for a war drop.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 12
1/17/2016 21:19:32   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


I understand you have to make it cheap to encourage sales but I don't understand making it the same price as the normal war core instead of just migrating the price from super bombs to the super war core
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 13
1/17/2016 23:24:30   
racing.lo.mas
Member

But I think the system already knows when a player can't get more rewards. When you reach 10 bombs and you have a core, you get nothing and you dont lose charges. I had for a long time a war commander in my sword and I didnt lose it spite of not being on war.

If you guys make a varium core that allows you to get super bombs, it has to be cheap. Maybe cheaper than buying bombs, its not the same.
Buying a bomb its a lot better than a core. Think in war rally: Buying bombs is perfect, you can buy all the bombs you want. You can drop a lot of bombs getting the double of influence. But with a core, you can just hold 10 bombs. And even if you play when the war rally is on, with a fast build, you will just use 35 bombs (10 that you had before, and 25 from pvps). See the difference, you can drop over 300 bombs if you can buy them.
That's why I think it should be cheap.

Hm yes, you should get influence from all fights.
Epic  Post #: 14
1/18/2016 1:57:33   
Mother1
Member

@ Xendran

I would love to see a legit war or better yet a war like the infernal one where your money did 'aid' player but still everyone even free to play had a fair shot at war hero and world domination. I lost a lot of free to play buddies due to these wars being basically frostland 2.0, and it saddens me so.

< Message edited by Mother1 -- 1/18/2016 2:00:59 >
Epic  Post #: 15
1/18/2016 4:01:48   
Therril Oreb
Legendary AdventureGuide!


It is understandable that free players or those who don't sink too much money into the game don't like how we try to keep the current super bombs in place and only wish to tweak it more in favor of the free players.
But EpicDuel still needs to make revenue and there is not enough time to change the whole game in order to have new ways for the game to gain revenue.

However, as OWA wants to make clear, we don't want people to lose incentive to fight in the war since money alone can win the war.
So if we all work together, we can figure out something in favor of everyone.

If we find that frail balance between free players and paying players, everyone can have fun.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 16
1/18/2016 5:43:17   
Xendran
Member

Alright, I've given this some serious thought and this is the best I could come up with.

The only way I can think of to truly make it fair involves creating a scaling boss, which I'm not sure how much time it would actually take these specific devs to do.
Might as well throw the idea out there. This probably will get some negative feedback in here from varium players who feel like they should be given straight up power for their money, but I truly hope the devs can see and learn from the failures of P2W in the modern gaming industry.

One thing that is actually quite beneficial about this idea though, is you can actually set the varium cost to whatever you want because there's no way for players with immense funds to spam it and overload the system.

Here goes:

Implement a boss that scales with player level (and please test this at every 5 level increment to make sure it's not too out of whack at any level range).
This boss drops a Passive Skill Core that guarantees you get a Super Bomb for the next X amount of battles.
This boss can only be fought if you do not already have one of these cores in your inventory OR equipped. (Which will make sense in the next sentence)
This boss should give an amount of influence slightly below the average amount that a player would receive in the time it takes an average player to beat the boss. This is why you should only be able to fight the boss if you don't have the core, because otherwise you could minmax a build to farm this guy for infinite consistent influence.

Depending on the length of the fight, the boss should also either have a chance or guaranteed bomb drop. This is not something that can be determined beforehand, testing will be need to done to see how this balances out.

Now when I say average, I truly mean average. You shouldn't get influence based on the idea that you are getting one kill a minute with a speedbuild, but also the boss should not have its estimated kill time be based on a minmaxed build for the boss.
The reason I say it should be slightly below average, is because a free player should have to have an exceptionally good build in order to get the full value out of that time and truly match a Varium player buying the cores. Not impossible by any means, but requires extra effort , extra skill, and appropriate core loadouts.

Varium players can simply purchase this core, and they can have multiple in their inventory at once.


Important Factors / Reasoning

This boss should not be particularly easy, but also should not be so difficult that loss is the expected result. Rather, it should take effort to win, but not be trolly. Because of this, I honestly recommend removing all RNG elements from the boss. Drop all of his % chances down to zero to make it more consistent. This is to add greater fairness to the war and cause less frustration over wasting valuable war time. If you lose to this boss it should be your fault, not because you got hit with 3 crits in a row.

What this does is allows Varium players to save potential time, as well as preventing failure.

The reason the boss gives Influence, is because this way a skilled F2P player that is able to consistently defeat the boss can make up for the time the Varium player is spending battling (Since the varium player did not have to beat the boss to get the core).
What this also does is make it so Varium acts as failure prevention. If you simply buy the core, you don't risk the boss killing you. The boss killing you costs you both the potential Influence gain from that time, AND you end up with no core so you have to redo the fight.

The second important factor is that if you have a build that does not do well against the boss, then you would be spending even more time against the boss than someone with a better anti-boss build because of the frequent respects. This would also eat into your credits. To avoid this inconvenience, you can pay Varium. Money for convenience.

The end result is that for most players, Varium has the potential to help them out but if they choose to put in the effort to have an effective build and take the time to have a high skill level at EpicDuel, they can compete with the Varium players.

I think that while this is not necessarily the easiest implementation, it's as fair as we can make it. Varium lets you not need to worry about time and effort, and simply participate in the war worry free. Free players can choose to either play normally without the core, but if they are willing to go the extra mile they can compete with the paying players.

The reason I've bolded some of these statements is to point out their importance. The free players are not getting a free ride, and varium players are not getting nothing for their money. If you choose to not pay varium, you can still compete but you have to push yourself to go that extra length.

< Message edited by Xendran -- 1/18/2016 5:49:55 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 17
1/18/2016 12:40:25   
racing.lo.mas
Member

Interesting..
I think it can work.
As a varium player, I wouldnt mind that a free player get a varium item if he deserve it.
And for free players this will be a big change, there wont be more players ruining the war with a lot of super bombs. And they will also have the chance to compite with a varium player.

Well, now something came to my mind, you dont want to let players to fight with the boss if they already have a core. But what if they sell the core everytime they get it, just to spam the boss?
I think then that the items shouldnt be able to be sold. Or the boss should have a time to fight him again. For example, you can fight him 1 time per hour/2 hours (depending on the time that the fight last).



Another thing, what if you are fighting the boss while there is a war rally? You get double influence?.

And the last thing:
The boss has to be hard, but without luck. So perhaps the boss should have low support and regular tech and dex. And to make him a bit tank, you can add old passives like mineral armor and plasma armor. In this way, the boss will be strong, but without luck.

< Message edited by racing.lo.mas -- 1/18/2016 12:41:10 >
Epic  Post #: 18
1/18/2016 13:12:09   
Xendran
Member

Making the core unsellable is the best way to do it. Adding a straight hard limit is fairly arbitrary, and runs the risk of ending up being too slow and not balancing out correctly, meaning developers have to come in and interfere and tweak stuff. And we know how much the devs prefer tweaking existing things instead of changing them, so at that point we'd be unlikely to see them simply change it over to being unsellable, so I'd say just having it like that from the start is the best option.

For war rally, I would assume the best way would be just for it to behave exactly the same as it does against a normal player, to keep the same balance (since the boss influence is meant to somewhat make up for the influence you aren't gaining from players during that time).

Thanks for the feedback!

I'm really liking the idea of varium allowing more consistency in the war, rather than straight up more numbers.
If a free player gets sloppy and gets themselves killed, it's a pretty decent hit to them and can encourage them to spend some varium to make up for that time as well. Not such a huge loss that they feel like the ONLY way they can keep up is varium though. Seems like a fairly good balance.

This also doesn't seem like too radical of a change, either. Scaling bosses already exist, and drops from battles already exist so all of the framework is in place and ready to go.

< Message edited by Xendran -- 1/18/2016 13:17:00 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 19
1/24/2016 12:09:47   
racing.lo.mas
Member

The central station war needs a change.
The super bombs' % of drop have been increased to 20% and also the % on war rally.
These changes made the war commander weak. I dont find a reason to use the core. The current % of drop is high, and without core I have the chance of getting a super bomb that is like 4 normal bombs.
The core need a buff, a lower price or allow players to get super bombs.

By the way, the war rally isnt so usseful as before. So I guess it should be last more if the bonus you get is more chance of drop. Maybe 2 hours or 1:30.
See this:
Before, I could still using my war commander in war rally, to get always a drop to deal high damage. Now I just have to play without the core, to use the bonus it gives. But if I already put a war core, and war rally comes, I will be complicated. I have to waste the charge first, to be able to take advantage of the war rally.

< Message edited by racing.lo.mas -- 1/24/2016 16:25:26 >
Epic  Post #: 20
1/24/2016 14:36:13   
Lord Machaar
Member

^ I thought about the same thing, and suggested a buff to war commander. But the thing is, this will indirectly buff exiles, as there are many more players there, therefore more used war commanders, and more overall damage.

The only thing that legions have and exiles don't, is the war rally, which got nerfed. It's not more than 1 million in difference within 2 days, I mean this is a clear result of how this balance change was bad.

I demand a hotfix patchnote to address the issue, because this is absurd, really absurd, waiting until friday to fix this will be too late, leading to a huge, huge gap between the two alignments, making any future balance change fail.

In the span of a war rally hour, I got 1 super bomb and few normal bombs, like seriously guys? A balance change got implemented with ZERO discussion.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 1/24/2016 14:37:46 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 21
1/24/2016 14:50:55   
The berserker killer
Member

 

There is also another way to decrease the Pay to Win adcantage without directly tackling it, which will also make things more fair between both sides. Here is that idea that I would really like devs to consider:

quote:

To be honest, devs, I would really like for you guys to consider making the dailys for each alignment different. What I mean by this is that WD, 1v1, 2v2 and Jugg championships/dailys wont be awarded to just the faction with the most wins or influence that day. Instead it would be awarded to both the top legion and exile factions of that day .

Why you ask? Well players mainly like 1 thing more than anything and that 1 thing is called "winning". A player would choose to win over any thing else which is why so many players want to become exile. We have the heavy spenders and, in war, only 1 side can be rewarded with the war prize. So follow a long with me for 1 minute.

By making those rewards go to the top legion and exile factions, instead of just 1, there are 2 chances to win the daily or WD: Legion and Exile. In its current state exile top wins are an average of 1400 1v1s and 380 2v2s (jug is a different story since theres not really a challenge there).

But for Legion? The highest legion fac wins you're going to see, for now at least until this idea is implemented, is an average of only 300 1v1 wins, about 100 2v2s and, once again, jug is a different story.

So what'll happen then? Well players love winning. If it is that easy for any legion faction to win 1v1 or 2v2, plenty of players would switch in no time to "abuse" this feature.

Almost done. So Players switch over, create a legion faction, get all happy with winning daily legion championships back to back and before you know it more and more players switch over. This feature will, undoubtedly balance out the sides.


Racing has suggested that you could even separate it into 3 leaderboards: Exile, Legion, and Both which is also a good idea but that would require a LeaderBoard Screen revamp (which isn't necessarily a bad thing, change is good.

What this will do is not only balance out the sides but it will indirectly decrease the P2W advantage by making the "Win" part more difficult while keeping the profitability up. Technically, people would just be paying to "try" to win.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 22
1/24/2016 16:34:43   
racing.lo.mas
Member

Machaar, thats the same. The higher % also buff exiles, because they have more players. Buffing the war commander will be the same.
So they should buff war commander and war rally.

And.. thats true, war rally gave a great advantage, but now its just too weak. Maybe it should give 100% drops and 50% chance of super bombs drop, that will compensate the change they have made.
The idea of taking the x2 damage, was to stop players who bought a lot of bombs and then drop them in the rally.
But with this suggestion, you will make the war rally good again, and it will be focus in pvps.
And probably, as I said before, it needs to work a bit more. With a fast build, you can just do 25 wins in 1 hour, and now that bombs deal the same damage, is not enough to compensate the damage lost.

Ghost God, I know, Its a good idea. Maybe the devs liked it, who knows, they never reply lol. Just can wait to see.
Epic  Post #: 23
1/24/2016 18:11:20   
Lord Machaar
Member

quote:

Machaar, thats the same. The higher % also buff exiles, because they have more players. Buffing the war commander will be the same.


What do you mean by the same?
Exiles don't have war rallies.
MQ Epic  Post #: 24
2/6/2016 18:40:56   
goldslayer1
Member

My idea and suggestion to fix this war issue, from my perspective.

The issue seems to be balance in wars (Player pool of Exile vs Legion), and the Pay to Win aspect of it.
Here's the solution I propose.

Solution: Balance between player pool
Dont make the wars about Exile vs Legion.

Change it up to something else, so that its unrelated to Legion and Exile.
The reason being that the player pool of Legion and Exile will have already been pre-determined before the war even starts.
Thus you can most likely calculate the winner based on the player pool each side has.

By making the wars not directly about Legion and Exile, it allows you to balance the player pool for each side better, since they wont be predetermined before the war starts.

An example I have is this, 2 Sides (Or even 3, doesn't have to be limited to 2) in where the player Opts-in to the war, and the game RANDOMLY places them on a team.
It should be Opt-in based so that the game places the players on a side based on the balance of the war after it has started, and so inactive players dont count as part of the player pool.
The player does not have a choice of picking a side during the initial start. They could, but at first they wont, and ill explain what I mean soon.

Say for example you have 2 or 3 sides.
The Wolves
The Eagles
The Sharks (For the laughs of adding a third team, otherwise just keep it at 2)

So you have Wolves vs Eagles.
When the opt-ins start, the game can place players on a side as best as possible to keep the sides balanced. This ensure that the player pool for each side isn't predetermined before the war starts.
Another reason for the opt-in is that after the war starts and is along the way and more players decided to participate, it would allow the devs to balance depending on current results.

(Example numbers)
So if the Wolves are winning 250-180 against the Eagles, then when more players start opting in, the game can place them on the Eagles team to account for the imbalance.
This is fluctuating balance, and should be able to work a whole lot better than unbalanced predetermined teams we current have.

To expand on what I meant by players being able to change sides, its simple.
At any time, when the difference between the winning team and losing team is greater than 20%, Allow players from the winning team to switch to the other team.
Players from the losing team can not switch to the winning team.

Solution: Varium
This is one of the most complained about issues when it comes to wars.
While the issues are understandable, at the end of the day the developers are going to put something in the game that makes them money, regardless of what the players want.

So here's my solution that can address the needs of both. And it primarily is based around altering the way wars affect influence.

Varium Canisters (I'd rather not have to call them by the B word) should NOT give personal influence.
Influence was supposed to be a way to award 2v2 and juggernaut players for their efforts in comparison to 1v1. It was completely ruined by Var Cans by causing massive inflation in influence for players who spammed Var Cans vs players who actually did battles.
You can still maintain a system with Var Cans without it massively disrupting balance.

So my solution is, battles give personal influence and War influence, Var Cans do not give personal influence. What Var Cans should do is give War Influence, different from personal influence.
Have the war rankings based on War Influence so paying players can still rank it up.
The war rank should be similar to a Reputation from AQW.
The higher the score, the higher rank achievement you get.
The price of Var Cans in this scenario wouldn't matter, but ultimately free players should be able to get high war ranks based on effort, whereas Varium players are free to spam Var Cans without needing to put in as much effort as free players. The difference between the 2 in the end should be negligible, and both should be able to get good rewards out of whatever method they choose.

Which segues into the next portion of the suggestion,
Rewards:
Rewards should be independent of winning/losing, and more dependent on war rank (and in turn, war influence).
This ensures that the non-paying players dont feel shafted by losing a war to a glut of Var Can spammers.

Whatever side you're on, you should be able to unlock war rewards if you achieve the necessary rank, regardless of the winning side.
The winning side gets another achievement for winning the war, losing side doesn't.

The ranks, Whether achieved via battles or Var Cans, is what decides the war rewards.
And you can have special items awarded to high ranked players. The majority of items (aside from Cores and Robots) are mostly cosmetic now due to them pretty much all having the same stats.
This basically rewards the productivity players had in the wars, rather than rewarding the winning of the war.
This way, even players on the losing side could feel rewarded if they were still very productive in the war.
Which is the way it should be IMO.

As a bonus reward, if the war happens to be mismatched and the score ends up greater than 20% difference, players who switch side get an extra achievement for switching sides.
Since you can only switch sides from winning team to losing team, it should further help balance out the player pool for each team. (NOTE: player keeps same war rank and war influence.)
The achievement can be called *Insert theme of war here* Underdog Achievement.

Solution: Match Making
Another problem in wars is match making. Previously in wars, you wouldn't be able to fight against your own team. This feature seems to have been removed due to smaller active player base.
I wanted to note that this happens because there are only 2 teams (Legion and Exile).

With the above solutions of opt-ins, and be able to make multiple teams, this no longer has to be the case.
Example: With 3 teams, Team A can fight vs players of team B and Team C.
That's 66% of the active player pool in war, as opposed to the current theoretical 50% (Or otherwise lopsided teams, resulting in less opponents for one side to fight). Thus it allows teams to have greater variety of opponents without having to fight their own teammates.

This effect is noticeably greater when you increase the amount of teams. 4 teams = Each team can fight against 75% of the war player pool.
5 Teams = Each team can fight against 80% of the war player pool.
By increasing the amount of teams, you statistically condense teams and allow them a bigger pool of opponents.

To further increase this solution to match making, while players who opted in are in a team, players who did not opt-in to the war aren't.
Since they aren't in a team, you can still have war players fight against non-war players, and the non-war players would be considered casualties or bystanders to the war.
This work around would be great to increase the pool of opponents with a good explanation for having non-war players involved vs war players.
So in this match making, a player in the war can fight a player that's not in, and still get score from that non-war player. Which further increases the pool of opponents each team can have.

Extras:
Some extras that you can add are changing the color of player names based on the team they're on.
for example
Wolves: Gray
Eagles: Yellow
Sharks: Blue

Players who have not opted in to the war dont have a color.


Overall, I feel that this would fix a lot of the issues related to the wars and make it more balanced and enjoyable.
If I get any more ideas or little extra fixes, ill come back and add it to this thread.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 2/6/2016 19:32:09 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 25
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