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RE: =DF= Design Notes February 9, 2016 - Jaania's Thorns

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2/10/2016 21:34:46   
The Jop
Member

@ShadowMoon
Good analogy. Magic is not like a gun, which can only be used to harm others (in self-defense or not), magic is the lifeblood of Lore and can create pretty much anything needed out of thin air. Like with a spork, magic can be misused but its primary use is not harming others and trying to ban sporks is about as crazy as trying to ban magic on Lore.


< Message edited by The Jop -- 2/10/2016 21:40:12 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 51
2/10/2016 22:29:05   
Solanaceae
Legendary Nightshade


 Considering their title, I think Jaania's twin bodyguards will be about as aggravating for us to face (if we do) as it would be for a boss monster to only be able to attack the DragonLord and not their guests.
DF  Post #: 52
2/11/2016 12:15:54   
Zork Knight
Member

Wars have been fought over magical objects, using minions created through magic. Magical creatures have razed down whole towns THROUGH magic. A single magical creature burned down a world, and would've done the same to Lore.

Magic is not like sporks. Magic is like a nuclear reactor. Sure, you can use it to produce electricity and help people. You can also use it to produce nukes.
Unlike nuclear reactors, magic has few or even no access/usage restrictions in Lore. Any maniac can study and use magic (or in some cases be born with it).

< Message edited by Zork Knight -- 2/11/2016 12:16:07 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 53
2/11/2016 12:26:28   
LyRein
Member

@above

Something I want to point out is if people have studied magic and are able to teach others how to control, use or manifest it.
How come we don't know why it (magic) acts like it does?

I mean you can't make electricity towers unless you know how electricity works
Post #: 54
2/11/2016 12:29:36   
Dark Lord Urmi
Member

zork you forgot to add one thing..it may be like a reactor but we need that "nuclear" energy to exist without it we die or worse
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 55
2/11/2016 12:46:39   
Jorath
Advocator of Wills


 If magic had no restrictions, why would the Ancient Mana Dragon ever drain magical sources from a mana core, during some dialogue in the Mana Dragon Maze quest from AQ? That's an example of one.

< Message edited by Jorath -- 2/11/2016 12:50:50 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 56
2/11/2016 13:18:57   
Zork Knight
Member

@Dark Lord Urmi: The planet needs mana to remain inhabitable. Humans and other races don't need to use magic to live. Those are two different things.

@Jorath: I meant restrictions placed on usage of magic. Prohibiting certain things (destructive spells, necromancy) from being taught/used.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 57
2/11/2016 13:31:01   
Dark Lord Urmi
Member

except the elements which are magic are in our blood. the thursday saga made a really really big point of this.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 58
2/11/2016 13:33:29   
Wolfofdoom3
Member

^What? Wasn't it just in Thursday's blood?
Post #: 59
2/11/2016 13:49:14   
Dark Lord Urmi
Member

no everyones its how the lycanthrope curse is even a thing remember the excessive amount of light. its also why thursday is immune to becoming a werewolf

< Message edited by Dark Lord Urmi -- 2/11/2016 13:50:39 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 60
2/11/2016 14:03:56   
Zork Knight
Member

@Dark Lord Urmi: How does that contradict what I said?

Having trace amoung of elements in your body is not using magic.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 61
2/11/2016 14:13:56   
Dark Lord Urmi
Member

why wouldn't it be? its in your person, it keeps you alive and if you remove or add any you change meaning if you were born with more or less would make you a magical creature whom by their very nature is what? magical. and i bet if you remove the magic from an elemental they would die pretty hard....also what villain is going to obey restrictions? Why thank you MR seppy for no longer raising undead armies....you too xan thank you for no longer using fire your cooperation is most helpful too bad about the whole dying thing. mechquest's reality was destroyed and there was no magic then mankind will always find a way to hurt itself and others.

< Message edited by Dark Lord Urmi -- 2/11/2016 14:17:10 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 62
2/11/2016 14:27:24   
Brasca123
Member

just remember that jaania most likely don't want to end magic, just to control it's use to the extreme, i think someone that studied magic and stuff knows that lore can't exist magic

so, while her methods are bad, her goal isn't going to bring the destruction of lore, she just wants to make sure that everyone that can possibly use magic is in check
AQ DF  Post #: 63
2/11/2016 14:31:35   
Dark Lord Urmi
Member

however there is problems with that. what if another infernal comes along or the DF version of the devourer...what are they gonna do to it throw daggers with roses on them at it while it laughs and destroys our world?
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 64
2/11/2016 14:39:32   
ShadowMoon
Member

elements are magic, thus making it so everyone has magic running thought their veins. to get rid of magic would be to destroy lore itself, lore was made from magic as was all the living things living on it.
think about it this way, if you where to try & destroy all electrical energy on earth at once it wouldn't be just the electronics that would be hurt by it.
if our bodies weren't making electricity, you would not be reading this. everything we do is controlled by electrical signals being sent from the brain to the rest of the body & back.
in df, energy is an element. to get rid of all magic would be to get rid of all elements. the rose are essentially a self righteous environment destroying cult.
if the rose ends up taking this to far, well the MS made it pretty clear what lore was like before the magic of the elementals was unleashed upon it.
quote:

???: I've been infiltrating this world since the elements first formed it.
???: Since they first polluted the perfect darkness that existed before.
???: Now, thanks to you two, I can finally restore it.


quote:

just remember that jaania most likely don't want to end magic, just to control it's use to the extreme, i think someone that studied magic and stuff knows that lore can't exist magic

so, while her methods are bad, her goal isn't going to bring the destruction of lore, she just wants to make sure that everyone that can possibly use magic is in check

trying to control that much magic is going to do no good & no organization should have that much power. to much power corrupts people

< Message edited by ShadowMoon -- 2/11/2016 14:43:25 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 65
2/11/2016 14:41:45   
Dark Lord Urmi
Member

and to add the MS was a being from another realm someone with 0 restrictions on his power and would laugh you you tried to give him any.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 66
2/11/2016 14:47:29   
Zork Knight
Member

@Dark Lord Umi: When was it stated that the trace elements are used to survive? And no, it IS different. A peasant maybe have some trace element in their blood and never cast a spell in their life.

Restricting access to knowledge of magic and magical objects should decrease the amount of lunatics with too much power in their hands. Villains wouldn't stop using magic, but with the Rose, FINALLY the government is doing something and not expecting heroes and aventurers to go and do their job.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 67
2/11/2016 14:53:22   
Dwelling Dragonlord

ArchKnight AQ / OOC / L&L


 @Zork Knight: Prior to getting frozen we WERE literally sanctioned by the government (i.e. King Alteon) to act as the strong arm of the law.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 68
2/11/2016 15:00:25   
Zork Knight
Member

@Dwelling: Telling someone they're allowed to beat up bad guys they find in their path and employing people to actively pursue criminals are two different things.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 69
2/11/2016 15:00:59   
Dark Lord Urmi
Member

zork..its in your blood removing something from blood tends to kill you also how the hell would the rose have stopped wargoth or the ultimate dracolich without the many many many mages and magic beings fighting and say a light version of one of those beings comes along without necromancy or dark magic how do you stop a self righteous being of light? the rose is a cancer it thinks its part of the body helping it along but in the end is slowly and painfully killing it. i cant wait to cut it out and i know the staff wont let me but if i could id end jaania for bringing the antimagic goose steppers to lore.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 70
2/11/2016 15:04:37   
Zork Knight
Member

@Dark Lord Urmi: Removing your appendix won't kill you. The trace elements, as far as we know, do nothing and removing them would have no impact.

Wargoth and SMUDD wouldn't be around if it wasn't for how freely people can use magic.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 71
2/11/2016 15:12:44   
Dark Lord Urmi
Member

zork......wargoth is an infernal he would have expanded his mana trying to escape the rose...the ms is from the primordial realm of darkness...the atleans are from another dimensions the rose would have been destroyed lore would have died and calling the life blood of the world an appendix is really....silly. also have fun curing mortal wounds with medieval medicine. the rose would have opposition of well id assume every country on the planet weakening everyone not to mention the incompetence of the leadership of the rose minus the bad guy who is obviously going to become a magic god by the end of the saga and the mind controlling slave collars and you have the worst organization known to lore. also sure didnt see the rose during the baron's first war you know the one where serenity ceased to exist.

want to add one more thing the dragon age templars tried doing something similar and all they did was create desperate people willing to take as many anti magic people down as possible for even a moment of living free.

< Message edited by Dark Lord Urmi -- 2/11/2016 15:18:31 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 72
2/11/2016 15:22:58   
Zork Knight
Member

@Dark Lord Umi: I don't think you understand what I'm saying.

Yes, the planet needs mana to survive. But people don't need to use magic and spells to survive, most live fine without it. As far as we know, the elements in people's blood do nothing, like an appendix. That's what I was referring to.

Wargoth appearing in Lore was directly related to the appearance of the SMUDD. Which would never have happened if Seppy wasn't able to constantly raise legions of undead and send them to attack and invade towns, if Drakonnan wasn't able to master piromancy, form an army of fire monsters and use the Fire Orb, if the Mysterious Stranger wasn't allowed to go around selling Doom Weapon without great repercussion, etc.

Plenty of Lorians have shown great scientific knowledge. Their medicine is not on the same level as ours during the Middle Ages.

Magic in Lore shouldn't be exterminated, but it needs much, much more attention, control and regulation.

< Message edited by Zork Knight -- 2/11/2016 15:23:37 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 73
2/11/2016 15:25:34   
Dark Lord Urmi
Member

im sorry but i will never agree with regulations when evil and gods have none i wont agree with people being vulnerable and trusting one big organization that will abuses its power. for some people magic is the only way they can stop the bruisers like bandits who gladly murder with swords and knives while their bodies are frail and weak. And who are we as mortals to say how magic a force of nature should be controlled to even try is arrogance beyond comprehension.

< Message edited by Dark Lord Urmi -- 2/11/2016 15:32:36 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 74
2/11/2016 15:32:49   
Brasca123
Member

now now, let's calm down before arguing

the MS is a magical being that didn't have much power in lore because it decided not to bind himself to a weapon

supposing the rose was in control of lore during book 1, they'd probably attack the MS because it could be a dangerous being, they'd also break the dragon eggs of prophecy most likely

no MS/dragon eggs->no SMUDD->no wargoth->book 1 and 2 problems solved (i do have to wonder how they'd deal with kachool though, that one wasn't directly related so far as i remember, or was it the orb that awakened him? if the orb had been broken he might have not woken up in this case)

i don't really agree with the rose, but you can't deny they have a point, they are indeed making things safer in places that have always been troublesome, and magic in the hands of the wrong people can be indeed horrifying, they are removing the masses that use magic to protect the ones that don't use it against the few that can use magic and intend to use it for evil

it's a bit idealistic, and the execution is not perfect, but there are good points about what they've been doing, it would be wise to remember that
AQ DF  Post #: 75
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