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RE: =ED= April 14th, 2016 - Power Weekend War and More!

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4/19/2016 19:33:22   
c1729
Member

@Altador987

Provided I get first turn, my win rate is well over 85%, its like a free stun to me, otherwise my rate is closer to 65%.

If you do not understand how far first turn is affecting the game, I suggest you try some quick kill support builds and judge for yourself.

Moreover, this still does not address the issue that both underdog and high ranks intentionally favor focus builds over others.

< Message edited by c1729 -- 4/19/2016 23:51:44 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 26
4/19/2016 20:38:27   
Altador987
Member

I use neither focus builds nor quick kill support builds because i enjoy a long battle and the strategy it takes in order to win said long battles. The ranking system may in fact be flawed however that wasn't the point you were making as it only referred to underdog. Your win percentage based on whether you go first has nothing to do with whether a mode or system should be changed or "fixed" as the system has to do with everyone... focus, support, strength, and all other builds included. It's unfortunate that 1st turn affects your game by that much however that's a choice/gamble you make which with any support build is a gamble anyway. Crits and especially stuns are a gamble. It should be noted i'm currently having fun with my lvl24 blood mage (which is an absolutely horrid class in low lvl fights) using a support/tech build which uses both crits and stuns as well as first turns as strategy so as far as your statement on using said builds and learning a thing or two you'd be incorrect, but then again i never expect the match to end in 3 moves anyway, what's the point in that? if i know i'll win in 3 or so moves why even bother playing at all?
AQW Epic  Post #: 27
4/19/2016 21:11:33   
c1729
Member

@Altador987

Please read my statement carefully, underdog and ranks are very closely related issues. How can one be fixed without affecting the other?

I referred to changing first turn percentage out of underdog since it (first turn) is completely irrelevant to one's level, and hence should be completely decided by support.

By quick kill support builds, I meant at higher ranks, perhaps I should have been clearer, my mistake. Since the builds lose their first turn chance, they becoming much less powerful than what they are. I find it easier to kill level 40, Rank 20 to 30 support builds more easily than support builds of lower levels at the early ranks.

< Message edited by c1729 -- 4/19/2016 22:14:17 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 28
4/19/2016 22:13:15   
Altador987
Member

I read your statement carefully the first time, frankly due to balance of class issues we can never really summarize that any other issues are closely related as class balance will always be an underlying cause of the problem. An easy bandaid fix to ranks would be to set fights specifically where ranks are treated like lvls and players can only fight others within that 5 rank range, however considering the player base that's simply not a workable solution. Not to mention that lately i've noticed especially in 2v2 the way that lvl matching is supposed to work doesn't anymore i've seen many matches lately where a match is 23&20 vs 24&27 which is crazy.

To decide solely on support is, generally speaking, unfair to the underdog as the higher lvld player has a better chance at more support in general meaning there's a possibility the underdog would never go first. Also, there were complaints of support abuse due to those whose builds relied on support always going first which, added with crits or stuns made it impossible for others to even play or try to fight back.

In all honesty it doesn't seem like your problem is with either mode but rather the fact that support builds no longer get 1st turn %100 of the time or at least that seems to be your only standpoint as to why either are flawed
AQW Epic  Post #: 29
4/19/2016 22:18:40   
c1729
Member

Indeed, That is why I suggested increasing underdog buffs to +2 per Level/10 ranks instead of current numbers + first turn chance, rather than both.

In any case, support builds are easy to stomp out with a simple mark of blood action.

EDIT: Some testing later, any focus build seems to fare well against the non-bounty support builds.

This conversation is greatly veering off-topic, I think it'd be better to continue as a PM. :)

< Message edited by c1729 -- 4/19/2016 23:53:27 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 30
4/19/2016 22:20:59   
Altador987
Member

it's a general thread there isn't much of a topic specifically but feel free. also mark of blood belongs to only 2 classes so that's not the best argument
AQW Epic  Post #: 31
4/20/2016 4:36:16   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Lmao youre talking about a game where individuals win by 1 or 2 hp. First or second turn can make or break any match. Its not the players fault, its the meta. If you compare 100 matches going first, to 100 matches of going 2nd, all vs the same opponent, I can guarantee you that the former win % will be dramatically higher. Thank you underdog mode for affecting luck factors.

< Message edited by The berserker killer -- 4/20/2016 4:38:49 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 32
4/20/2016 9:06:13   
Altador987
Member

I rarely have matches that end up with 1 or 2 hp idk what type of matches you have or builds you use but even if luck is a factor it's never down to the wire like that lol. It only takes maybe 3 or 4 matches for an opponent to become completely use to the other same opponent assuming they're paying attention to which case it wont matter who goes first as you're already prepared for their strategies as you know what they have. if a slight change in luck factors is all it takes for your win ratio to differ substantially then it would be safe to say that's a flaw in the build...
AQW Epic  Post #: 33
4/20/2016 11:06:44   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Its your rank and the luck factors gained from underdog...Not the build.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 34
4/20/2016 11:35:57   
Lord Machaar
Member

@Altador: For your own mental sanity, I would advise you to stop discussing the game with some forum members here , it's just not healthy.

On topic:
quote:

What Else?
We know you're probably wondering what the status is with the current development of EpicDuel and BioBeasts. We're writing a much larger post to address those issues which will be posted soon!

I really want to know the true meaning of the word "soon" according to devs. Rumors say NW is still writing since that day, and he reached the 124th page.

I think devs pass their infection to other ED staff members as well. I'll give an example.
quote:

Hey all,

I'll be making a post about the liaison position in a little bit, but since this thread is devolving into flaming, I'm going to lock it now.

Thanks.

http://forums2.battleon.com/f/fb.asp?m=22124462
We can tolerate the fact that devs misuse the word "soon", for 5 years now, since for them soon can cover up a period from 1 day to 1 year. But when an expression like "in a bit" covers up the same period of time, well then, it's called lack of professionalism, in order to succeed, you need to value each minute, even each second. In a world where this a fierece competition, lacks of profossionalism and ambition means failure.
MQ Epic  Post #: 35
4/20/2016 11:56:43   
  WhiteTiger

Majestic Feline of AQ3D & ED


 While the definition of "soon" is a short period of time in the future, and that is what's originally planned when something like that is said, there are many factors that affect when "soon" actually is. I know for a fact that Battle Elf is still in the process of gathering feedback from other staff members regarding the PR Liaison and I'm sure he will post the update he promised as soon as he has gone through all the feedback and selected a candidate. Since there are a lot of parties involved in choosing the PR Liaison that he can not control, while he would love to have something for you "in a little bit", other people may take days to respond to him.

< Message edited by WhiteTiger -- 4/20/2016 12:06:52 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 36
4/20/2016 12:09:49   
Lord Machaar
Member

http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=22123571
I don't really mind him taking minutes or days posting on the matter, but did he lock the thread about the same matter.
He said he will post about the liaison thingy, but he didn't say he will post who will take position, since that's what you understood from his sentence. But for me, the post I was waiting for wasn't about the liaison guy, I was waiting for an explicit post about the matter, explaining the situation and also letting members complete their discussion on the same topic. Since Battle Elf didn't even bother to announce that everybody is welcome to give suggestions, until Charfade did that. In your opinion wouldn't doing so and inviting the community to help would shorten the period of picking a PR guy?

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 4/20/2016 12:10:16 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 37
4/20/2016 12:47:00   
  WhiteTiger

Majestic Feline of AQ3D & ED
quote:

He said he will post about the liaison thingy, but he didn't say he will post who will take position, since that's what you understood from his sentence. But for me, the post I was waiting for wasn't about the liaison guy, I was waiting for an explicit post about the matter, explaining the situation and also letting members complete their discussion on the same topic

The way I saw it was that if you had anything you wanted to say about the PR Liaison, whether that's a suggestion or a question, you should PM Battle Elf directly and there wasn't going to be a dedicated discussion thread about it, but he did lock the thread because of the flaming and not to stop the PR discussion. I'm not entirely sure what else you wanted to discuss about the matter but you should reach out to Battle Elf asap if you have any concerns, or if you have any general questions, I could try and answer them.

quote:

In your opinion wouldn't doing so and inviting the community to help would shorten the period of picking a PR guy?

Honestly, no. I think adding more people will result in more time that Battle Elf needs to wait for opinions to come in, then read and consider all of the different viewpoints, I think there's enough people commenting on the matter as it is.
AQW Epic  Post #: 38
4/20/2016 13:12:43   
8x
Member

quote:

Since Battle Elf didn't even bother to announce that everybody is welcome to give suggestions, until Charfade did that. In your opinion wouldn't doing so and inviting the community to help would shorten the period of picking a PR guy?

Suggesting Front45 is the first thing you did (I assumed you were joking). If Battle Elf turned to community to help him find a PR guy, he would more or less just have to waste his time with trolls and jokers...
Epic  Post #: 39
4/20/2016 13:33:52   
  Battle Elf
has ten 1v1 wins


 Machaar, to some extent, you're correct. The process of finding a new liaison is taking longer than I originally intended. I didn't feel the need to create a thread saying "sorry still looking" but rather chose to wait until I had news. Once we find a candidate I will make a more in-depth post.

While the community is certainly free to give me suggestions, I'm not going to be picking someone based on their popularity. You guys know the community better than anyone, but I've been looking for some pretty specific traits in candidates. I'm happy to read your thoughts and suggestions. Even if I don't have time to respond to your messages, I read every one (emails don't generate read receipts". At the same time I will keep some of the process private.

I won't throw around specific dates, but I do intend to appoint a new liaison before the end of the month.
AQW Epic  Post #: 40
4/20/2016 17:36:10   
Lord Machaar
Member

8x and WT
Well, the same contempt for the ED community is what got ED to this. Devs always thought that the ED community lacks the "intelligence" to suggest implementable stuff, nor balance changes or features, and in this case, suggesting individuals for such a sensitive spot. Because, ED staff have better minds than ED players. Over the years I think you can see the outcome of this mentality. In the end the person that will be picked, wil he/shel transfer information to you WhiteTiger or the staff who helped picking him/her? I mean you are already close to the devs circle and you probably get information before anyone else, but who that indvidiual will interact with is the community. I will just bring Therril Oreb's name and leave that there, I think you get the idea without further explaination.

Back to your question WT, about "why creating a post about this matter?", well simply Battle Elf could have posted information about the position, the rules and the tasks, and those who are interested will contact him, not just those who are currently active but those who check one in a while. And those who have questions about more details can ask in the same thread, this way, other members can get more knowledge about the matter in a post everyone sees. With enough buzz, some members who aren't really active can apply for the job, or suggest other members who are interested but do not check the forums regularly. But what is currently happening, the process is taking weeks, with a huge lack of communication between devs and player, this just shows how devs don't really care about keeping players informed, about future plans or how things are going. Such lack of communication will definitely result in more players leaving.

quote:

While the community is certainly free to give me suggestions, I'm not going to be picking someone based on their popularity. You guys know the community better than anyone, but I've been looking for some pretty specific traits in candidates. I'm happy to read your thoughts and suggestions. Even if I don't have time to respond to your messages, I read every one (emails don't generate read receipts". At the same time I will keep some of the process private.


No one said that you should pick someone based on their popularity. I'm saying that what Charfade has said about the community being able to choose the PR guy gets posted on a sticky thread that is open for everybody to see. How come we didn't know that we can also give suggestions about the matter, not until we asked the question and luckily Charfade announced that? Who takes the blame? Or devs have passed the genes of contempt of the ED community has been passed to the newer generation of ED staff? Sure community can suggest, but mehh they are not as good as me and my squad.

I bet that the same staff who picked Therril Oreb, will make the same mistake and pick the wrong person for the wrong poisition, again, because yeah, the community is too stupid to help improve the game, and their opinions is inferior to yours (Staff). Well guess what, look at the game now and you will see what I mean.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 4/20/2016 17:52:15 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 41
4/20/2016 17:54:22   
  Battle Elf
has ten 1v1 wins
quote:

well simply Battle Elf could have posted information about the position, the rules and the tasks, and those who are interested will contact him, not just those who are currently active but those who check one in a while. And those who have questions about more details can ask in the same thread, this way, other members can get more knowledge about the matter in a post everyone sees. With enough buzz, some members who aren't really active can apply for the job, or suggest other members who are interested but do not check the forums regularly.


For certain roles, allowing applications works well. For Tester and Moderators, it's much easier for interested individuals to contact the team, rather than us blindly selecting users. However, for the liaison position, I'm looking for a much more specific set of criteria and a smaller pool of possible applicants.

quote:

I'm saying that what Charfade has said about the community being able to choose the PR guy gets posted on a sticky thread that is open for everybody to see. How come we didn't know that we can also give suggestions about the matter, not until we asked the question and luckily Charfade announced that? Who takes the blame?

I'll take the blame but I stand by my decision. I appreciate the feedback and will take your advice under consideration.

Keep in mind, that A LOT of work happens behind the scenes. If you're upset that the process is taking too long, remember that we're just trying to choose to best candidate possible. Therril did a great job and we're trying to find the most apt replacement possible.
AQW Epic  Post #: 42
4/20/2016 18:06:25   
Lord Machaar
Member

quote:

I'll take the blame but I stand by my decision. I appreciate the feedback and will take your advice under consideration.

Sorry to say this, but it's not your call. If devs announced that community has the right to give suggestion. You are obliged to pass on that information, and inform the community of that matter.

quote:

Keep in mind, that A LOT of work happens behind the scenes. If you're upset that the process is taking too long, remember that we're just trying to choose to best candidate possible. Therril did a great job and we're trying to find the most apt replacement possible.

Yes, Therril did a wonderful job, especially when we asked him about the LGOW nerf. So I'm really confident about the choice you will make in the future, with your squad.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 4/20/2016 18:07:42 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 43
4/21/2016 13:11:44   
8x
Member

@Lord Machaar
quote:

This is not the case, anyone can make recommendations. (Charfade)

In my opinion, it's common sense that in a situation like this you should feel free to contact the person that is doing the recruiting (BE, in this case) and suggest someone for the position (even if they weren't taking suggestions).

Devs didn't "announce" anything. Charfade only responded to your concerns/questions/whatever. Do you think Charfade specifically told BE "Hey Battle Elf, the community has the right to suggest candidates for the PR role."?

quote:

Devs always thought that the ED community lacks the "intelligence" to suggest implementable stuff, nor balance changes or features, and in this case, suggesting individuals for such a sensitive spot. Because, ED staff have better minds than ED players. Over the years I think you can see the outcome of this mentality.

In a lot of cases, devs listened to players too much. I'll give you an example. When enchantments were introduced, at first we only got 3-5 enchantment slots on our primary weapons (it was nice to even out the stats). Then, a lot of players on the ED forums were all like "hell yea!!!11!1!!1 we want more enchantments!!". And soon after, we got enchantments on freaking everything (which was a horrible idea, since we already had enough stats available to us + it widened the gap between non-varium and varium players).

Edit: ED community may or may not lack the "intelligence", but it certainly lacks objectivity.

< Message edited by 8x -- 4/21/2016 13:15:24 >
Epic  Post #: 44
4/22/2016 0:59:27   
SouL Prisoner
Member

^Yup. The same thing happened with raising the level cap. Should have just stopped at level 35.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 45
4/22/2016 9:51:11   
Lord Machaar
Member

quote:

In my opinion, it's common sense that in a situation like this you should feel free to contact the person that is doing the recruiting (BE, in this case) and suggest someone for the position (even if they weren't taking suggestions).

Devs didn't "announce" anything. Charfade only responded to your concerns/questions/whatever. Do you think Charfade specifically told BE "Hey Battle Elf, the community has the right to suggest candidates for the PR role."?


We weren't told we can contact the person in hold of the preselection phase to give him our thoughts/suggestions.
For me, that's an announcement, usually it's not done by the devs, but it should be done by the liaison. In this case, we don't have one in charge of that position, so Battle Elf is indirectly in-charge of making announcements public.
quote:

"Hey Battle Elf, the community has the right to suggest candidates for the PR role."?

Feels like you are speaking for him, and even knowing what went between him and the devs, better than he actually does. The guy clearly knew that before:
quote:

I'll take the blame but I stand by my decision. I appreciate the feedback and will take your advice under consideration.

He knew that the community can help, but heck, his squad can do better. Once again I bring the "Therril Oreb" name and leave it there. That what happens when the community has 0 opinion in picking staff members. I wouldn't care if it's a guest artist, because in the end you have the choice or not to buy their art in-game. But when we talk about a person who will be in charge of directly talking with community, well if this guy isn't picked by the community, both parts won't communicate well.

quote:

In a lot of cases, devs listened to players too much. I'll give you an example. When enchantments were introduced, at first we only got 3-5 enchantment slots on our primary weapons (it was nice to even out the stats). Then, a lot of players on the ED forums were all like "hell yea!!!11!1!!1 we want more enchantments!!". And soon after, we got enchantments on freaking everything (which was a horrible idea, since we already had enough stats available to us + it widened the gap between non-varium and varium players).

We both know the balance changes that were really needed to be implemented. You are speaking as if devs one day decide to implement all of Front45's suggestions (Great guy), including bringing rares and perma rares, and say "Devs implemented players' suggestions and look where it got us". Well duh, devs do have a brain and eyes to make the difference between bad and good suggestions. They sadly lack long term planning. Some suggestions will look great for a short period, but afterwards, and without maintenance, they will become filled of imbalances, legendary system is a great example.

But since the 20th of april DN's. I don't think Battle Elf has to post anything about the liaison position, or talk to us about the matter, or tell us who will be in charge of the position, because the guy will clearly talk about BB 99% of the time. So better look for someone who can do that, and put ED in a second place, because there isn't really much to inform players about when it comes to ED besides "Is it breathing? Yep, still alive".

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 4/22/2016 10:14:40 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 46
4/22/2016 14:11:14   
8x
Member

@Lord Machaar
quote:

Feels like you are speaking for him, and even knowing what went between him and the devs, better than he actually does. The guy clearly knew that before:

I'd say I'm good at guessing.
quote:

I'll take the blame but I stand by my decision. I appreciate the feedback and will take your advice under consideration.

Since BE, has an official position, he represents AE and his behavior represents AE. So, saying something like that^ is probably the best course of action (by telling you that you are right/taking blame/appreciating your feedback, he calms you down). But I can argue and disagree with you all I want.

quote:

We both know the balance changes that were really needed to be implemented. You are speaking as if devs one day decide to implement all of Front45's suggestions (Great guy), including bringing rares and perma rares, and say "Devs implemented players' suggestions and look where it got us". Well duh, devs do have a brain and eyes to make the difference between bad and good suggestions. They sadly lack long term planning. Some suggestions will look great for a short period, but afterwards, and without maintenance, they will become filled of imbalances, legendary system is a great example.

I completely agree. All I wanted to say is, that they (the devs) seemed to get influenced by bad suggestions way too easily (without thinking about it first).
Rather than one day implementing all of Front45's ideas, I feel like they used to get influenced by the hundreds of Front45s, while overlooking the few people who would say "Please, don't do it. No, no, please don't, it's too much. Please.".

@Soul
Should have stopped at level 31.

< Message edited by 8x -- 4/22/2016 14:14:19 >
Epic  Post #: 47
4/23/2016 13:14:33   
Lord Machaar
Member

quote:

Since BE, has an official position, he represents AE and his behavior represents AE. So, saying something like that^ is probably the best course of action (by telling you that you are right/taking blame/appreciating your feedback, he calms you down). But I can argue and disagree with you all I want.


Well kudos to him for admitting his mistake, but what's the point doing that if he still chooses not to formally inform the community about the matter. More players would be informed in that case rather than a random reply on a random thread on the forums would do. Looking for a "Liaison" in an already dead game/forums is a waste of time. Properly informing players would maybe attract other members who quitted/took a break.

Either ways, I won't really comment more on this incident, the liaison we are talking about won't deal with ED community either ways, so I don't know why they are searching here.

Oh yeah, I think that Mecha Mario would be very much interested, beside being a leader tester (1 and a half tester tester to be more exact), moderator, archknight, forum moderator, bug tracker, guest artist, guest writer... (List goes on, maybe a Wiki admin, not sure), pfft, being a liaison would be an easy task.

Well this in the end what happens when the squad gets to choose the right guy for the position, they end up splitting the positions between themselves and see who can accumulate the most numbers under his belt. Mecha Mario is killing it. Just in the end, devs can stop complaining why it's taking them tons of time to complete stuff. Well.. It's pretty clear why.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 4/23/2016 13:24:00 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 48
4/23/2016 13:52:10   
  WhiteTiger

Majestic Feline of AQ3D & ED
quote:

Just in the end, devs can stop complaining why it's taking them tons of time to complete stuff. Well.. It's pretty clear why.

I agree, it's very clear as explained in Nightwraith's design notes post that it takes long to complete things for ED since they are still focusing on BioBeasts. Mecha Mario's skills at multitasking has nothing to do with it and adding a new testers, moderators or a new liaison to the team will only help with what their position entails, but it won't help at all with development since they aren't software developers.

< Message edited by WhiteTiger -- 4/23/2016 14:10:26 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 49
4/23/2016 14:28:03   
Front45
Member


 They do not want to be game better. there are many suggestions but they is not doing. they don't care Epic Duel anymore. they care only biobeasts. delete these ranks for play 1 vs 1. decrease levels in juggernaut for wake up jugg battles. make some balance changes update mercenary, energy parasite

and game will be 100% better i don't know why they are not doing. today in ed was 92 people. and in alpha-beta-gamma phase was 2000-3500 people online. now only 200. 10x and 20x times reduced acticity because this game don't interesting no one anymore. understand. i am not getting pleasure, there is only 100% unfair battles nothing more, there are many problems and they sleep tight. sweet dreams dev team
Post #: 50
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