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More health, more possibilities! (Balance suggestion)

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11/26/2016 7:42:04   
Stonehawk
Member

Well, here I come with a crazy but interesting suggestion that can probably be a solution for many balance problems: Increasing minimum health (increase it by 1/3 (1000 health on lvl 40) or even 100% (1500 health to lvl 40)) and raising health per point to 25 instead of 12,5. Maybe even energy could be increased too by the same amount or similar. Why? Let me explain:

1- Avoid gamebreaking stat spammer builds like support builds, for example.
Support builds are brainless builds that mixes the high chance to crit, the high auxilliary damage, the high-damaging multi attack and a poison which damage doesn't depends on any stats. This usually gives no time for the other player to do something with their skills.
With higher health, the defending build will have time to use their moves more strategically against him. And since support builds have too low defense, they will have a hard job against defensive builds if they have a chance to survive longer.

2- Bring back unused skills, change gameplay and increase possibilities.
Since you will not die so fast, you will have time to try other skills. By increasing minimum max energy, people will not always depend on energy rotation, there will be energy to use more skills even if they are maxed and the energy manipulaton will not manipulate such a high % of your total energy. It means game will be more dynamic in the beginning, and the first moves could be decisive for the end of the battle, when energy is gone and skills will not be used so often unless you steal/regain it. It won't depend only on boring rotation for defensive builds nor it will end in 2 turns for spamming stat builds.

Of course some adjusts would be needed in a skill like energy parasite, for example. Healing cooldown could be increased too. Since you got double health, the healing loop should be broken for a not everlasting battle. Well, I can leave this to the testers (if they ever consider reading this).

That's it, leave your comments below! :D




AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 1
11/26/2016 9:23:20   
shadow.bane
Member

or take my suggestion into consideration which is :

increase base health 1000 keep energy the same as it is adn each point of invested to health ads 10 point and agility to be brought back to ED in a new form like the following.

1000 hp + 10 armor
1100 hp + 0 armor
1200 ho - 10 armor
1300 hp - 20 armor
and so on till we reach
2000 hp - 90 armor

easy fix and counter to high health builds... idk why remove it in the first place...

_____________________________

Bane Hallow The Last Shadow Fiend.
AQW Epic  Post #: 2
11/26/2016 10:37:26   
Stonehawk
Member

10 points of healing for 100 health? and -10 armor? This will make everyone use 1000 health builds... who would invest 10 points in health to decrease armor? 10 is too much for little benefit and even a drawback...

I'm trying to keep diversity without giving benefit to a small group and extinguishing another. Health is only health, so I'm suggesting to make it cheaper, leaving more points for other stuff. At the same time if you choose not to invest in health it's still high enough to survive at least 3 turns. Support builds will still exist with my suggestion, but they won't have 100% chance to win against defensive builds with minimum health.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 3
11/26/2016 16:06:12   
Xendran
Member

There is a way to handle it well and enforce a range of battle lengths, but EpicDuel has a lot of problems that interfere with this:

First, you'd want restricted healing and extreme control over resource generation. Health and Energy should be standardized with a ratio, and never generate more than is put in. No free generation skills should be in the game.
Because of this, energy stealing skills also have to be reworked.
This means that no matter what you're doing, you're draining from a total pool of resources (your health or energy when you take or prevent damage, your energy when you use a skill).

Youd want to increase health at an exponential rate, butt because of how epicduel scales, you'd most likely go with a linear one (so flat +hp per point).
One issue with underused skills is that despite different energy values, each skill still uses an entire turn. This means skills that output more damage per turn are always going to be better unless they require enough investment into energy to balance out the damage.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 4
11/27/2016 5:03:41   
shadow.bane
Member

@Stonehawk idk in what phase u started ED but back in delta/gamma there was a lot of diversity and a lot of players playing different classes while agility was around and there was 95 p builds 110 hp builds even 130 and 170 hp builds and it was working just fine what changed now is that there is the 10x and passives removed... that's the difference and a little more stats trust me once this if was implemented everything in your mind will change cause i seen how this works and all.

@Xendran well ur right about that but players need healing and regeneration sources without them the game just dies.
AQW Epic  Post #: 5
11/27/2016 6:24:15   
Satafou
Member

@shadow.bane That isn't necessarily true. The current meta the game is played would most certainly die. However it would move on to a different meta, where different play style and builds would arise.
Post #: 6
11/27/2016 8:33:45   
shadow.bane
Member

^ true that but imo high health should always have penalties cause let's say you faced a high hp tanker like those bh's with 1400 + hp and 370 + armors ? messed up isn't it ?
AQW Epic  Post #: 7
11/27/2016 8:53:42   
Stonehawk
Member

@shadow.bane
I started when beta was ending and I know a lot about this game. x10 didn't change almost anything in the game. When you hit 194 damage now, it's the same of hitting 19 before, except that you used to lose that 0,4. It just made numbers more precise than it was. Agility was double punishment, you already loose to invest in important stats that increases chance to hit/block/deflect/crit when you use your points on health. If you add agility, it will encourage every player to only use low health builds, which is not what we are aiming for. Diversity can not die.

quote:

There is a way to handle it well and enforce a range of battle lengths, but EpicDuel has a lot of problems that interfere with this:

First, you'd want restricted healing and extreme control over resource generation. Health and Energy should be standardized with a ratio, and never generate more than is put in. No free generation skills should be in the game.
Because of this, energy stealing skills also have to be reworked.


Xendran, you want to remove generation skill-cores? Don't worry, if health and energy was increased for every player, those cores wouldn't be so relevant as they are now. That's why I suggest higher health. Imagine if everyone had 2500 minimum health for example (crazy example, but think about it). If you use generation to regain 250 health, you will only recover 10% of your max health, not a big heal. Now if you use it on a tanker build now (750 health), it recovers 1/3 of your max health, makes a lot more difference in battle.

Conclusion is: If minimum health is increased, the skill cores that recovers health won't be as much relevant, so they won't need to be removed or changed, in my opinion. Increasing healing cooldown to 5 would prevent battles to last forever, and people will pay attention to health more than energy. No more healing loop, it brings more epic battles in my opinion ;)
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 8
11/27/2016 11:25:02   
Xendran
Member

@shadow.bane

The idea is to enforce a stricter battle length. Right now they range from 2 turns to infinite.
The fact that this game does not have a sudden death mechanic (for example, fatigue in card games when your deck runs out) and also allows infinite generation of resources is what causes this problem.


@Stonehawk
Cores are not the problem, skills are. Energy skills both generate and remove resources for zero cost and are repeatable infinitely.
Single use cores can be balanced around the idea of an average battle length (assuming that there is a decent amount of control over the length of battles).

I agree with the idea of increasing max health (or more specifically, changing the ratio of health to damage, and enforcing stricter battle durations) , just pointing out that there are a lot of problems in EpicDuel that make this solution require a lot more work than simply increasing HP.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 9
11/28/2016 15:38:35   
Stonehawk
Member

quote:

I agree with the idea of increasing max health (or more specifically, changing the ratio of health to damage, and enforcing stricter battle durations) , just pointing out that there are a lot of problems in EpicDuel that make this solution require a lot more work than simply increasing HP.


That's what I'm trying to say. I'm pointing cores as an example. But if health is higher, healing also is not so viable when it heals a very small % of your health, specially if cooldown increases by 1.*

But you said something interesting:
quote:

The fact that this game does not have a sudden death mechanic (for example, fatigue in card games when your deck runs out) and also allows infinite generation of resources is what causes this problem.

Maybe if the energy manipulating skills could be used only X times on each battle, for example, people would think twice before trying to last forever. But this doesn't fix 2 turns battles. In this case, the max health increasing would somehow fix it. Maybe those 2 changes together would make some kind of battles more interesting.

*: This will bring poison abuse, so poison cooldown should be increased too.**
**: One change needs lots of other changes, that what makes balance so complicated!

< Message edited by Stonehawk -- 11/28/2016 15:42:27 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 10
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