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Guns on old standards

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11/28/2016 1:56:46   
darksampson
Member

This should be a pretty quick fix and iirc it's been mentioned before, but there are quite a few gun weapons on the old standards of using no STR and DEX/40 which more or less handicaps the users who decide to use to use these guns. It would be great if these old guns for example Paintball Gun and Drakel EMP Gun were put on the new standard so they would be usable again. Thanks and take care.
AQ  Post #: 1
11/28/2016 2:56:42   
  Ianthe
 formerly In Media Res

 

 No, it's not a "pretty quick fix". Also, my usual disclaimer about things on old standards which we'll fix once we have the time.

...Actually, wait. Can you make a list? We don't have any kind of tag for weapons like this in the DB.
AQ  Post #: 2
11/28/2016 3:15:55   
Seth Hydra
How We Roll Winner
Nov14


 Hmm, there are ranged weapons marked as Guns in the Forum pedia. Linky
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 3
11/28/2016 23:58:52   
darksampson
Member

It's actually only a small handful of weapons. They say in the submission about the stats being changed to only use DEX. It seems like an experimental thing that they did around 2010-2012.

I'll link them here:

Drakel EMP Gun and Z versions)

Lhazor(Guardian and Z versions)

Weedsprayer series

Paintball series(Guardian and Z versions)

So yeah, literally just 4 weapons. Definitely seems like a quick fix type thing to me, but I'm not the one doing the work. Changing them to the standard would be really appreciated though. It just seems like an unnecessary handicap to anyone wanting to pick up these weapons, especially if they don't read the pedia.

< Message edited by darksampson -- 11/29/2016 0:01:13 >
AQ  Post #: 4
11/29/2016 6:27:41   
Andlu
Member

It's not that quick, there are way more guns than those you pointed out
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 5
11/29/2016 19:20:12   
darksampson
Member

There are definitely more guns in the game, but my problem is only with the ones that have this standard of using only DEX for the stats. If there are more guns in the game that have this system it wasn't noted in their encyclopedia entries and considering in these entries it was noted; I don't see why it wouldn't be in the other entries that used this DEX only system and yes I did go through every entry that was marked as gun and these were the only ones I could find where they said they used the DEX only standard.

Also missed Liquid Fire

Seems to have been updated in 2012 with the DEX only stats.

< Message edited by darksampson -- 11/29/2016 20:04:02 >
AQ  Post #: 6
11/29/2016 19:46:58   
Andlu
Member

I know what original Guns are, and there are many more
Like there is that one from harvest
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 7
11/29/2016 20:13:15   
darksampson
Member

I don't think you're understanding the point that I'm making Andlu...

All the "guns" in the game are marked as gun, but that doesn't mean that they use the DEX only stats. If they use the DEX only stats its noted in the entry on the pedia. These were the only guns I could find with that note. If you're talking about Weedsprayer for Harvest I've already noted it.
AQ  Post #: 8
11/30/2016 11:19:37   
Carandor
Legendary Scribe of Lore


 Flintlocks and Zard Launchers too. I'm guessing Gunblades would fall into this category too, since they don't get any stat damage bonus except on lucky strikes, even then they only get the LUK bonus (LUK*3/8).
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 9
11/30/2016 11:37:57   
afterlifex
Legend-X


 IIRC it's going to be any "gun" before Space Gun and Star Journey Laser meaning before May 2013.

edit: Bac-gun in Febuary of that year is slightly sooner.

< Message edited by afterlifex -- 11/30/2016 16:18:41 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 10
11/30/2016 11:54:59   
Andlu
Member

Guns don't have to have that info on the pages for them to be 'old guns'
What ALX said
Silari
Helslinger
Cosmic
Oriens
Bucaneer
Wolfbane
Dragonbane
Liquid Fire

Those were only the FIRE ones I found
The list goes on and on

From what I remember though, old guns could use STR but that would have to be told on the info page

I have researched a bit and carandor told me that 2012 was the year that they swept sellback/everything

this means that 2010 was the time they started to change guns to properly spend DEX and STR, not only DEX, but some old guns still have this. If I'm right, anything before 22nd of july(2010) is a DEX only gun

< Message edited by Andlu -- 11/30/2016 12:06:31 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 11
11/30/2016 12:14:49   
afterlifex
Legend-X


 Just depends on how far back you are going, "gun" as a type is only going to go so far back. Eventually you are going to run into just plain old ranged weapons that look like guns.

In this context "gun" is going to be the dex only weapons. There are "guns" and there are old ranged weapons.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 12
11/30/2016 12:17:12   
Andlu
Member

The thing is, everything is tagged as gun for some reason, which shouldn't be
'Gun' is what people called DEX only weapons and literally every gun, taking STR and DEX or taking DEX only, has a gun tag now, which makes it even harder to actually make a list
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 13
11/30/2016 12:21:36   
afterlifex
Legend-X


 There is more than one "gun".

You have gun the trigger and gun the type.

Bac-Gun

quote:

It's not a "gun"-gun. It gets full stat bonuses from STR on its attacks.


A "bow"-gun

bow in function but gun in trigger.

A "gun"-gun would be the now defunct dex only ranged weapons.

edit: not that it makes it any easier to look up, you just have to keep the time context in mind.

< Message edited by afterlifex -- 11/30/2016 12:24:38 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 14
11/30/2016 12:24:27   
Andlu
Member

quote:

Lvl. 145 Bac-Gun G (Mastercraft/Guardian/100% Proc)


The main problem is that all guns that are just regular no drops have that 'gun' tag
Looks, bac-gun has the 100% proc tag, while it is stated that it wasn't a gun, it just looks like one

quote:

Lvl. 144 SPARTAAAAAAN Blunderbuss (Gun/Guardian)

Now, this, is a bad example. It was a gun before, but it was updated to be a regular 100% proc weapon, but still kept the gun tag

OP was right, that happened between 10-12 as an experiment, but now that someone just tagged everything gun and didn't untag what was updated, we have no idea what is a real gun, and what isn't

quote:

not that it makes it any easier to look up, you just have to keep the time context in mind.

The thing is, we can never be sure, even if we look at the time the pedia entries were edited, most of the outdated guns were from 2012, but some were from 2013 too(Which overlaps with updated guns that aren't dex only anymore)

< Message edited by Andlu -- 11/30/2016 12:29:01 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 15
11/30/2016 12:36:31   
afterlifex
Legend-X


 A bit of quick looking and the context for these weapons looks to be roughly '10* to Feb '13 anything that looks like a gun that has not been updated since then is fair game to be looked at.

If you can't tell don't worry about it.


* with a few oddities like (old)corpse cannon which took no stats and gunblade perhaps being precursors.


< Message edited by afterlifex -- 11/30/2016 16:17:55 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 16
11/30/2016 15:06:35   
darksampson
Member

Yeah FlintLock is definitely one of them I missed. Could be a few others, I guess I wasn't skimming the entries closely enough, but I don't think we have any reason to believe that every gun between 2010-2013 uses the DEX only stats unless its listed on the page.

As for Zardlauncher, it uses CHA so thats a completely different issue. That should probably be changed to the same stats as recent CHA 100% proc weapons like Bass Guitar.
AQ  Post #: 17
11/30/2016 16:03:03   
afterlifex
Legend-X


 I would say it's a safe assumption in most cases, that's how guns were being designed at the time. If there is an instance that we as players can't tell then the item just needs to be listed and dealt with by staff.

Zardlauncher would still be a gun by definition it's just using a different stat.

Honestly find me some guns from there that were not STR less.

Looking....

All the below are Str-less guns from that time:

Nefadon Electrobolt(updated)
Gold-Emitting Gatling (updated)
Heavy Gnomish Crossbow
Paintball Gun
Zapping Flintlock
Weedsprayer
Zard Tosser
Drakel Tube(updated)
Drakel EMP Gun
Corpse Cannon is the only one I question as zard comes after its update.
Zard Launcher

edit: adding in thous mentioned above:

Liquid Fire
Lhazor

and the predating Gunblade that used no str or dex.

< Message edited by afterlifex -- 11/30/2016 16:39:15 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 18
12/2/2016 19:56:50   
alchim
Member

If it was possible to add some newer lvl versions when they get updated, that would be amazing!
AQ  Post #: 19
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