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RE: PSA: Dexterity

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1/30/2019 17:46:19   
J9408
Member

^One of the main reasons for the Stat limit change was to remove the "dump" stat problem. But it seems that things have become quite complicated.

< Message edited by J9408 -- 1/30/2019 17:57:55 >
Post #: 126
1/30/2019 20:09:48   
Warren.
Member
 
quote:

And just what was wrong with having 200 as a max stat? I thought everything was fine that way.


Its much better now. Before people with pure builds had to dump their remaining points into END or CHA. Now since they can go to 250. They can train more into INT/STR/LUK or whatever complements their build most.
Post #: 127
1/31/2019 18:04:35   
Kaelin
Member

Aura Knight: It's completely impractical to change things back, and while it was not a Knight decision to move forward with 250 at this particular moment, we don't want to roll everything out at once either. And while there are suboptimal builds with the way things are, things were about as suboptimal when the cap was 200.

BKS: We're planning to drastically reduce or eliminate DEX's role on Melee, Magic, and companion attacks.
AQ  Post #: 128
1/31/2019 19:58:24   
Kilvakar
Member

quote:

We're planning to drastically reduce or eliminate DEX's role on Melee, Magic, and companion attacks.


This would be nice to see sooner rather than later, and it would help with some of the issues people are having now. Although it still won't change the fact that the new system is deeply flawed and needs to be ironed out thoroughly as soon as possible.

I do agree that this change wasn't the best idea. The fact that you had extra stat points to "dump" wasn't a problem, it was a benefit. Taking that benefit away in favor of stacking your three main stats even higher sounds interesting in theory, but if the game is getting re-balanced around that new build set up it has little to no effect on making your character better than they were before. I know I said it before, but if anything, it just makes them less well-rounded and gives us less to work with in terms of how to play. The main point being that now, even if DEX looses it's effect on melee, magic and pet accuracy, you're still stuck with the fact that now pretty much every build (except pure ranger maybe) has become weaker in some way (or will soon be). Maybe that was the intent? I don't know.

HOWEVER, I do trust that everyone involved with this is trying as best they can to improve the AQ experience for everyone, not make it worse. I think at this point all we can do is hope that our voices will be heard and trust that things will be fixed/implemented soon. Everything I've said against this choice is because I'm a huge fan and long-time player of this game, and I'm very grateful that we even get the chance to talk about the direction of the game. Most developers these days don't care at all what their players and fans think about their decisions. So even though I'll probably not be playing as much until this gets taken care of, I still think we're lucky to have such a dedicated team working on AQ. Let's keep discussing how we can make it even better :)
AQ  Post #: 129
1/31/2019 20:04:46   
Aura Knight
Member

quote:

It's completely impractical to change things back, and while it was not a Knight decision to move forward with 250 at this particular moment, we don't want to roll everything out at once either. And while there are suboptimal builds with the way things are, things were about as suboptimal when the cap was 200.


Alright, but was it a good idea to change things without knowing how you'd go about finalizing the changes? So far the only builds that haven't been completely ruined are pure ones that used 150 in Endurance. Because that stat isn't exactly needed that's an extra 50 stats to be put in the 3 main stats. I still think you should have waited on making the change until after you knew what to do with dexterity.

I'll just wait and see how this all eventually turns out before updating stats and maybe complain a bit more before it's all good.

< Message edited by Aura Knight -- 1/31/2019 20:09:51 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 130
1/31/2019 20:29:41   
Warren.
Member
 
quote:

We're planning to drastically reduce or eliminate DEX's role on Melee, Magic, and companion attacks.


this news is a breath of fresh air. Im looking forward to how it will turn out in final form
Post #: 131
2/1/2019 7:50:30   
Bu Kek Siansu
Member
 
quote:

BKS: We're planning to drastically reduce or eliminate DEX's role on Melee, Magic, and companion attacks.

Thanks for replying.
Are you planning to reduce or elimate DEX's role regarding the BTH only or BTH and damage or?

Kaelin, would it be possible to adjust/make DEX as Main stat for Ranger?
STR should NOT affect Ranged Weapons/Skills/Spells.
Average Core Stat Damage, with Lucky Strikes Included
Ranged Weapons: DEX/8 + LUK*3/80 instead of STR/10 + DEX/40 + LUK*3/80
Ranged Skills/Spells: DEX/4 + LUK*3/80 instead of STR/5 + DEX/20 + LUK*3/80

AFAIK, the purpose of the Stat Cap to +250 was to allow players to have 3 stats only for many reasons.
If DEX would be adjusted as Main stat for Ranger.
Pure Warrior 250 STR/END/LUK, Pure Ranger 250 DEX/END/LUK, Pure Mage 250 INT/END/LUK.
Beast Warrior 250 STR/CHA/LUK, Beast Ranger 250 DEX/CHA/LUK, Beast Mage 250 INT/CHA/LUK.

How about Pure Hybrid / Hybrid and Beast Hybrid?
They will find out how to handle this to have 3 stats only or to stick with 4 stats.


Post #: 132
2/1/2019 7:55:22   
Primate Murder
Member

@ above

Didn't Kaelin already mention that Dex will be tweaked to deal around 75% melee damage? Then you could put the other 250 into Str, to deal +25% damage on ranged weapon attacks, or into Int, to gain an mp pool for spellcasting.

Given that it will also affect blocking and initiative, it seems quite balanced.
AQ DF  Post #: 133
2/1/2019 21:15:25   
Kilvakar
Member

To get back to the suggestion part of this thread, I would like to re-state what some people were saying earlier on in the thread that DEX shouldn't be the only stat the gives you blocking. Especially if now a lot of warriors and mages will be going DEX-less with all these changes. I think that LUK should become the primary defense stat, with DEX still giving a smaller boost similar to what LUK does now. That way, all the builds that will now need and/or want to drop DEX with the stat changes won't be unable to ever block again.
AQ  Post #: 134
2/7/2019 10:51:06   
aef823
Member
 

 You guys going to fix the balance issue any time soon? Being forced into a non-pet build is annoying, especially in the middle of a war.
AQ DF  Post #: 135
2/7/2019 19:22:33   
Kilvakar
Member

I would hope that they at least get the DEX changes implemented ASAP, and then work on balancing the rest of it soon after. The fact that you still need 200 DEX for pretty much any build is really crippling after the stat cap increase...

But I can't emphasize enough that if they're really wanting to balance things, they won't keep DEX as the main blocking stat if a ton of builds are going to be dropping it. Having it factor in initiative, fine. But don't make it so that only rangers are able to avoid hits from now on...
AQ  Post #: 136
2/7/2019 20:13:22   
Warren.
Member
 
quote:

I would hope that they at least get the DEX changes implemented ASAP,


+1
Post #: 137
2/12/2019 18:56:41   
Kilvakar
Member

I really think that this needs to be a conversation with the staff. Right now it kind of feels like the entire game is being changed haphazardly, to be honest. It would still be nice if we could get a little more explanation on why things are being changed beyond "three stats are better than four."
AQ  Post #: 138
2/14/2019 2:29:27   
I Overlord I
Member

Removing DEX's influence on BtH altogether is also a horrible idea, tbh. Why? Well, a BMM and Annihilator Mage will then have the same stat spread (i.e., 250 INT/250 CHA/250 LUK), which is ridiculous to say the least.

Keeping in mind, of course, that the BMM gets full accuracy in this scenario, so playing as an AM would actually be detrimental. Erm, regardless of the narrative the anti-booster crowd may try to push...

< Message edited by I Overlord I -- 2/14/2019 2:35:14 >

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AQ  Post #: 139
2/14/2019 3:49:03   
CH4OT1C!
Member

I Overlord I
So you're arguing based on two sub-builds having the same stat spread? Due to the nature of DEX, warrior and rangers had the same problem up until recently. With the cap raise, warriors are granted more stat flexibility (ranger is deeply linked with STR and DEX while warrior can forego DEX with additional STR). By that logic, a significant/almost total removal of DEX within bth is necessary to avoid that stat overlap.
AQ  Post #: 140
2/14/2019 3:59:00   
I Overlord I
Member

Non-100% proc. "rangers" have always been warriors-in-denial, so your comparison is inherently erroneous.
BMMs, however, aren't nearly as similar to traditional mages. Surely you see the issue with them having the same *magical* accuracy as a specialized mage, yes?

That being said, I'm all for DEX having little to no effect on guest/pet BtH. You'll have to work a lot harder to convince me (and the staff, no doubt) that it should have no effect on non-ranged player attacks at all, though. A less significant effect than now is one thing, but rendering DEX as impotent as END decidedly isn't the way to go.

< Message edited by I Overlord I -- 2/14/2019 4:04:22 >
AQ  Post #: 141
2/14/2019 3:59:30   
Warren.
Member
 
quote:

Why? Well, a BMM and Annihilator Mage will then have the same stat spread


I Overlord I

You're forging a indigent idea around the fact that two particular builds would have the same stat points, thats quite an improper argument.
DEX needs to be changed to not influence melee and magic attacks. pet/guests as well. The sooner an update rolls out, the better

< Message edited by Warren. -- 2/14/2019 4:03:47 >
Post #: 142
2/14/2019 4:07:45   
I Overlord I
Member

No, it's not. Now, if you outright refuse to acknowledge that BMM and AM having the same stat distribution is an issue (or at least notably odd), then I see no reason to discuss this any further with you, specifically, because we're clearly not going to get anywhere.

< Message edited by I Overlord I -- 2/14/2019 4:14:40 >
AQ  Post #: 143
2/14/2019 4:25:06   
Warren.
Member
 
quote:

but rendering DEX as impotent as END decidedly isn't the way to go.


actually DEX does have a major role and thats with ranged weapons fyi

< Message edited by Warren. -- 2/14/2019 4:29:45 >
Post #: 144
2/14/2019 4:33:16   
CH4OT1C!
Member

You're arguing based on rangers being warriors-in denial, but not that each sub-build of mage you mentioned is a mage. Your logic is flawed.

Put it another way, if non-100 proc rangers are just warriors-in-denial, why bother having non-100 proc ranged weapons at all? You're amounting ranged weapons to Melee weapons but "just a different damage type" when that is clearly not the case.
AQ  Post #: 145
2/14/2019 4:56:07   
I Overlord I
Member

quote:

actually DEX does have a major role and thats with ranged weapons fyi

Not, uh, damage-wise, but of course you don't care about that because it doesn't affect you, personally. Man, that mage/warrior privilege sure must be nice.

quote:

You're arguing based on rangers being warriors-in denial, but not that each sub-build of mage you mentioned is a mage.

How on earth did you arrive at that conclusion from my post? The obvious implication of me calling AM a "specialist mage" is that BMM is also a subset of mage, albeit a generalist one (which is true). But by all means, continue to conveniently ignore the actual crux of my argument: that is, a less focused mage (BMM) shouldn't be as accurate as a focused mage (AM).
AQ  Post #: 146
2/14/2019 4:58:56   
Warren.
Member
 
quote:

Non-100% proc. "rangers" have always been warriors-in-denial,


again, a indigent idea. A player with ranged weapons is using different weapons usually more accurate and less damaging. Not acknowledging the differences is surprising.


< Message edited by Warren. -- 2/14/2019 5:50:51 >
Post #: 147
2/14/2019 5:02:45   
I Overlord I
Member

Nah, spears with a -3 BtH lean (for example) are almost as commonplace as spears with a positive lean nowadays. If anything, most melee/magic weapons (primarily swords) are more accurate. They're also more damaging because they tend to have the best MCs reserved for them, especially if they can toggle between melee and magic mode, but that's a whole another discussion entirely.

< Message edited by I Overlord I -- 2/14/2019 5:09:10 >
AQ  Post #: 148
2/14/2019 13:23:56   
Andlu
Member

Since when two different builds can't have the same stat spread?

Also, rangers are their own build, whether you like it or not. Warriors in denial? I've never seen any warriors using FD armors or 100% proc weapons after all.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 149
2/14/2019 14:38:11   
CH4OT1C!
Member

quote:

I Overlord I said:
How on earth did you arrive at that conclusion from my post? The obvious implication of me calling AM a "specialist mage" is that BMM is also a subset of mage, albeit a generalist one (which is true). But by all means, continue to conveniently ignore the actual crux of my argument: that is, a less focused mage (BMM) shouldn't be as accurate as a focused mage (AM).

...because I'm not ignoring it? I'm comparing your point to another build (whether you choose to accept that or not) to demonstrate its glaring flaws.

Let me ask you something simple: What rationale do you have for justifying Annihilator/Beastmage requiring separate stat builds, but not Warrior/Ranger?
before an answer of "because ranger is a warrior-in-denial, I respond with, what makes Annihilator/Beastmage different?


AQ  Post #: 150
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