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Cheiftain's Ironthorn: the elephant in the room

 
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1/14/2019 18:37:01   
Lineolata
Member
 

Chieftain's Ironthorn gives *1.5 damage to anything that isn't a spell or "other", in exchange for -10 bth. This is pretty clearly unbalanced, but it's been so vital to warrior playstyles for so long that no one has wanted to touch it, staff included. With the broad rebalancing going on, it feels like now might finally be the proper time to bring this up. I feel like after the dust has settled and a new balance has been found CiT might do better as a toggleable berserk status shield, or a STR drive shield.
AQ DF  Post #: 1
1/14/2019 18:39:36   
PlayMyTrapCard
Member

Seeing CIT updated to becoming a shield with a similar ability to Grakma Harbinger's -15.3 bth lean berserk status would be amazing. it would stop being such a broken crutch of an item and be something with proper drawbacks for its bonuses.

We're currently in a very big state of change for this game and now would be the perfect time to take a look at this crutch of an item
Post #: 2
1/14/2019 18:46:55   
Dreiko Shadrack
Member

Very much agreed with this.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 3
1/14/2019 18:49:14   
Thor
Member

I think it would be very reasonable to turn it into a toggleable beserker shield, as it makes sense with its original purpose, being a shield you use for when you want to deal damage knowing you can heavily miss but deal insane damage now sadly that we have gotten a lot more BTH (19 instead of what we had back then when it was the hit a lot of miss and take damage shield). It would be good to return to those standards but with a balanced effect, keeping it to its roots but putting it up to current standards as Lineolata said. I think this truely would be the way to handle CIT instead of leaving us allowed to use an OP item because warriors were so weak by themselves basically.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 4
1/14/2019 18:55:32   
J9408
Member

A berserk shield sounds nice. It matches with the location it is bought in.
Post #: 5
1/14/2019 18:58:37   
CH4OT1C!
Member

It's unique and sounds balanced, whereas the old shield isn't. Sounds like a good idea to me
AQ  Post #: 6
1/14/2019 19:00:48   
AliceShiki
Member

I think it would be a nice moment to revamp it I guess? Giving Berserker lean to the player by default as a free bonus, having a +STR toggle as the MC and probably having a Melee lean resistance or something~
AQ  Post #: 7
1/14/2019 19:07:53   
ateras360
Member

Im definitely behind this change 100%
Also an art update for CIT wouldn't hurt either.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 8
1/14/2019 19:12:30   
LUPUL LUNATIC
Member
 

A Better Berserker Lean it needs that only affects Melee/Ranged attacks so no more MAGIC! And also STR drive
AQ  Post #: 9
1/14/2019 19:15:22   
Muchiha
Member

I am fully supportive of a Shield that can grant us the "Berserk" status effect, and I feel that should ever CIT be updated, it would be the perfect item to have it on in terms of theme and niche.

Also, would there be a way for Berserk effects to be stacked? Please and thank you

< Message edited by Muchiha -- 1/14/2019 19:43:09 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 10
1/14/2019 20:46:48   
Phlox Lover
Member

No art update thanks, it's beautiful :D
Post #: 11
1/14/2019 20:51:21   
Aura Knight
Member

It doesn't need an art update.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 12
1/15/2019 8:34:08   
I Overlord I
Member

Provided it's updated to have level-appropriate tiers and possibly MC'd, I'd be completely fine with it having no M/R/M or % resists at all in order to put all of its "points" into a "Berserk" lean reminiscent of Grakma Warhorn. And the MC (if it has one) could go into either BtH or 5% additional damage on top of the lean, idk. Though we'd have to first determine whether or not it should stack with the GW.

Also, yeah, please don't touch the art. It has aged rather well.

quote:

A Better Berserker Lean it needs that only affects Melee/Ranged attacks so no more MAGIC!

Yeah, no. A built-in STR drive would be cool, though (would also fit thematically).

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AQ  Post #: 13
1/15/2019 10:14:35   
Relinfearous
Member

It would be lovely to see it changed soon.
AQ  Post #: 14
1/15/2019 10:45:56   
LUPUL LUNATIC
Member
 

quote:

Yeah, no. A built-in STR drive would be cool, though (would also fit thematically).


Yeha no, current CIT doesnt affect spells so neither should the revamped one with a Berserker lean.
AQ  Post #: 15
1/15/2019 10:53:06   
Sir Cloud
Member

quote:

A Better Berserker Lean it needs that only affects Melee/Ranged attacks so no more MAGIC!

Like I Overlord I, I second the "Yeah, no" sentiment. CIT should work for mages too since they already do 25% less damage with weapons to begin with. It's an assumed 20-turn model/single-player game and Mages can't use spells after only 3-4 casts, so they'll need to use a weapon for damage afterwards. CIT being exclusive to warriors, not a good move at all.


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AQ  Post #: 16
1/15/2019 11:30:37   
LUPUL LUNATIC
Member
 

I dont think my opinion matters that much for what should be tuned for builds, because Bloodzerker was supposed to be only for Warrior <like Bloodmages counterpart> and it didnt.

But i just want the no spells affected to preserve at least the current CIT functionality as of now,which means a bigger compensation for normal attacks and weapon specials which fits exactly like butter with the Berserker Class.
AQ  Post #: 17
1/15/2019 11:37:53   
I Overlord I
Member

quote:

Yeha no, current CIT doesnt affect spells so neither should the revamped one with a Berserker lean.

That's not entirely fair, but I wasn't talking about spells anyway. I was talking about (magic) auto-attacks. Your post made it seem like you were including those for exclusion as well...

quote:

Bloodzerker was supposed to be only for Warrior <like Bloodmages counterpart> and it didnt.

Yeah, and Bloodmage armors can boost SPells and Bloodmage blades have a melee toggle. What's your point?
AQ  Post #: 18
1/15/2019 11:41:17   
LUPUL LUNATIC
Member
 

quote:

Yeah, and Bloodmage armors can boost SPells and Bloodmage blades have a melee toggle. What's your point?


Point was Bloodzerker armor also boosts magic weapon attacks passively just like how Bloodmages boost all spells or SPells, point was using the armor skill which is very obvious.Armor skill using shoulda lock attacks to Melee/Ranged.

Anyway its derailing the subject, the no spells point is a FAIR point that needs to be considered.
AQ  Post #: 19
1/15/2019 12:28:51   
Phlox Lover
Member

Well an easier fix to the shield would probably be to just make it lean appropriate...

-40 bth for 85/45*1.05 damage ;)

(is a joke)

But seriously I think that you could have a "click to activate", so it can function as a good earth shield (-26%), but by clicking it you enable that modality of berserk....

Doesn't really seem to be a problem. If all the shield did would shift your lean that wouldn't be a problem.

13/18/8 M/R/M, -26% earth, is appropriate for a PLvl153 item. Shield causes you to have a permanent Berserk, following what @PlayMyTrapCard said. -15.3 bth for 22% bonus damage. MC = +5% damage.

< Message edited by Phlox Lover -- 1/15/2019 12:57:14 >
Post #: 20
1/15/2019 12:41:46   
I Overlord I
Member

But the lean would likely affect skills (like CIT does currently), which are already cheaper, yet stronger, for warriors/rangers. I agree that non-mages should be brought up to parity, but not like this.

< Message edited by I Overlord I -- 1/15/2019 12:46:39 >
AQ  Post #: 21
1/15/2019 13:20:16   
Thor
Member

quote:

-15.3 bth for 22% bonus damage. MC = +5% damage

Uhh, this is a bit UP, look at grakma misc the damage should be good and also the shield should be level locked so we don't run into the same problem as now, having lvl 150s use a lvl 100 or whatever shield because the berserker -bth is lower at lower level tiers. High damage for high -bth and only warrior/ranger it can be debatable if it should buff skills though? I think it should but not by as much as it is with just melee/ranged ATTACKS.


Instead of the 5% mc, why not let a STR drive be implimented as the MC? so it's mainly a str based shield even when not using the beserker effect, then you can turn it on to do a heavy chunk of damage then turn it off again maybe-

And sure, making it stack wouldn't be too bad, as long as the -bth was semi harsh otherwise it becomes stupidly OP


< Message edited by Thor -- 1/15/2019 13:28:39 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 22
1/15/2019 13:30:19   
LUPUL LUNATIC
Member
 

I think the MC should be very obvious a STR drive skill because Warriors are really lacking it instead of just +5% damage MC.For a permanent item and iconic one that is.
And we can all agree on "Berserk" effects , could be an unique one that gets a Bonus for having BerserkerClassLevels that would actually be a reason for having a Class title as Warrior at end-game.
AQ  Post #: 23
1/15/2019 13:48:09   
AliceShiki
Member

It could also have a free trigger based on your class I guess? Something like...

+3 BTH if your class is Warrior/Knight/Berserker; -3 BTH if your class is Mage/Wizard/Archmage.

... Or if staff really felt like being nice, it could be...

+6 BTH if your class is Berserker, +3 BTH if Warrior/Knight; -3 BTH if Mage, -6 BTH if Wizard/Archmage.


I mean, it would be a nice throwback to the days when it did have a trigger based on Berserker class, and it would fit the fact its intended for warriors and stuff~

... That, and I'm personally fond of items that have triggers based on class (especially with downtriggers for other classes), since they give a reason to have an active class at top level~
AQ  Post #: 24
1/15/2019 14:14:00   
I Overlord I
Member

Attempting to exclude mages from being able to use the one "true" offensive shield in the game (a shield that you're also trying to get a STR drive on as if the exclusion weren't bad enough on its own) is one of the greasiest things I've ever seen. Yikes.
AQ  Post #: 25
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