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=DF= March 8th Design Notes: Nieboheim Update and Balance Changes!

 
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3/8/2019 21:00:21   
Silver
Member

quote:


Verlyrus:

Nieboheim Update and Balance Changes!

Hey there, heroes!

A couple of new shops are now available in Nieboheim's Forum!

Check out a new house shop, with new Nieboheim and Pelekoa themed houses and items available!

A new barber shop with a bunch of fancy new hairstyles is also now open. Zbylut might have his peculiarities, but rest assured all hair operations are perfectly safe!



Head over to The Forum of Nieboheim to find these two new shops!




And now for some balance changes!

First up, Necromancer. Necro got hit a little bit too hard by its nerfs and recent balance changes. It's only recieving a couple of small buffs, but it should be something!

...• Fear Ward
......• These changes make Fear Ward more reliable and consistent, while avoiding an overpowered uptime.
.........• Applies 180 B/P/D, up from 140.
.........• Duration increased to 3 turns, up from 2 turns.
.........• Cooldown increased to 6 turns, up from 4 turns.

...• Life Tap
......• Life Tap is now usable more often, and heals slightly more.
.........• Heals 15% Max HP total, up from 14% Max HP.
.........• Cooldown reduced to 6 turns, down from 9 turns.

Next, we have some big changes to Soulweaver. It had unparalled defense, as well as a large burst and the situational ability to finish off most enemies under 15% health. These changes are intended to make Soulweaver more generalized, boosting offense while reducing some overbearing defensive options.

...• Soul Aegis
......• The uptime on the Avoidance shield was insanely high.
.........• Cooldown on BaltAegis increased to 10 turns, up from 6.
.........• Cooldown on Base Aegis increased to 5 turns, up from 3.

...• Valour Impact
.........• Baltael version Crit bonus on attack increased to 100, up from 50
.........• Non Baltael version total damage increased by 50%.

...• Concentration
......• Crit bonus increased to 200, up from 20.

...• Sealing Slash
......• Basically infinite 30% damage reduction was insane.
.........• Boost effect reduced to -15, down from -30.

...• Repentance
......• DoT damage increased to 100% weapon damage, up from 33%.
......• Base damage increased by 10% per hit.
......• MP cost increased to 60, up from 40.

...• Purge
......• MP cost increased to 30, up from 15.

...• Soul Slice
......• Soul Slice was a little too powerful against bosses, but not really useful otherwise. These changes bring it more in line with other "instant kill" skills.
......• Threshold for Annihilation increased to 50%, up from 15%
......• Annihilation can only finish off enemies with Max HP less than half of your Max HP
......• If Annihilation fails, now applies Soul Torn, a 300% DoT for one turn.
......• Both Soul Torn and Annihilation now require you to hit your enemy to take effect.

...• Soul Burst
......• Now always tries to apply stun alongside mana burn.
......• Stun effect reduced to 1 turn, down from 2 turns.
......• Cooldown increased to 6 turns, up from 4 turns.

...• Soul Synch
......• BaltSynch previously did not require meditation to use. As a result, Baltael Soulweaver also missed out on the Calm and Inner Peace Boosts, in exchange for a massive burst. With the changes to other offensive skills, BaltSynch no longer needs to be the only burst skill.
.........• Removed "I'm here" notification on BaltSynch
.........• BaltSynch now requires Meditation/Inner Peace.
.........• BaltSynch damage increased by 25% per hit.
.........• Normal FullSynch damage increased by 35% per hit.
.........• Calm and Inner Peace Boost buff decreased to 20%, down from 30%.

Finally, Master Soulweaver failed to stand apart from Baltael Soulweaver. These following changes attempt to differentiate Master Soulweaver somewhat, although the classes still play fairly similarly.

...• Soul Aegis
......• A more powerful shield than Soulweaver's, but less uptime.
.........• Cooldown decreased to 6, down from 8.
.........• MP cost increased to 25, up from 15.

...• Valour Impact
...• As Master Soulweaver does not have Concentration, Valour Impact is now a guaranteed crit.
...• Crit bonus on attack increased to 200, up from 50.
...• MP cost increased to 25, up from 20.

...• Meditation
......• MP heal increased to 15% of Max MP, up from 10%.

...• Soul Seal
......• Now requires the attack to hit the enemy to applies effects.

...• Reckoning
......• Damage increased by 7% base damage per hit.

...• Repentance
......• DoT Damage increased to 100%, up from 33%.
......• Damage increased by 10% of base damage per hit.
......• MP cost increased to 60, up from 40.
......• Now requires you to hit the enemy to apply the DoT.

...• Purge
......• MP cost increased to 30, up from 15.

...• Soul Banish
......• Threshold for Soul Banish increased to 50%, up from 15%.
......• Soul Banish can only finish off enemies with Max HP less than half of your Max HP
......• You now have to hit the enemy to apply Soul Banished (including the -Bonus effect)

...• Soul Vacuum
......• Always tries to apply the Boost reduction effect, along with the stun.

...• Remorse
......• Cooldown reduced to 1, down from 3.
......• MP cost increased to 40, up from 25.

That's all for class changes this week! Let us know what you think on the forums and on Twitter. As always, your feedback is valuable!

Epoch now has new art visible when equipping the Corrupted Doom Cassette! Please note that skill changes and effects are not complete yet, and this update is only visual! SKILL CHANGES AND EFFECTS ARE COMING SOON!







Some minor bug fixes and changes:




That's all for this week! We know it's not as major of a release as some might hope, but we have big plans on the horizon, and this week allowed us to tie up some loose ends (and also recover from the insanity of last week's release!)




Have feedback about this week's release and balance changes or the game in general? Want to discuss all things DragonFable?

Join the discussion on the official forums!

Want to play DragonFable without using an internet browser?

Check out the Artix Games Launcher!


Follow us on Twitter for sneak peeks and updates (and feel free to tweet us your fan art and feedback too!)

Verlyrus Twitter

Tomix Twitter


Tags: Verlyrus


Tagged! ~Peachii

< Message edited by Silver -- 3/9/2019 8:38:18 >
Post #: 1
3/8/2019 21:31:15   
TFS
Member

So BSW's burst has gotten a huge buff. It comes at the expense of some of the defense, as well as crazy turn 1 damage, but autocrit Baltsynch with +Boost is... insane. You're still going to be wiping the floor with inn bosses, you'll just need a little bit more preparation/setup before you can go crazy. BSW is now even stronger offensively, just not quite as braindead to use. I really like this rebalance.
DF  Post #: 2
3/8/2019 21:48:20   
abbc de
Member

For the Autokill part, so for the Annihilation to work, lets say I have a max HP of 2800, does that mean that I can only auto-kill a monster with a max HP of 1400, or can I bring a monsters HP say from 10k to 1400HP and then auto-kill?
Post #: 3
3/8/2019 21:51:50   
Pelly2500
Member

I agree with TFS, BSW is still great but much less brainless. Concentration has gone from a literally useless move to a semi loopable 100% crit boost. An soul synch is no longer just a click this wherever possible move since its not a bad idea to hold onto your meditation boost. I'm also happy they buffed MSW since it has been overshadowed by its older brother to a huge extent, and although I don't think it quite matches BSW it's nice to see it getting some love
DF AQW  Post #: 4
3/8/2019 22:06:11   
Alm Nullamors
Member

quote:

For the Autokill part, so for the Annihilation to work, lets say I have a max HP of 2800, does that mean that I can only auto-kill a monster with a max HP of 1400, or can I bring a monsters HP say from 10k to 1400HP and then auto-kill?

It's almost the first case. The Autokill can only happen when their max HP is less than half of your max HP. Reading that to the letter means they'd need a max of 1399 in your example, as it says nothing about being equal to your max.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 5
3/8/2019 22:15:12   
blowthemandown
Member
 

Am I reading this right? The re-balance was to give a buff to freaking Soulweaver of all things?
DF  Post #: 6
3/8/2019 22:37:58   
steambin96
Member

I like the soulweaver and mastersoulweaver rebalance but I feel that necro is getting worse and worse. It's already bad that necro uses b/p/d which can be bypassed with crits and can be trivialized by hard hitting foes, but increasing the downtime where necro is unprotected from 2 (potentially 1 with terror) to 4 turns? No amount of life steal from life tap will counteract that. And if I'm not mistaken you can't loop the new fear ward and dark intent.

< Message edited by steambin96 -- 3/9/2019 0:26:18 >
Post #: 7
3/8/2019 22:52:19   
LurkBlackSmith
Member

A small release that comes with bug fixes. that's fine. While the on the boredom side a mini cut-scene of the new barber dancing next week?

< Message edited by LurkBlackSmith -- 3/8/2019 22:58:52 >
DF  Post #: 8
3/8/2019 22:54:15   
Kurtz96
Member

I never rely on OHK moves but I am confused as too what the point of any OHK move now.

Annihilation only works on enemies who have less than half your max HP, which means it is only useful for enemies with less than 1500 HP. These enemies don't need 1 hit kill moves since you can just nuke them.
So Annihilation went from useless against normal monsters and good against bosses to being completely useless.

What is the point of the move then? Isn't this patch about making more soulweaver moves useful?

< Message edited by Kurtz96 -- 3/8/2019 22:55:01 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 9
3/9/2019 0:44:27   
abbc de
Member

Hmmm as I'm testing the changes on Master Soulweaver, I noticed that after using the "Soul Vacuum" skill about 100 times (literally) to test on the easiest Undead Crawlers, I have not gotten a single stun from the skill. I know that it's only a 40% chance to stun, but still. It seems to me like the stun has been removed/not working properly. If it's been removed, was this an intentional change? Maybe the description for the update of this skill should be updated. But hey, it could also just be the RNG gods not agreeing with me today, but it would if this is given a second look. Thanks!

@Bluu Sure, Soul Slice isn't helpful to insta-kill bosses anymore, but you do get a DoT with it, so its not completely useless. It does ~300-400 damage for me, which is nowhere near what it could do before, but it at least still does damage.

Posts merged. Please do not double post, as it is considered spam. ~Gingkage

< Message edited by Gingkage -- 3/9/2019 10:56:54 >
Post #: 10
3/9/2019 1:08:14   
shrike
Member

I am very disappointed that the "I'm here" popup is gone. Aegis is the only person who's ever been here for me, and now even that has been taken away.
Post #: 11
3/9/2019 1:13:41   
GammaCavy
Member

So, any thoughts on what corrupted Doom Epoch looks like?
DF  Post #: 12
3/9/2019 1:23:04   
Ultima29
Member

Is there anywhere in-game that explains the intrinsics of each class? Or are the forum pages for the classes where the more elaborate skill explanations are?
Post #: 13
3/9/2019 1:51:33   
TFS
Member

MSW is a bit better now, but not really a game-changer. Lowered cooldown on the shield is really nice, though.

yay
DF  Post #: 14
3/9/2019 1:55:52   
GammaCavy
Member

I decided to stick with my Edelia house instead of either of the nutso archeologist's houses, but a tapestry of Peloka now adorns the walls. It really is beautiful. The SW changes are nice, and I'll try necro in the morning.
DF  Post #: 15
3/9/2019 2:33:07   
GreyCat
Member

I appreciate that necromancer is being made a bit better after the nerfs. Are you going to fix shroud at some point so it heals again though? It used to be one of my favorite necromancer abilities because of the unique way that it healed me while also protecting me against enemies that were restricted to a single element, so I was pretty disappointed to find that all it does now is massively decrease the damage. Even if you have to balance it out by increasing the cooldown above 30, it would be really nice to have shroud back the way it was.
DF  Post #: 16
3/9/2019 4:18:20   
Malarik the Caster
Member

First off, liking the new barber updates. Cosmetics in RPG are the most important thing, IMO. It doesn't matter if I can't kill a C tier Inn Boss, so long as I
git rekt in style!

On to more serious matters, I'm not sure if the balancing is entirely balanced. BSW was the only thing that let most of us get anywhere against the Inn, and
without it I doubt some of us would even have gotten past bits of the story (When and Caitiff flashbacks intensify). I get that it was Uber tier of powerful, and
that it makes the game a complete breeze, but this may have been a little much. Playing around with it, it is still powerful, buts its overall output is now
significantly less. The damage from BaltSync is effectively halved, the crit from Valour Impact is nice, but almost useless at higher levels. Concentration seems
like a nice buff, but again, almost useless unless under specific conditions. The survivability nerfs have also turned it into significantly more of a glass canon,
which goes against the burst idea of the class.

I get that to make up for this, MSW was buffed, but even so, it doesn't feel right. Especially with the mana costs now. MSW feels like it belongs in an odd
mana-restore build, but that isn't possible cause the claws block weapon specials (finaly a use for Warlic's staff). I dunno overall what MSW is meant to be
now, maybe someone smarter than me has figured out its potential applications.

Overall, I reckon the classes just need some definition as to their purposes. Give BSW its insta nuke, as its shield is gone. It deserves the level of power, especially
now. MSW can be more defensive, just give it the shield spam that BSW once had, along with the newly balanced skills, it should act like the part of BSW that was
split. In a way, the old BSW can be split between MSW and new BSW, with MSW being the defensive control type, and BSW being the glass canon.

Also of note, the one thing I find odd is that these classes are the ones to be targetted for nerfing, when Epoch is clearly broken. It is still consistently taking down
every boss in the Inn, and with relative ease. BSW could only do so much in the Inn before the nerfs. I might be in the minority of terrible players, but BSW isn't
the uber masterclass that its made out to be. That spot belongs to epoch.
Post #: 17
3/9/2019 4:43:06   
Shiny_Underpants
Member

quote:

only to get a 50% chance to nuke.

50% threshold means their health, not a percentage chance. It clearly didn't have a 15% activation chance before, so how could the activation chance be 'raised' to 50%?

I agree that it's useless though, it's also weirdly specific. However, soul torn gives it a 400% damage, with 300%independant of debuffs to boost. Also gives dex just slightly more use.
For Exaltia Elementals and Tea for Three Skeletons (both are opponents BSW offered unrivalled speed at), it might be rather useful, but half hp is just that bit too low.
DF MQ  Post #: 18
3/9/2019 4:47:46   
Loewe
Member
 

So I have been play-testing the new MSW and it appears that Soul Seal, Soul Vaccum and Soul Burst all end 1 turn earlier than they used to. This is particularly interesting for Soul Burst, because while the -All bonus ends 1 turn early, the mana burn lasts for the usual duration. I didn't see a nerf to these skills on design notes so I was wondering if someone can confirm this for me.
Post #: 19
3/9/2019 5:32:01   
steambin96
Member

quote:

Necro’s shield is actually better. 180 BPD is nothing to laugh at and a 3 turn shield with a 6 turn CD is better than a 2 turn shield with a 4 turn CD, because not only is the uptime similar (new one is marginally better) you have more turns until the cooldown wears off, allowing you to make full use of as many skills as you can within that interval, and serves to create a less restrictive playstyle. The lifesteal buff isn’t massive, but a small 1% increase counts, I guess. Necro strictly got better.


You're probably right, it could be that I'm just too used to the old rotation that I'm comfortable with, would prefer an extra turn over the increased +40 b/p/d though. BTW Necro Paragon armor is still using the non updated skills. This isn't intentional is it?
Post #: 20
3/9/2019 5:40:26   
Shiny_Underpants
Member

@Bluu
So... it's okay when Epoch can do it, but if BSW can complete most Inn challenges, it should be nerfed. And the people who relied on it need to 'git gud' so they aren't 'spoonfed'. And anyone voicing concern over locking things enjoyed by casuals/storyline players off is part of a group of 'us bad players'.
quote:

Now, I’m primarily an Epoch user myself

Funny thing, some of my best friends are Epoch users, but I still think it should still be nerfed so it can't yeet A.A.R.G.H. so effectively. DF isn't meant to be pay to win.


MSW had pretty close sustained damage output to BSW, and its damage output hasn't been nerfed at all, which is interesting. MSW's lesser defense made it a much more difficult option to play than BSW for Inn challenges, however, and has always been the least braindead class to play due to its very difficult to synchronize cooldowns. Decreased shield cooldown might actually make it a viable option against Weird Duo without NSTB...

In regards to power and classes, there are two issues at play.

One being that some classes are clearly much more powerful at their purpose than others-- this means that challenges must be balanced around the stronger classes, and the weaker ones are un-usable (more or less). This is annoying because there's just a penalty for trying out more of the gameplay.

The other is that Inn challenges tend to be designed around a specific kind of setup. For example, due to the high damage and guest scaling, harder challenges are easier to complete without guests; this meant BSW had a clear advantage to MSW, since MSW's debuffs make it the ideal class for protecting guests, while offering consistent damage. Other times there are niches that are filled; EPL's damage reflection is stronger than Pirate's, and its other skills are much better, so Pirate isn't useful.

Balancing challenges around individual classes and their mechanics is problematic for several reasons, but the general bosses only require one to min-max in offensive or defensive strategies that happen to circumvent whatever gimmick is in place. Eg. Dominion was a fun, well-balanced challenge, but only for a couple of (NDC) classes (Ranger or BSW). It can be completed with others, but there's basically a penalty for that. It's notable that MSW's advantage came to the fore in strategies against Yllmar, a boss so absurd that neither offense or defense min-maxing as NDC would ever work, so stunlock and guest protection became viable. Usually it's just slow. in fact, BSW was still an objectively better option for farming Yllmar due to being nearly twice as fast as MSW, with only a few probable guaranteed fails due to the gaps in its stunlock.
Stunlocking has also been the target of some nerfs, restricting the available strategies even further towards damage and defense min/maxing, which is a little sad for players without SWoT's stun-abuse.
DF MQ  Post #: 21
3/9/2019 6:30:25   
King azwan
Member

Well that sucks for Soulweaver, farming for exp is gonna be slower now. After all that damn farming for the Peculiar visor.

edit: I guess its not all bad since I have DoomKnight V1. SoulWeaver will now take at least 4 hits in the Challenge quest for farming but DV1 will take 1 or 2.

< Message edited by King azwan -- 3/9/2019 6:40:12 >
DF AQW  Post #: 22
3/9/2019 8:50:28   
Silver
Member

quote:

....so what are the changes? There doesn't appear to be any "following changes" listed, leading me to believe that no changes have been made? Or was there a supposed to be link that led to the changes? I don't understand.

Yeah sorry about that, I fixed it (even though bluu clarified anyway :P)

The changes are nice and all but I'm still gonna miss being able to farm aeris battlespire trophies and AARGH as fast as I could have with the old BSW :/
Post #: 23
3/9/2019 10:41:18   
Pelly2500
Member

quote:

Either way, the one thing everyone agrees upon is the nerfs that Epoch requires for the sake of game balance

I think there is potential for an an interesting discussion about to what extent (Eternal) Epoch should be nerfed. To my knowledge no other calender class has been nerfed outside of changes from the play-test version, so it would certainly be a new concept.

We all know that Eternal Epoch excels and bosses but is to be blunt, bad at taking out lower health enemies, so let's focus on the boss killing potential. I feel like it's overpowered-ness is often overstated and relies heavily on the crutch of the NSTB trinket which does complement Epoch well but is universal to all classes, as without it, the first turns of the battle are spent being largely exposed to all manner of enemy attacks.

Even with the trinket you still feel very exposed until you can get your big time shift out. Most inn bosses will have no trouble taking you out during this vulnerable period and the ones that can't easily take you out are usually beatable by a lot of other classes. Against some the harder fights and in particular the duos, getting to the twelve momentum time shift can require some luck with random dodges, food or luck with the baby dragon.

Furthermore, Epoch is much more tactical than BSW was, although I'm unsure yet how much more the latter is now, Epoch's defence is less reliable than BSW's, past or present as the former is susceptible to enemies with naturally high BtH. Epoch's defences also require some setup with the exception of fade which is more of a last resort move rather than a safety net, due to it's one turn duration.

Of course I have only looked at Epoch's negatives which are vastly outnumbered by it's positives. I'm not denying the fact that it has incredible utility as a boss killer and is a stellar class, and I'm not against the idea of a nerf. I'm just saying that, in my opinion, it's not quite as perfect as some people make it out to be.
DF AQW  Post #: 24
3/9/2019 12:23:56   
  Verlyrus
DragonFable Boxcat


Follow-up update is live! Thanks for the continued feedback!

https://www.dragonfable.com/gamedesignnotes/balance-followup-7331
AQ MQ  Post #: 25
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